Fic Talk > General Discussion
The Writing Thread
nicksgal:
So some writing questions for today! We've kind of discussed aspects of them, but I thought it would be fun to hear about everyone's process! I promise ahead of time that this is not meant to be a shameless plug, I just figured it would be easier to quote myself than rewrite it.
Over in my updates thread, I've been taking some time to post that there's updates (which, if you lived through any of my hiatuses when I was actually writing things, woah, consistent updates!), but also doing some "fireside chat" type things that are basically this thread, but PBox/PNecklace specific background info and thoughts that pop into my head as I edit/write. This week, I posted a small novel about the writing and planning process (please find some excerpts below as it very specifically focused on one tiny aspect of world building, rather than details on my overall process):
--- Quote from: nicksgal on January 06, 2021, 11:45:18 PM ---I have a novel about my novel entitled "Demon Powers and Plantsing" below (linked above). Enjoy!
An excerpt: Pantsing is more fun, but I've found the more epic you're envisioning a story, especially if it has complicated non-real world elements (like magic), the more you have to plan and world build. Like any weird and minute detail in the world, you'd better have an answer. Go ahead, in the replies, ask me anything and if it's not likely to be a spoiler, I'll answer it. I consider this space half an update thread and half an intimate fireside chat with your gal anyway, so interact with me as much as you want.
A second excerpt: If you haven't yet noticed, if I take the time to doodle something for a story, it has my full investment.
--- End quote ---
So the planning questions are as follows:
1. When an idea strikes, what's the first thing you do?
2. Are there any things you consider integral to your planning process? For example, Julie mentioned earlier in the thread that she often makes a banner when she's in the planning stages.
3. If you use outlines, how faithful are you to outlines? How detailed are your outlines? If you write first and plan later, how do you keep track of your ideas? Anyone go between the two?
4. What's the easiest part of planning? The hardest?
5. How far into the planning process do you know that an idea is definitely something you'll finish writing? Or the opposite, when can you tell if it should be scrapped?
6. Are there any clear signs to you that you're fully invested in an idea, either early or late?
7. Do you have a specific point where you decide you'll post something or do you just post everything you write?
Feel free to add others, but these are the questions I thought of off the top of my head!
RokofAges75:
First of all, kudos to you for the time and effort you put into world-building. As someone who mostly writes realistic fiction, that is not something I have much experience with, and it sounds daunting.
I love the process questions!
1. When an idea strikes, what's the first thing you do?
I think about it until it's coherent enough to write down. Then I start an outline, which is usually just a Google Doc with a synopsis of the idea in the beginning. Putting it into words helps me make sure it makes sense and I'll remember it later, since I sometimes sit on ideas for years before starting to write them.
2. Are there any things you consider integral to your planning process? Julie mentioned earlier in the thread that she always makes a banner when she's in the planning stages.
I have to have at least an acceptable working title before I can start writing the story. If any of the important characters are original, I have to know their names and some basic information about them. I don't always make a banner, but sometimes it does help motivate me.
3. If you use outlines, how faithful are you to outlines? How detailed are your outlines? If you write first and plan later, how do you keep track of your ideas? Anyone go between the two?
I am pretty faithful to sticking to the general plot I've planned out, but the specifics of how to get from Point A to Point B to Point C sometimes change. How detailed my outlines are depend on how complicated the plot is and how much research is required. My most detailed outlines have been for medical dramas and stories with multiple intertwining storylines to keep track of. In those types of stories, my outlines tend to take on the form of timelines with events tied to specific dates, whereas a story like the one I'm writing now (Bethlehem) is more just a sequence of events written in order.
4. What's the easiest part of planning? The hardest?
My ideas tend to be plot-driven, so I think the hardest part for me is figuring out the characters' motivation for acting in certain ways. Why would he/she do this? How can I get them to this point? Or, on the flip side, if I already have certain characters in mind (like, I want to write a bromantic A-Rok story), creating a plot for those characters. (What will happen in my bromantic A-Rok story?) I also seem to spend a lot of time thinking about titles and character names. Oddly enough, I think the easier part or the part I enjoy the most is researching, as I figure out the setting and fill in details of the plot.
5. How far into the planning process do you know that an idea is definitely something you'll finish writing? Or the opposite, when can you tell if it should be scrapped?
I don't know until I start writing it. Even then, there have been stories I've started that went well in the beginning, and then I hit a wall with them. If I can get about a third of the way through and it's going well, then I'm pretty confident I'll finish it. Up until that point, who knows. I don't usually scrap ideas unless I realize the premise is flawed and unfixable, or I get a similar but better idea. Otherwise they just stay in my idea folder for future reference because I never know when I'll get a burst of inspiration and come back to them.
6. Are there any clear signs to you that you're fully invested in an idea, either early or late?
I know I'm invested when I can't stop thinking about the story and when I care about the characters and what happens to them.
7. Do you have a specific point where you decide you'll post something or do you just post everything you write?
These days I typically wait till I have around 10 chapters written to start posting. By that point in the story, I have a better sense of how it's going and how likely I am to continue it. It also allows me to post a chapter a week and stay far enough ahead that I'm not as likely to catch up to myself and run out of chapters to post.
nicksgal:
--- Quote from: RokofAges75 on January 07, 2021, 05:55:57 PM ---First of all, kudos to you for the time and effort you put into world-building. As someone who mostly writes realistic fiction, that is not something I have much experience with, and it sounds daunting.
I love the process questions!
--- End quote ---
Some of it's really fun and some of it's pretty bleh. It's definitely time consuming. I always have trouble with maps and building layouts, so I wish I knew autocad or something like that, because I think being able to virtually poke at it in 3D would help me more than staring at squiggles on a piece of paper. There's a tiny bit of world building involved in realistic fiction, but it's more scrutinizing google maps for your settings (there are no beaches in Orlando, for instance) or making sure something can happen realistically in your story, like how long does it take Nick to get to Kevin's house in LA if he's laying on the couch in his house in Vegas when they discuss it? (it's not five minutes). I hope no one does those two things anymore, ha.
I thought you might! After posting my diatribe, I figured that maybe everyone else would enjoy a deep dive of their own!
--- Quote from: RokofAges75 on January 07, 2021, 05:55:57 PM ---1. When an idea strikes, what's the first thing you do?
I think about it until it's coherent enough to write down.
since I sometimes sit on ideas for years before starting to write them.
--- End quote ---
If an idea is not coherent enough to write down yet, how do you keep track of it? Do you have a mental list or do you have a physical document called "my writing ideas" or equivalent? Does every idea you have get to the outline stage?
--- Quote from: RokofAges75 on January 07, 2021, 05:55:57 PM ---2. Are there any things you consider integral to your planning process? Julie mentioned earlier in the thread that she always makes a banner when she's in the planning stages.
I don't always make a banner, but sometimes it does help motivate me.
--- End quote ---
You know I love hyperbole. I switched "always" to "often" in the original post.
--- Quote from: RokofAges75 on January 07, 2021, 05:55:57 PM ---4. What's the easiest part of planning? The hardest?
My ideas tend to be plot-driven, so I think the hardest part for me is figuring out the characters' motivation for acting in certain ways. Why would he/she do this? How can I get them to this point?
Oddly enough, I think the easier part or the part I enjoy the most is researching, as I figure out the setting and fill in details of the plot.
--- End quote ---
Throw things at them until they break? Do you have any sort of planning notes that help keep track of characters and their motivations throughout a story?
I have a question I have been dying to ask (but it seemed oddly specific in a general "questions thread) ever since I had to find the word "sternoclavicul ar" to really explain the size and placement of something. Medical research, how daunting is that? Do you look for accredited sources? How do you keep track of it all? Do you have this ever expanding document of medical jargon? Are youtube videos helpful? Do you get first person accounts? Write a novel about this for me, basically, because I'm intrigued.
--- Quote from: RokofAges75 on January 07, 2021, 05:55:57 PM ---5. How far into the planning process do you know that an idea is definitely something you'll finish writing? Or the opposite, when can you tell if it should be scrapped?
I don't know until I start writing it. Even then, there have been stories I've started that went well in the beginning, and then I hit a wall with them. If I can get about a third of the way through and it's going well, then I'm pretty confident I'll finish it.
Otherwise they just stay in my idea folder for future reference because I never know when I'll get a burst of inspiration and come back to them.
--- End quote ---
Have you ever posted a story that you didn't finish? Not recently with your backlog of course, but in the past? I'm notorious for it, but I was wracking my brain trying to think of one for you and can't.
How often do those bursts of inspiration happen?
nicksgal:
I like to write mine after someone else answers because I am selfish and want to read what other people have to say more than I want to talk about my ideas, haha. Also it was really time for me to go to bed last night, but this was in my brain after my update process.
1. When an idea strikes, what's the first thing you do?
I usually make a list of major questions I have about the idea (e.g. "Why x?" "What happens if z?" "Why is Character B w?") and ideas on the overall theme. After that, I decide what types of characters need to be in the story, what their motivations might be, and how those motivations might change over time. Then I probably just start writing. In the past I would try to start at the beginning, but just writing what's interesting has actually been pretty helpful to me, because then I get to the heart of why I like the idea right away and then I can figure out how to build to the point earlier on than if I started writing from chapter one, page one, paragraph one, word one.
2. Are there any things you consider integral to your planning process? For example, Julie mentioned earlier in the thread that she often makes a banner when she's in the planning stages.
Characters and character arcs. I usually care more about the characters than the plot anyway, so I figure if they're solid, they can move the plot along pretty effortlessly on my part. Since I like to start writing and then plan along the way, I guess world building typically becomes integral to me (since it's a big part of my niche in fantasy land), but in the beginning, it's never really about that. I do have documents that talk about details like topography, timelines, legends, likely aspects of language, etcetera. Though I'm not full on Tolkien over here making up languages. I'm 100% Team "English for Your Convenience and Mine."
3. If you use outlines, how faithful are you to outlines? How detailed are your outlines? If you write first and plan later, how do you keep track of your ideas? Anyone go between the two?
I'm the worst at outlines. I don't like to use them, probably because mine are never very detailed. I think I said it once, but Kevin's first fighting chapter in PBox was definitely "Kevin's healing power is awesome as an attack. There are plants." and I only had that after I decided that Howie, Kevin, and AJ were each going to get a chapter to show off their skills. Which is... not much of an outline? The last chapter I left on for PNecklace literally has a comment on the Chapter marker that says: "X and Z hang out. Z and B have an important conversation about _____." And I only have that because part of it's already written and these scenes almost ended up in the previous chapter until what happened in the previous chapter was more interesting for longer than I thought it would take to tell that part. I definitely have pages of notes in google keep where I scribble down random things I think of, but it's only coherent for me. I think everyone else would look at it and wonder why I felt the need to write that down. Half of them read like me spitballing to myself, complete with things like "Omg, what if Nick forgot about their secret santa exchange, that would be hilarious!" or "(Hahaha, remember Sam Goody? So funny.)" It's like collaborating on the forum, but with myself.
4. What's the easiest part of planning? The hardest?
I like writing more than planning, but even if you take a "write first, plan later" approach, you still have to plan at some point as the story grows. I think characters are the easiest just because they're the part of a story I enjoy the most. If a story has a mediocre plot, but awesome characters, I can still usually get behind it. If the characters are only okay, the plot has to be really amazing for me. If they're both kind of crummy, I might hate read it while drinking haterade depending on who forced me to do so or how far I've gotten into a story when I realize it's not getting any better. The hardest is probably world building, but it can also be fun too. I love falling into a research time suck because I just love learning more about things I enjoy or learning new things. I guess, getting out of those time sucks might be the hardest part for me. That and knowing that anything I world build, I always know more than my readers, so anyone reading my stuff could see a snippet of something, but I have this whole other aspect of it that I have to plan and research and finalize because there can't be any plot holes. It's... a lot... but fun!
5. How far into the planning process do you know that an idea is definitely something you'll finish writing? Or the opposite, when can you tell if it should be scrapped?
In the past, I was pretty notorious for posting any old thing I wrote down, so I guess I never really know. It gets scrapped when I stop writing it? I think if I can clearly visualize the end, that's a point in its favor to get finished. This is the curse of pantsing, I suppose, I don't always know the end when I start writing. I usually get an end down by... chapter twenty? That sounds about right.
6. Are there any clear signs to you that you're fully invested in an idea, either early or late?
I've mentioned many times, including in the novel about my novel and the initial question post, that I'm a doodler. If I doodle a character, I will finish that story eventually. Like I have pages of old class notes where I doodled tiny, persistent PBox Nick. If I'm thinking about it enough to doodle it, it's basically permeated my brain. Hence why I can come back after a long hiatus and write a sequel.
7. Do you have a specific point where you decide you'll post something or do you just post everything you write?
I used to just post everything I ever wrote, but I think my plan from now on is that I need to be about 15-20 chapters ahead of the update because I think that will hold me more accountable and allow me to post more consistently than I had in the past.
RokofAges75:
--- Quote from: nicksgal on January 07, 2021, 06:41:03 PM ---Some of it's really fun and some of it's pretty bleh. It's definitely time consuming. I always have trouble with maps and building layouts, so I wish I knew autocad or something like that, because I think being able to virtually poke at it in 3D would help me more than staring at squiggles on a piece of paper. There's a tiny bit of world building involved in realistic fiction, but it's more scrutinizing google maps for your settings (there are no beaches in Orlando, for instance) or making sure something can happen realistically in your story, like how long does it take Nick to get to Kevin's house in LA if he's laying on the couch in his house in Vegas when they discuss it? (it's not five minutes). I hope no one does those two things anymore, ha.
--- End quote ---
Yes, absolutely, but looking something up is a lot different from making something up. Making it up requires much more creativity. I can see where making a map would be helpful. I still have a printed map of MacDill Air Force Base shoved in a drawer from when we were writing Undead; I referred to that a lot.
LOL I can forgive teenyboppers for their ignorance back in the day, but now that here are so many resources at our fingertips to quickly fact check something, there's no excuse for making those mistakes except being too lazy to look it up.
--- Quote from: nicksgal on January 07, 2021, 06:41:03 PM ---If an idea is not coherent enough to write down yet, how do you keep track of it? Do you have a mental list or do you have a physical document called "my writing ideas" or equivalent? Does every idea you have get to the outline stage?
--- End quote ---
It just kinda lives in my head until it becomes a fully formed idea or goes away, I guess LOL. The other day when Nick was tweeting about signing up for some biomedical/genetics symposium, I jokingly tweeted, "I feel like I should write a fanfic about Nick going to med school" because he always shows such enthusiasm and interest in medical innovations. And then I thought, "Hey, there could actually be a story idea in that." But that's about as far as it went, so I didn't write anything down there. If I have enough to write more than a sentence about an idea, I'll start a doc for it, which eventually turns into an outline if it sounds like something I would actually be interested in writing. I have a folder for them on Google Drive.
--- Quote from: nicksgal on January 07, 2021, 06:41:03 PM ---Do you have any sort of planning notes that help keep track of characters and their motivations throughout a story?
--- End quote ---
I kinda just work it into my outline, usually in the synopsis, if the motivation seems complex enough that I need to keep track of it. "Brian is feeling this way, so he does such and such because..." Otherwise I just think about it until it's clear in my head. With that kind of stuff, it's a lot like lesson planning - I can take time to write it all down, but once I do, I don't usually look at it when it's time to apply it because it's in my head. But writing it down does come in handy for those times when I step away from an idea and come back to it after months or years and need a reminder of what I was thinking LOL.
--- Quote from: nicksgal on January 07, 2021, 06:41:03 PM ---I have a question I have been dying to ask (but it seemed oddly specific in a general "questions thread) ever since I had to find the word "sternoclavicul ar" to really explain the size and placement of something. Medical research, how daunting is that? Do you look for accredited sources? How do you keep track of it all? Do you have this ever expanding document of medical jargon? Are youtube videos helpful? Do you get first person accounts? Write a novel about this for me, basically, because I'm intrigued.
--- End quote ---
I actually love doing medical research. I find it interesting, and it's a fun challenge to see how in-depth I can get and how much medical jargon I can decipher LOL. My favorite website for that is Medscape (emedicine.meds cape.com) because it's catered toward professionals and has really detailed information on just about any condition, procedure, drug, etc. I have to google words to fully comprehend it sometimes, but it has helped me out a lot over the years. I also end up reading a lot of studies from medical journals. YouTube videos are also helpful for describing procedures or getting personal accounts. I've used blogs for the personal experience piece too. I keep track of it all with bookmarks. I have subfolders upon subfolders of bookmarks, divided by story and topic within that story. Sometimes I take notes or copy/paste info into my outlines too.
I found a really cool tool not too long ago that lets you view 3D, interactive anatomy of the entire human body. You can zoom in, peel back layers, rotate the body in any direction, etc. If you ever need to get a better understanding of anatomy for the purpose of writing an injury or something, it could come in handy. It's also just cool to play with if you like that kind of stuff. https://www.biodigital.com/ You have to click on Individuals and then use your Google account, but it's free.
--- Quote from: nicksgal on January 07, 2021, 06:41:03 PM ---Have you ever posted a story that you didn't finish? Not recently with your backlog of course, but in the past? I'm notorious for it, but I was wracking my brain trying to think of one for you and can't.
How often do those bursts of inspiration happen?
--- End quote ---
Yeah, I have a few unfinished ones. In the last ten years, there have only been two - a Nick/Kevin suspense/drama called Guilty Roads and a BSB/Harry Potter crossover called Harry Potter and the Half-Blood Backstreet Boy. Guilty Roads started out strong, and then I got derailed about a month into it by another story idea that demanded to be written (Curtain Call) and never quite got back into my groove. I haven't completely given up on it yet, but it's been years since I've actually written anything for it either. The Harry Potter story was more of a side project, and then Cursed Child kinda ruined it for me.
I don't usually get bursts of inspiration for other stories when I'm in the process of working on one, unless it's a brand new idea, but I try to keep several ideas on hand so I have some options already outlined when I finish a story. Half the time I end up getting a new idea and don't write any of the old ones, but having too many ideas is better than not having any.
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