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[RokofAges75]

I'm definitely a planner.  I don't plan out every detail in advance, but I do typically outline or at least put a summary of the general plot - beginning, middle, and end - on paper before I start writing the actual story.  How detailed my outline gets depends on the story.

The one I'm writing now, The Road to Bethlehem, is a pretty straightforwar d series of events that take place over just a few days, so its outline is short.  It's mainly just a summary of the events and some research notes on the setting.  I haven't planned it out chapter by chapter; I've just been writing it one scene at a time, always thinking ahead to what will happen next and which guy I will focus on, since I'm trying to keep it balanced between all five boys' perspectives.

With stories that have more intricate plots or time-sensitive details to keep track of, I tend to keep a more detailed outline.  For example, Secrets of the Heart had two separate but interwoven storylines that took place months apart and were told out of order, so I did outline that one chapter by chapter to help me figure out the best order to tell it in.  Curtain Call had a detailed timeline for an outline because I was working in real life events from the This Is Us tour with fictional events and had to keep track of when everything happened.

I do change my outlines as I get new ideas, but I don't usually change the basic plot points I planned out at the beginning.  It's more just adding details that fill in the gaps to help get me from the beginning to the middle to the end.  If I get a great idea for far down the line, I'll write it down in my outline so I don't forget, but I don't write actual scenes out of order.

My ideas tend to be plot-based, so I focus on the plot first.  Then I work on any fictional characters I'll need.  I usually already know which Boy(s) the story will be about based on the plot.

[nicksgal]

I'm team plantser over here. I'll usually have a vague idea of things that I write down, major answers to major ideas basically and then I just write. I think I have more fun pantsing because unexpected things often happen, but when I know that something is going to be major down the line or will keep coming up, I go hardcore planner: maps, character charts, outlines on everything from plot to character growth arcs to tropes that appear in different parts of the story, whole documents of research references. I usually have the beginning down, end is kind of vague, middle gets kind of squiggly, then I usually figure out the end for sure around chapter 15? That sounds about right. I learned with PBox the first time that it's better for me to settle into a story before fully deciding the end, because sometimes someone annoying will tell you that they're not interested in the story ending that way and have other ideas for their journey... (*cough* Nick *cough* Still love you!)

Curtain Call had a detailed timeline for an outline because I was working in real life events from the This Is Us tour with fictional events and had to keep track of when everything happened.

I've never written an "on tour" story for the sheer fear that being really dedicated to the real timeline gives me. I'd rather be vague about it.

I made a major change in my outline today after reading about Gypsydoodle and the chips, haha. I was laughing along and then went, "OMG! This is way better! Get this lightening out of your head and on paper!" Then hurriedly and excitedly wrote it all down. I used to go chapter by chapter, but these days I've found it's more motivating for me if I write what's interesting to me and then fill in the gaps, even if it's just a little dialogue exchange that comes later than where I'm at.

As time goes, I find that initially my plots tend to react to the characters more than the characters react to the plots, so the direction I've gone now is "where are these characters at in their growth and what does the plot need to do for them to get from A to B?" Then go back and get them reacting to the events of the plot.

[nicksgal]

The one I'm writing now, The Road to Bethlehem, is a pretty straightforwar d series of events that take place over just a few days, so its outline is short.  It's mainly just a summary of the events and some research notes on the setting.  I haven't planned it out chapter by chapter; I've just been writing it one scene at a time, always thinking ahead to what will happen next and which guy I will focus on, since I'm trying to keep it balanced between all five boys' perspectives.

With stories that have more intricate plots or time-sensitive details to keep track of, I tend to keep a more detailed outline.  For example, Secrets of the Heart had two separate but interwoven storylines that took place months apart and were told out of order, so I did outline that one chapter by chapter to help me figure out the best order to tell it in.

Do you find it hard to keep perspectives balanced? And do they tend to lean toward anyone in particular in any of your writing?

And that sounds like a tough, but fun challenge for Secrets of the Heart! Like This Is Us (the show, not the album)!

[RokofAges75]

I've never written an "on tour" story for the sheer fear that being really dedicated to the real timeline gives me. I'd rather be vague about it.

It definitely required a lot of research, but it was a fun challenge for that story to see how much I could make my fictional storyline fit with real events.  I wouldn't want to do that all the time though.

As time goes, I find that initially my plots tend to react to the characters more than the characters react to the plots, so the direction I've gone now is "where are these characters at in their growth and what does the plot need to do for them to get from A to B?" Then go back and get them reacting to the events of the plot.

That is probably a good way to plan.  Sometimes I wish my stories were more character-driven.  I tend to either gently guide my characters in the direction I want them to go or hurl obstacles at them until they're forced to go that way LOL.  They don't usually get to decide.

Do you find it hard to keep perspectives balanced? And do they tend to lean toward anyone in particular in any of your writing?

And that sounds like a tough, but fun challenge for Secrets of the Heart! Like This Is Us (the show, not the album)!

I definitely tend to focus most on Nick and Brian.  I've written stories where I alternate between different characters' point of view in a set way, or like in Song for the Undead, we made sure each character got a chapter within each ten-chapter arc, but in Bethlehem, I've just been trying to decide which perspective works best for each particular scene.  So it's not perfectly balanced, but each boy has had his moment in the spotlight.

Aww, This Is Us.  Yeah, Secrets was a little like the pilot of that show, where you don't realize the storylines are taking place in totally different time periods or how they'll connect until the end.  It was a hard story to write, but I'm happy with how it turned out.

[nicksgal]

That is probably a good way to plan.  Sometimes I wish my stories were more character-driven.  I tend to either gently guide my characters in the direction I want them to go or hurl obstacles at them until they're forced to go that way LOL.  They don't usually get to decide.

My life is basically Nick telling me what he wants to do and over time I have learned that he will never shut up about it, so I just go with it at this point, haha. At least PBox Nick is that way regardless of the obstacles I throw at him, persistent little guy that he is. I think I trend character-based way now more than I did in the past because the only stories I've ever committed to finishing and/or finished were the ones that ended up being more about the characters than the plot. Ones where I was like "This plot is good!" are pretty much abandoned forever. Sorry everyone who liked anything I wrote that wasn't PBox, possibly Gobosei, and some original fiction you've never seen. If you want to know what was going to happen, I can probably summarize. I have long ago lost anything that had to do with any of them if they're not those two, so summary is what you'll get.

[nicksgal]

It definitely required a lot of research, but it was a fun challenge for that story to see how much I could make my fictional storyline fit with real events.  I wouldn't want to do that all the time though.

Aww, This Is Us.  Yeah, Secrets was a little like the pilot of that show, where you don't realize the storylines are taking place in totally different time periods or how they'll connect until the end.  It was a hard story to write, but I'm happy with how it turned out.

It seems like you've run the gambit on challenging yourself with your writing (which I feel like I already knew, but I'm channeling Mare in the Featured Story threads apparently). What was your favorite challenge to yourself? What was your least favorite? Is there something you haven't tried yet that you wanted to try?

Obviously all questions are open to everyone even though I addressed this one at Julie in particular.

[nicksgal]

This isn't a question, but Julie you've destroyed me. I can't write or read "erratically" anymore without laughing so hard and I apparently like to use it with a decent amount of regularity from chapter to chapter.

[nicksgal]

Aw, a guest is reading my old PBox thread. Hey guest, go read my new update thread instead if you're interested in PBox. It has fun behind the scenes tidbits. Or this thread is good too.

[RokofAges75]

My life is basically Nick telling me what he wants to do and over time I have learned that he will never shut up about it, so I just go with it at this point, haha. At least PBox Nick is that way regardless of the obstacles I throw at him, persistent little guy that he is. I think I trend character-based way now more than I did in the past because the only stories I've ever committed to finishing and/or finished were the ones that ended up being more about the characters than the plot. Ones where I was like "This plot is good!" are pretty much abandoned forever. Sorry everyone who liked anything I wrote that wasn't PBox, possibly Gobosei, and some original fiction you've never seen. If you want to know what was going to happen, I can probably summarize. I have long ago lost anything that had to do with any of them if they're not those two, so summary is what you'll get.

That makes sense.  It's easier to stick with stories where you're really invested in the characters, which may not always be the case with a plot-driven story.

It seems like you've run the gambit on challenging yourself with your writing (which I feel like I already knew, but I'm channeling Mare in the Featured Story threads apparently). What was your favorite challenge to yourself? What was your least favorite? Is there something you haven't tried yet that you wanted to try?

Obviously all questions are open to everyone even though I addressed this one at Julie in particular.

Aw, thanks!  My favorite was probably seeing if I could write a BSB slash and take it seriously.  I started with a short story and had fun with it, so I expanded it into an 80-chapter novel.  It helped me understand the appeal of slash and made me more open-minded to reading it.

I'm not sure that I have a least favorite.  Something I probably should try at some point is writing an original fiction.  It's been a long time since I've written anything that wasn't BSB fanfic.  It's a comfortable niche to write in because it comes with already created "characters" and a built-in audience of readers, but there's no respect in writing fanfic (especially real person fanfic) outside of the fandom it's for.  Maybe someday I'll get an idea for an original novel and branch out.  But in the meantime, I'm content to keep writing BSB fic.

What about you?  Same questions, back at ya!

This isn't a question, but Julie you've destroyed me. I can't write or read "erratically" anymore with laughing so hard and I apparently like to use it with a decent amount of regularity from chapter to chapter.

It is a great word!  Once you realize it has a much different meaning from "erotically" LOL.

[nicksgal]

That makes sense.  It's easier to stick with stories where you're really invested in the characters, which may not always be the case with a plot-driven story.

I feel like it's that way when I'm reading something too. I'll care a lot more about it if I'm invested in the characters.

Aw, thanks!  My favorite was probably seeing if I could write a BSB slash and take it seriously.  I started with a short story and had fun with it, so I expanded it into an 80-chapter novel.  It helped me understand the appeal of slash and made me more open-minded to reading it.

Woah! 80 chapters? I think I'm most impressed by the fact that you turned a short story into a novel! If I go into something to write a short story, even if it was fun, I wrap it up in a bow and call it a day.

Something I probably should try at some point is writing an original fiction.

I know you always have projects lined up, but since you still enjoy fanfic a worthwhile exercise might be to take a more AU story you've written where it's not as heavily wrapped up in "these are for sure the Backstreet Boys" (which I have questions to ask people about this, but it's probably a topic for a different time so I don't derail myself) and try to change the more BSB aspects of it. I know Mare did this with one of her stories... The one with the tree on the cover and they're all brothers and the sister died? The title is escaping me right now. And I think Rose did it once as well, or started to anyway. Then it would still be kind of BSB-esque but you could toy around with character building more.

TIt is a great word!  Once you realize it has a much different meaning from "erotically" LOL.

Oh I mean I use it a lot because it's a great word! But all I think of now is "erotically." I was reading a snippet in my snippets document where the exact line is: “They all said when I’m not calm, my powers will probably be erratic.” And I cracked up so hard because in my head it's definitely: “They all said when I’m not calm, my powers will probably be erotic.” Which the implications of are just hilarious! (especially in context) Maybe now that this is out there somewhere, it will be less funny as time goes on... Probably not!

[nicksgal]

What about you?  Same questions, back at ya!

I poked around for a second while I pondered this instead of staring at this reply box.

I think I've tried just about everything at one point or another just to try it out with varying degrees of success, especially in the post PBox days where I would push fantasy anything as far away as possible just from being exhausted mentally. I've mostly enjoyed this editing adventure. It's been fun to go back to something and try to make it better.  What else... Slash was an interesting adventure. I'd read any of them as long as the story was good (I'm not really into pwp for any pairings), but I don't think I would try writing another one. I don't know. Those ones come top of mind as things I either didn't really do in the past or said I would never try.

I'm having a tough time thinking of a least favorite since I think there's value in trying anything different in your writing. I guess a very long time ago, I tried writing a fanfic that was basically "the history of the Backstreet Boys, but a fanfic" and I hated keeping track of real life events in detail, so I stopped writing it. So maybe that? And thank goodness I did, because otherwise I would still be writing it?

I guess writing a full sex scene is the only thing I haven't done yet as I mentioned earlier, so I guess that's my challenge to myself this year. Whether that version will be the one that ends up in the story is up in the air though.

[RokofAges75]

Woah! 80 chapters? I think I'm most impressed by the fact that you turned a short story into a novel! If I go into something to write a short story, even if it was fun, I wrap it up in a bow and call it a day.

Yep!  I had an idea going in to the short story for how it could become this whole other thing, but I decided to write it as a standalone story first and see how it went before committing to a whole novel.  The short story ended up just being the back story for the premise of the novel.

I know you always have projects lined up, but since you still enjoy fanfic a worthwhile exercise might be to take a more AU story you've written where it's not as heavily wrapped up in "these are for sure the Backstreet Boys" (which I have questions to ask people about this, but it's probably a topic for a different time so I don't derail myself) and try to change the more BSB aspects of it. I know Mare did this with one of her stories... The one with the tree on the cover and they're all brothers and the sister died? The title is escaping me right now. And I think Rose did it once as well, or started to anyway. Then it would still be kind of BSB-esque but you could toy around with character building more.

This is basically what I did with Secrets of the Heart, which is an AU.  I started that story around the time I was thinking of trying rewrite Broken as an original YA novel, which never happened.  I wrote Secrets in a way that it would be easy to make it work as an OF if I changed the characters' names.  Brian and AJ are the main characters, but they don't know each other.  Brian is a high school music teacher, and AJ runs a record shop, so there's still the music element there, but nothing boybandy about it.  The other three are in it in very minor roles - I think Kevin is still Brian's cousin, Nick has a small part as a substitute teacher at Brian's school, and Howie is AJ's friend who works in his shop.  Although I tried to make Brian and AJ still keep a lot of their same personality traits, I don't think they would be recognizable to a reader who didn't know this was a BSB fanfic if I changed their names.  They each have a fictional significant other who also play an important role in the story.  I know it would still need a ton of editing if I ever tried to get it published, which is not my plan at this point in time, but I do think that's a good way to bridge the gap between fanfic and original fiction.

Mel's Tree is Mare's novel you're thinking of!

Oh I mean I use it a lot because it's a great word! But all I think of now is "erotically." I was reading a snippet in my snippets document where the exact line is: “They all said when I’m not calm, my powers will probably be erratic.” And I cracked up so hard because in my head it's definitely: “They all said when I’m not calm, my powers will probably be erotic.” Which the implications of are just hilarious! (especially in context) Maybe now that this is out there somewhere, it will be less funny as time goes on... Probably not!

If that was Nick's line, I could see him having erotic powers LOL.

[nicksgal]

Yep!  I had an idea going in to the short story for how it could become this whole other thing, but I decided to write it as a standalone story first and see how it went before committing to a whole novel.  The short story ended up just being the back story for the premise of the novel.

That's fun, I love it! What a fun little extra to have for your website.

This is basically what I did with Secrets of the Heart, which is an AU.  I started that story around the time I was thinking of trying rewrite Broken as an original YA novel, which never happened.  I wrote Secrets in a way that it would be easy to make it work as an OF if I changed the characters' names. I know it would still need a ton of editing if I ever tried to get it published, which is not my plan at this point in time, but I do think that's a good way to bridge the gap between fanfic and original fiction.

Before I keep going, can leg choppage be in a YA novel? What pushes it out of YA rating?

Now, back on topic! That story sounds interesting based on this description. Will add it to my peruse list. See the names/descriptions bit has been something I've been tossing around in my head. Because it seems to me that you could keep a name if you changed the description (but not both and probably Brian over AJ) or you could keep a description over a name, but probably only one, maybe two of them. If you have this story where there's five main characters (less so with this one since the other three sound like more minor additions) and they look like BSB and seem like BSB and especially if they were in a band together, but they weren't BSB in the story... I feel like the Boys could take that as defamation of character at the very least, and possibly escalate all the way up to copyright infringement. Which seems just not that worth it. But then how do you un-BSB it enough but not too much that it's an entirely different story? Ugh. A Pandora's Box I wasn't ready to open (pun intended).

Mel's Tree is Mare's novel you're thinking of!

If that was Nick's line, I could see him having erotic powers LOL.

Thank you, yes! I thought Tree was in the title.

Hahahaha. You know, I can't say because spoilers, but I think plenty of people assumed actual Nick did over the years.

[RokofAges75]

I poked around for a second while I pondered this instead of staring at this reply box.

I think I've tried just about everything at one point or another just to try it out with varying degrees of success, especially in the post PBox days where I would push fantasy anything as far away as possible just from being exhausted mentally. I've mostly enjoyed this editing adventure. It's been fun to go back to something and try to make it better.  What else... Slash was an interesting adventure. I'd read any of them as long as the story was good (I'm not really into pwp for any pairings), but I don't think I would try writing another one. I don't know. Those ones come top of mind as things I either didn't really do in the past or said I would never try.

I'm having a tough time thinking of a least favorite since I think there's value in trying anything different in your writing. I guess a very long time ago, I tried writing a fanfic that was basically "the history of the Backstreet Boys, but a fanfic" and I hated keeping track of real life events in detail, so I stopped writing it. So maybe that? And thank goodness I did, because otherwise I would still be writing it?

I guess writing a full sex scene is the only thing I haven't done yet as I mentioned earlier, so I guess that's my challenge to myself this year. Whether that version will be the one that ends up in the story is up in the air though.

Kudos to you for this editing adventure you've embarked on!  The only time I've gone back to a story that was already posted online and drastically revised it (more actual rewriting than just fixing typos and other tiny mistakes) was with Code Blue, and that was a terrible experience.  I may have made the story a bit better, but it also killed my inspiration for it, which never really recovered.  The fact that it was a collaboration probably made it harder to keep the momentum going, but I vowed I would never do that again with a fanfic.  It would be different if I was trying to get a manuscript published, as I know there's a ton of significant editing required with that.

I feel the same way about writing slash.  It was fun because it was something different for me, but I feel like I put everything I had into that one.  It would take a really good (and much different) idea for me to write another.

I also agree that there's value in trying anything new, even if it doesn't pan out.  Experimenting helps us grow and gives us more experience to draw on in the future.  A history of BSB fanfic sounds cool, but I could see how that would get overwhelming!

Good luck with your sex scene!

[RokofAges75]

Before I keep going, can leg choppage be in a YA novel? What pushes it out of YA rating?

Sure!  It wasn't like "Saw" leg choppage LOL; he lost his leg to bone cancer.  Nothing inappropriate about that.  Actually, Lurlene McDaniel, who was my favorite YA author as a tween, published a novel during that same time period when I was thinking of rewriting Broken about a swimmer who had his leg amputated due to cancer and later committed suicide.  Broken at least had a happy ending LOL.

Editing to add I also read a fantastic YA novel last year that I almost forgot about called "The Running Dream" that was about a track star who loses her leg after a car accident and learns to run again with a prosthesis.  It took me right back to researching for Broken.  But yeah, choppage can and has been done in YA fiction.

Now, back on topic! That story sounds interesting based on this description. Will add it to my peruse list. See the names/descriptions bit has been something I've been tossing around in my head. Because it seems to me that you could keep a name if you changed the description (but not both and probably Brian over AJ) or you could keep a description over a name, but probably only one, maybe two of them. If you have this story where there's five main characters (less so with this one since the other three sound like more minor additions) and they look like BSB and seem like BSB and especially if they were in a band together, but they weren't BSB in the story... I feel like the Boys could take that as defamation of character at the very least, and possibly escalate all the way up to copyright infringement. Which seems just not that worth it. But then how do you un-BSB it enough but not too much that it's an entirely different story? Ugh. A Pandora's Box I wasn't ready to open (pun intended).

I think you could keep the characters in a band if you changed the names.  A boyband might still be too obvious, but a rock band or something would be less recognizable.  Personality traits and even physical descriptions would be less obvious, especially to readers who weren't BSB fans and didn't know it was originally written as a fanfic.  I think it'd be much easier to de-Backstreetize a story that doesn't revolve around them being famous and touring and stuff, so a fantasy might be more doable.  Is that what you're hoping to do with PBox?