Fic Talk > General Discussion
The Writing Thread: Orlando Passaggio (aka The Writing Thread 3)
RokofAges75:
--- Quote from: nicksgal on March 21, 2021, 02:09:48 PM ---Ooh themes! Do you plan out your themes and motifs ahead of time or do they just kind of happen?
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With themes, it depends on the story. Some ideas already have an obvious theme, whereas with others, they come about as the plot and characters develop. My Brother's Keeper is one that had themes sort of built in to the idea. I don't usually plan out motifs in advance; they happen as the story progresses.
--- Quote from: nicksgal on March 21, 2021, 02:09:48 PM ---Aww. :( Glad it became living the dream again. :) I missed Kevin and I bet hot mess Nick did too! I look back on some of the things he said in regards to Kevin back then with the wisdom of age and say, "Ah, yes, there's a scared kid who feels betrayed by what he thought was a constant in his life."
But also, poor Kevin. He probably deserved more sympathy from all of us than he got.
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Aww, I did too, and I'm sure Nick and all the guys did. Nick could have used his guidance during that time, although he probably wouldn't have accepted it then. I think everything worked out the way it was meant to be. It gave Kevin a chance to start his family and rediscover the love he had for being part of a group, and it gave Howie a chance to shine and Nick a chance to grow up.
--- Quote from: nicksgal on March 21, 2021, 02:09:48 PM ---That's cool! Do you often find your research involving reading other books or is it typically "things you can find on the internet"? When you do need to read other books, do you feel like writing goes slower afterward or quicker?
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My research is typically things I can find on the internet, but sometimes I need more of an in-depth, personal account. Memoirs are good for that. In my experience, they slow my writing down, but make it stronger in the long run. I read one called "Sick Girl" about a woman's experience as a heart transplant recipient while researching for Secrets of the Heart, and it was really good. One thing I learned that I had never realized before was that when they put the new heart in, they can't reattach the nerves that connected to the old heart, so the new one is slower to respond to stimuli that would normally tell it to speed up, like exercise or being startled. It will eventually react due to adrenaline, but it's a delayed response. I never would have thought to include that detail in the story if I hadn't read the firsthand description of how it feels in that book.
--- Quote from: nicksgal on March 21, 2021, 02:09:48 PM ---Do you find yourself starting to write about things they wouldn't notice often or after you switch POV, writing about something Nick or Kevin would notice, but not both?
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I probably do both. I have so much more experience writing in third person that I'm sure it bleeds into my first person stories. I try to find a balance between my more flowery, descriptive third person prose and writing first person the way a real person would actually tell a story, which would probably make it a rambling mess. And when I write stories like these that alternate between two POVs, I'm not sure I do enough to differentiate between the two voices.
--- Quote from: nicksgal on March 21, 2021, 02:09:48 PM ---Nick would learn to build a boat, escape, and save Kevin on a harrowing high seas adventure, lol.
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Sounds like a good story to me! That, or Nick and the other could just cannibalize Kevin to stay alive after he dies. Maybe it could be a choose your own adventure!
--- Quote from: nicksgal on March 21, 2021, 02:09:48 PM ---I love 16-personalities. It's actually a tab I often have open on my phone. Taking their little mini quiz polls and reading research results is fun.
I feel like Nick and Kevin could be both of those!
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I thought the descriptions fit both of them pretty well!
--- Quote from: nicksgal on March 21, 2021, 02:09:48 PM ---lol, a Gecko is like a tiny crocodile.
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Boy likes his reptiles! LOL He also went as a Ninja Turtle on one of the cruises.
--- Quote from: nicksgal on March 21, 2021, 02:09:48 PM ---The stark white is interesting! Less busy than many banners!
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It's definitely simple. I made it a few years ago when I started the story, but I haven't felt the urge to remake it yet. I'm not really sure what else I would do that wouldn't spoil anything.
--- Quote from: nicksgal on March 21, 2021, 02:09:48 PM ---Oh, hot mess Nick. "I only do x when x" is a slippery slope! It really hits when it's AJ being disappointed. I laughed that he picked up Nick's underpants at all, lol. Also the "chafing" bit.
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Yeah, that's the kind of thing addicts say because they can't see that it's a problem. This was written before AJ came out with all the stuff last year about just how often he fell off the wagon over the years when we thought he was still sober. But he claimed to have been five years sober when Unbreakable came out, so I'm just gonna stick with that for this story.
Glad you liked the funny parts! Thanks!
RokofAges75:
--- Quote from: nicksgal on March 21, 2021, 02:35:36 PM ---The pandemic was what you needed for the survival story to click! Nothing that happened seemed too crazy and it was plausibly remote. :) I enjoyed it.
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Yeah, it gave me what the desert idea was missing - a good reason for the five of them to be in a remote location with none of their families or security or anyone else around. And the inherent craziness of 2020 made every bad thing that happened seem more believable. Thanks!
--- Quote from: nicksgal on March 21, 2021, 02:35:36 PM ---2Ge+her did it sympatheticall y! lol And you're right, they're all great in fanfics. Perhaps "the brooding one" and "the angsty one" are better combined as "the one who can be changed with love." That's all boyband archetypes are, right? Different types of boys that would be "good" romantic interests for the target demographic?
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That's true; I did think of QT. And you're right about the reason for the archetypes. There's a boy for every fan!
--- Quote from: nicksgal on March 21, 2021, 02:35:36 PM ---If only they were that inspiring! lol I changed the less consent-oriented "I'll" to the more consent oriented "I can" in the line "I can give you a boost [up this tree]?” And then I laid on the couch and watched tv instead.
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LOL Well, kudos for making sure that boost was consensual.
I have spent more time lying on the couch and watching TV this weekend than actually writing too. I made the same mistake I always used to make with Heroic Measures, when I started watching ER for "research purposes" and then get sucked into a marathon and stop writing. I started watching another old favorite of mine for "research purposes" last weekend and have since finished half of the first season and no new chapters. Fail LOL. I did finally watch Walking Dead Friday night though.
--- Quote from: nicksgal on March 21, 2021, 02:35:36 PM ---It's that little spark of care and love. :) I wish RPF was less taboo in the fanfic world. But I get it. I enjoy it more because it feels like there's more creating that gets to be done, even when the story sticks closer to "canon."
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Yeah... I get it too. I'm just glad there's a community of us who get the appeal and don't judge.
--- Quote from: nicksgal on March 21, 2021, 02:35:36 PM ---I'm the peppiest, most exuberant kind of dark, haha! I think it works both ways, people outside the writing/fanfic world would never know that we're secretly so dark and people in the writing/fanfic world would never know that we're so... fluffy (?) outside of writing. I'm going to call us well balanced, lol.
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LOL So true!
nicksgal:
--- Quote from: RokofAges75 on March 21, 2021, 04:14:43 PM ---With themes, it depends on the story. Some ideas already have an obvious theme, whereas with others, they come about as the plot and characters develop. My Brother's Keeper is one that had themes sort of built in to the idea. I don't usually plan out motifs in advance; they happen as the story progresses.
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I wanted to know so much that I asked it twice, apparently. lol I wonder if new themes will appear as you keep writing.
--- Quote from: RokofAges75 on March 21, 2021, 04:14:43 PM ---Aww, I did too, and I'm sure Nick and all the guys did. Nick could have used his guidance during that time, although he probably wouldn't have accepted it then. I think everything worked out the way it was meant to be. It gave Kevin a chance to start his family and rediscover the love he had for being part of a group, and it gave Howie a chance to shine and Nick a chance to grow up.
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He would have been too stubborn to do so! And all good points. With the bonus of Howie getting some love too.
--- Quote from: RokofAges75 on March 21, 2021, 04:14:43 PM ---My research is typically things I can find on the internet, but sometimes I need more of an in-depth, personal account. Memoirs are good for that. In my experience, they slow my writing down, but make it stronger in the long run. I read one called "Sick Girl" about a woman's experience as a heart transplant recipient while researching for Secrets of the Heart, and it was really good. One thing I learned that I had never realized before was that when they put the new heart in, they can't reattach the nerves that connected to the old heart, so the new one is slower to respond to stimuli that would normally tell it to speed up, like exercise or being startled. It will eventually react due to adrenaline, but it's a delayed response. I never would have thought to include that detail in the story if I hadn't read the firsthand description of how it feels in that book.
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I didn't know that either! That is really interesting. I wonder what kind of adverse reaction that has when exercising.
--- Quote from: RokofAges75 on March 21, 2021, 04:14:43 PM ---I probably do both. I have so much more experience writing in third person that I'm sure it bleeds into my first person stories. I try to find a balance between my more flowery, descriptive third person prose and writing first person the way a real person would actually tell a story, which would probably make it a rambling mess. And when I write stories like these that alternate between two POVs, I'm not sure I do enough to differentiate between the two voices.
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It's especially a rambling mess if Nick is really telling the story, lol! Which Boy is most likely to do flowery, descriptive third person prose in their head as they narrate their life? (In general, not necessarily Nick or Kevin specifically.)
Your Nick excerpt sounded pretty Nick. I'd say "give me a Kevin excerpt" but I understand, spoilers.
--- Quote from: RokofAges75 on March 21, 2021, 04:14:43 PM ---Sounds like a good story to me! That, or Nick and the other could just cannibalize Kevin to stay alive after he dies. Maybe it could be a choose your own adventure!
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I've secretly always wanted to write a CYOA story, but I've never really thought I could make it strong enough to carry a narrative, let alone multiple narratives.
--- Quote from: RokofAges75 on March 21, 2021, 04:14:43 PM ---Boy likes his reptiles! LOL He also went as a Ninja Turtle on one of the cruises.
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A super hero reptile, you say? I believe that.
--- Quote from: RokofAges75 on March 21, 2021, 04:14:43 PM ---It's definitely simple. I made it a few years ago when I started the story, but I haven't felt the urge to remake it yet. I'm not really sure what else I would do that wouldn't spoil anything.
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There's beauty in simplicity.
--- Quote from: RokofAges75 on March 21, 2021, 04:14:43 PM ---Yeah, that's the kind of thing addicts say because they can't see that it's a problem. This was written before AJ came out with all the stuff last year about just how often he fell off the wagon over the years when we thought he was still sober. But he claimed to have been five years sober when Unbreakable came out, so I'm just gonna stick with that for this story.
Glad you liked the funny parts! Thanks!
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I'm guilty of it, or qualifiers would be more accurate: "I only drink heavily on the weekends" is something I said a lot in my twenties.
Having known other addicts, I always assumed he actually fell off the wagon a lot, but that he didn't want to disappoint anyone by saying so. But I did like believing that he had gotten everything together and was sticking to it. I think it's fine if you stick with what he said, especially if he was hiding the "falling off" from the POV characters. Unless they caught him, they wouldn't know. I suspect AJ would worry about disappointing the other Boys a lot.
nicksgal:
--- Quote from: RokofAges75 on March 21, 2021, 04:28:37 PM ---Yeah, it gave me what the desert idea was missing - a good reason for the five of them to be in a remote location with none of their families or security or anyone else around. And the inherent craziness of 2020 made every bad thing that happened seem more believable. Thanks!
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They were escaping fans who wanted to kidnap them! lol
--- Quote from: RokofAges75 on March 21, 2021, 04:28:37 PM ---That's true; I did think of QT. And you're right about the reason for the archetypes. There's a boy for every fan!
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Unless she likes green. You can only love someone if you have the same favorite colors!
--- Quote from: RokofAges75 on March 21, 2021, 04:28:37 PM ---LOL Well, kudos for making sure that boost was consensual.
I have spent more time lying on the couch and watching TV this weekend than actually writing too. I made the same mistake I always used to make with Heroic Measures, when I started watching ER for "research purposes" and then get sucked into a marathon and stop writing. I started watching another old favorite of mine for "research purposes" last weekend and have since finished half of the first season and no new chapters. Fail LOL. I did finally watch Walking Dead Friday night though.
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haha. Can't let our hero do toxic things! Plus I figure someone who avoids being touched would probably ask other people before touching them when they're consciously thinking about it.
I've been useless today. Glad you finally watched Walking Dead. I've mostly watched basketball and did some house things. I was a little productive this morning and hopefully I can get back to that point.
Hopefully your research is going well, even if it's not productive right now.
--- Quote from: RokofAges75 on March 21, 2021, 04:28:37 PM ---Yeah... I get it too. I'm just glad there's a community of us who get the appeal and don't judge.
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Same!
nicksgal:
1. Summarize your work-in-progress in 10 words or less.
Demons save the day! Plucky Nick angsts through life!
2. Post a line from your work-in-progress with no context.
--- Quote ---“Nick…” Brian batted his eyelashes as he put his hand to his chest, stifling a laugh with his other hand.
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3. Does your work-in-progress have a title? If so, explain its significance. If not, what are you calling it for now?
Despite me calling it “PNecklace” (call it a lazy holdover from calling the first one “PBox”), it’s actually called Pandora’s Necklace. I always envisioned this second story being called “Pandora’s Necklace” because it really focused on Nick’s journey, more than anything else. Outside of their bodies, demon hearts became gemstones and Nick’s popped out as a necklace. So I guess you could call the story “Nick’s Heart,” but that seems silly in comparison.
4. Describe the setting of your work-in-progress.
A “medieval stasis" Asian-inspired fantasy world of suck.
5. Search for the word "knife" in your work-in-progress. If you find it, paste the line and explain the significance.
You know, in a “sword and sorcery” world, the word “knife” doesn’t appear at all. “Sword” (or “swords” or “sword-something”) is in it 61 times and “dagger” four times. Since “dagger” is more spiritually akin to knife, I’ll go with that one. And the question doesn’t specify that the first instance needs to be used, so I’ll go with the second, because I like it better:
--- Quote ---“That is a price of battle. We own many daggers; they are easily replaced, you are not.”
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As always, a key tenet of our heroes’ MO is that someones should not be sacrificed for somethings, even when those somethings are the goal. I hesitate to use “people” and “things” because, well… are demons people? A question to ponder… perhaps in our themes and motifs… ;)
6. Search for the word "dream" in your work-in-progress. If you find it, paste the line and explain the significance.
“Dream” (or “dreams” or “dreaming” and so on) appears 53 times so far, which is not at all surprising to me since the dichotomy of dreams and nightmares is a recurring motif in the series.
I like the next one better, but it’s less funny without the surrounding context of “other crazy things Nick has said,” so have the following:
--- Quote ---The immovable power of fate makes me call out in my dreams.
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I mostly think it’s pretty, but it does tie into a theme. Is it fate, Nick, or is it choices? Hmmm...
7. What are you most proud of?
Being able to still write it after letting the idea sit for a decade! Once I “retired,” I honestly wasn’t ever sure that I would get back into writing again, let alone finishing an idea that wasn’t even partially on paper. So, I guess thanks to the whole of the PBox series for being pushy?
8. What is your biggest challenge?
Not immediately feeling frustrated if it suddenly doesn’t go well. I think in the back of my head, I’m having nightmare flashbacks to my six-month PBox hiatus and how writing went after I finished it. I think if I had more going on besides writing in my free time, I would worry about it a lot less. But, since I don’t really have anywhere to go or anything else to do, I do worry.
9. How would you describe your writing style for your work-in-progress?
Plantsing, foreshadowing, and call-backs. Gardening? Like planting things and letting them grow for the next book.
10. How would you describe your work-in-progress' narrative style?
Limited third pov. It’s pretty Nick focused in this one, but it still switches between him and Minako like it did before and the other Boys do get their moments to shine. But Nick made it clear a long time ago that he drives this bus.
11. Which character do you have the most in common with?
12. Which character do you have the least in common with?
None of them? Howie might be the most? Howie is all of us, after all.. There’s bits of me in all of them, but no one where it’s abundantly most or least. Kevin might be the least?
13. Your characters are stranded on a deserted island? What happens?
Mass hysteria, lol. I’m kidding. Since no one is actively looking to kill them, I think they’d work together to stay alive while they figured out how to leave. I think they’d be fine? Nick would complain a lot.
14. Have you chosen birthdays for any of your characters? If so, what are they? (Exclude any Boys, because I assume their birthdays in your stories are their birthdays.)
I’d call Minako a pisces, so somewhere in the late February to early March timeframe. I don’t think I ever actually picked a birthday for her, because it never came up in the story, haha. Renee’s is some time in August. I haven’t really thought about the other two Pandoras.
15. Do you know your characters' MBTI personalities?
Even though I love MBTI, I did not! Until I took the same quiz Julie used on their behalf. (I know mine: ENFJ forever!)
I took it for Nick and started taking it for Minako, but didn’t agree with the result, so I did it again, and then I got tired of looking at it, especially after Nick got it too and they are not the same thing. Clearly I am the turbulent one, lol! Ask me later.
I also took it twice for Nick, I think because I’m so all over the place in the grand scheme of the story, but the only thing that changed was the introverted/extroverted part when I retook it. I guess the difference in growing over the course of the story? I don’t know, I’m not entirely happy with either of these choices either... I guess PBox Nick is either:
The Adventurer (ISFP): Introverted, Observant, Feeling, and Prospecting (plus turbulent)
Adventurer personalities are true artists, but not necessarily in the typical sense where they’re out painting happy little trees. Often enough though, they are perfectly capable of this. Rather, it’s that they use aesthetics, design and even their choices and actions to push the limits of social convention. Adventurers enjoy upsetting traditional expectations with experiments in beauty and behavior – chances are, they’ve expressed more than once the phrase “Don’t box me in!”
The Entertainer (ESFP): Extraverted, Observant, Feeling, and Prospecting (plus turbulent)
If anyone is to be found spontaneously breaking into song and dance, it is the Entertainer personality type. Entertainers get caught up in the excitement of the moment, and want everyone else to feel that way, too. No other personality type is as generous with their time and energy as Entertainers when it comes to encouraging others, and no other personality type does it with such irresistible style.
16. What would your characters be for Halloween?
What’s Halloween? lol This is a lazy copout on my part; they are obviously too busy fighting the forces of evil to participate in holidays. Nick would do it because Minako asked, but question every minute of it until he actually got the costume on, then he would love it. AJ would probably be Nick or Kevin, because they would hate it, then he would laugh about it with Brian.
17. Does your work-in-progress have any themes or motifs?
Hahahahahahaha ha, obviously.
Themes: What measure is a non-human?/What measure is a monster?, light versus dark (all incarnations including, but not limited to: the Holy light, light is not good, dark is not evil, the sacred dark, etcetera), Right Makes Might versus Might Makes Right, definitions, fate versus choice, the power of intangible things, sacrifices, strength in true companionship… I could go on, but I’d call a lot of these sub-themes to the big themes of how to define yourself and the world plus another I won’t say.
Motifs: light/darkness, dreams and nightmares, loneliness and togetherness… I guess juxtaposition of opposing things is a motif in and of itself.
18. What's easier, dialogue or description?
When I write interesting bits ahead of where I am currently working, I usually end up writing dialogue. So I will say dialogue. I often don’t even add “so and so said” tags unless I have a clear body language thing to convey. Who speaks what is all very clear to me.
19. Post a picture or gif that describes your work-in-progress.
This one should work! https://images.app.goo.gl/NtCi9LSyRSTVj321A
20. Post a brief excerpt.
--- Quote ---A knock sounded at the door.
He turned toward it quickly. “Uh, hang on…” He picked up a crumpled pair of jeans from the floor between the bed and the window, yanking them over each leg as he hopped toward a chair between the door and a large closet. After grabbing the gray sweatshirt slung over the arm, he pulled it over his head quickly before opening the door. “Kevin…”
The second man leaned on his door frame, his black button down shirt contrasting against the dark wood. Kevin narrowed his thick eyebrows against his green eyes as he matched the tone of his voice. “Nick…”
“You’re doing house calls again?” Nick crossed his arms.
He smiled and patted Nick’s shoulder. “Just making sure you’re awake and not staring at that necklace again.”
Nick hung his head.
Kevin lips quirked into a frown. “Well, you’re awake at least. Step one.”
“It… I… That weird dream again…” Nick put his hand to his head, but kept his arms crossed.
Kevin mirrored Nick and crossed his arms as well. “Do you want to talk to someone about it?”
“No, I’ll just sound crazy repeating myself…” Nick shook his head.
“Nick…”
He raised his hands in mock defense. “You keep suggesting that I talk to someone other than you all, you obviously also think I sound crazy… ‘I keep having this dream where I scream for someone I don’t know.’ ‘This weird necklace I had a death grip on when I woke up four months ago… Also a ring!’ ‘No other updates, still don’t know where anything came from.’ Did I forget a crazy sounding thing I’ve said?”
Kevin frowned. “You know I’m just worried about you…”
“Yeah, because it sounds--”
“Because it’s bothering you.” He smirked. “You’ve done plenty of things over the years that seem ‘crazy,’ I’m used to it.”
Nick crossed his arms again and crumpled into himself. “Gee… thanks…”
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