Fic Talk > General Discussion
The Writing Thread: Orlando Passaggio (aka The Writing Thread 3)
RokofAges75:
--- Quote from: nicksgal on March 11, 2021, 09:37:46 PM ---It’s harder to tell with fantasy, I feel like, but I’m sure there’s stories out there that are similar, I just haven’t come across them myself. I mean Gobosei is the Backstreet Project with a fantasy flip instead of sci-fi. I'm sure plenty of people have done BSB in college stories at one point too. I guess the important thing is to make sure that you're putting your own spins and self into it. I’ll be honest, I came across so few BSB fantasies, that at one point, I just kind of stopped trying to look for them and decided to focus on writing them instead to keep our genres diverse.
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I do think fantasy lends itself to originality just by the nature of the genre, especially within a real person fandom. Not that people don't borrow ideas from each other in fantasy because of course they can and do. But I bet there's also a lot of ideas that haven't been done, at least not in BSB fanfic.
--- Quote from: nicksgal on March 11, 2021, 09:37:46 PM ---I had the great gift of brevity when I started out in middle school, but that was only because the plots were so minimal and the characters were really underdeveloped . Once I got more practice with developing a narrative, I lost the gift of brevity. However, now my writing is more interesting and nuanced. I cannot read my early work; it is very cringey.
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Same. But I think it's definitely better to have a fully developed plot and characters and descriptive prose in an epic novel than a bare bones novella with no depth. Was PBox your breakout story in terms of learning to fully develop a narrative? If not, what's the first story you don't consider cringey?
--- Quote from: nicksgal on March 11, 2021, 09:37:46 PM ---Writing-wise, I guess I've committed to my little fantastical corner of the BSB fanfic-verse; gotta keep it alive!
I write what's interesting to me, which is definitely not what's popular here.
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Absolutely! I love the diversity in our fandom. Although certain genres seem to be more popular than others, there are BSB fics of every genre out there - something for everyone! AO3 could use some more of that diversity, so you do you! Also, it's much less fun to write something that's not interesting to you.
RokofAges75:
--- Quote from: nicksgal on March 11, 2021, 09:38:16 PM ---But in the past, I also enjoyed when people said they were “sucked back into the story and world” of PBox after being away from it. It made me feel like all of my hard world world building was worthwhile for the readers. :)
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It does sound like you've put a lot of time into world-building, so I'm sure that praise was well-deserved!
--- Quote from: nicksgal on March 11, 2021, 09:38:16 PM ---I think they’ve all given me trouble at one point or another, but I generally find myself struggling with Kevin overall, because so much of how I see Kevin is in how he relates to the others and not just his Kevin-ness. I think I should maybe join this Kevin trend to challenge myself to focus on Kevin.
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Yes, come on board the Kevin train!
--- Quote from: nicksgal on March 11, 2021, 09:38:16 PM ---The chattyness of Brian when he’s given the proper lead did surprise me. So, basically I am warning all of you that the “Nick is Brian’s guardian angel” story might be the most verbose thing you’ve ever read.
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Yay chatty Brian! Bring it!
--- Quote from: nicksgal on March 11, 2021, 09:38:16 PM ---AC is my one true love for the community. I wish it were still popping, but these things happen.
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Me too, but at least there are still a few of us keeping it alive.
--- Quote from: nicksgal on March 11, 2021, 09:38:16 PM ---I loved being part of this community back in the day and leaving it may have been part of my journey as a lost twenty-something, so I’m happy I’m back (as I’ve mentioned many times).
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I'm glad you're back, too! Did you ever consider writing any other fiction while you were away from this fandom? Like original fic or fanfic for other fandoms?
--- Quote from: nicksgal on March 11, 2021, 09:45:45 PM ---7. If you had to pick one scene to describe your entire portfolio to a stranger, which would you pick? Would you be willing to share it with us?
I initially started answering these yesterday and decided not to because I did not have an answer to this question! There’s a couple in PNecklace that I would feel comfortable representing my portfolio, but do not want to post yet (mainly because… they’re not posted yet at all). So, if we could go for a whole chapter, I feel inclined to recommend PBox’s “Chapter Forty-Four: Disciple” or possibly “Chapter Thirty-Two: Abyss.” If I had to limit it to a scene, I would probably toss out the last scene from “Chapter Thirty: To The Castle” that begins with the line "The storm was blinding, a furious blizzard of ice and snow." It was too long to post here in its entirety, but here's some descriptions of the titular castle from that scene for your enjoyment:
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Great description! This definitely captures your world-building prowess. And I agree, that was the question that hardest to answer for me, too.
nicksgal:
--- Quote from: RokofAges75 on March 12, 2021, 10:04:19 PM ---I do think fantasy lends itself to originality just by the nature of the genre, especially within a real person fandom. Not that people don't borrow ideas from each other in fantasy because of course they can and do. But I bet there's also a lot of ideas that haven't been done, at least not in BSB fanfic.
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A lot of the originality in BSB fanfic fantasy probably stems from there being less of it. Sci fi is likely similar in our fandom. It's probably harder to be original with fantasy elements in fanfic fandoms that lend themselves to fantasy elements based on the source material.
Borrowing elements from other people is part of why Elves are a standard fantasy race these days (and why a lot of them are LOTR style elves) or why vaguely European Medieval stasis is a common setting for High Fantasy type stories, but also why tropes like "Our Demons are Different" exist. Obviously I picked that one on purpose, lol.
--- Quote from: RokofAges75 on March 12, 2021, 10:04:19 PM ---Same. But I think it's definitely better to have a fully developed plot and characters and descriptive prose in an epic novel than a bare bones novella with no depth. Was PBox your breakout story in terms of learning to fully develop a narrative? If not, what's the first story you don't consider cringey?
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Oh, of course it's better to have fully developed plot and characters with descriptive prose! I will never argue that with you, haha.
This timeline is complicated because I would say Gobosei or an OF I've had popping in my head since 2003ish because they both technically started prior to PBox, but were not originally conceived to be novels. They later became novels, but it was after I started writing PBox. I guess despite not being novels, they did give me practice conceiving and developing character and plot arcs, researching, world building, etcetera. And those would be the two where I really focused on characters as the drivers of plot, which is at the heart of PBox as well. Realistically, it was probably easy enough after those long exercises to come back and say, "Let me work on telling you about this castle in written prose rather than visually drawing it." So I'm going to count it.
I do cringe at other things I published around PBox for different reasons. Like that "Absinthe" story I started, but never finished... The amount of times Nick said "shorty" makes me cringe every time, but that's also why I cringe at She's A Dream sometimes (that and using pesos specifically for a rhyme when it didn't really need to be the currency mentioned?). The late 00's were such a weird time, lmao.
And this isn't to say that PBox didn't have its cringey pieces. The beginning was definitely cringey by the time I got to the end (that's why it deserved a nice revision and why Gobosei should get one too), but the overall narrative wasn't the reason for the cringe so much as "I can tell this even better than when I started and it deserves that care and attention." I think I'm an outlier for doing it, but it probably has more to do with me "technically still writing it" than wanting to edit old things. I have zero desire to go back and edit most of my unfinished works.
--- Quote from: RokofAges75 on March 12, 2021, 10:04:19 PM ---Absolutely! I love the diversity in our fandom. Although certain genres seem to be more popular than others, there are BSB fics of every genre out there - something for everyone! AO3 could use some more of that diversity, so you do you! Also, it's much less fun to write something that's not interesting to you.
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I think more than other fandoms I've seen, BSB fanfic tends to be very diverse in its stories. And I don't know if that's a symptom of it being RPF where you get characters, but not plot (so much, obviously they have their lives and history). Or if it's based on how we all see the Boys within their unit and their adaptability as that unit. Are other RPF fandoms as diverse? I've never participated in any of them, so I'm genuinely curious.
RokofAges75:
--- Quote from: nicksgal on March 13, 2021, 02:22:42 PM ---I do cringe at other things I published around PBox for different reasons. Like that "Absinthe" story I started, but never finished... The amount of times Nick said "shorty" makes me cringe every time, but that's also why I cringe at She's A Dream sometimes (that and using pesos specifically for a rhyme when it didn't really need to be the currency mentioned?). The late 00's were such a weird time, lmao.
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LOL I think we all (except Rose) cringe at She's a Dream. Oh Shorty...
--- Quote from: nicksgal on March 13, 2021, 02:22:42 PM ---And this isn't to say that PBox didn't have its cringey pieces. The beginning was definitely cringey by the time I got to the end (that's why it deserved a nice revision and why Gobosei should get one too), but the overall narrative wasn't the reason for the cringe so much as "I can tell this even better than when I started and it deserves that care and attention." I think I'm an outlier for doing it, but it probably has more to do with me "technically still writing it" than wanting to edit old things. I have zero desire to go back and edit most of my unfinished works.
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I wondered if the fact that you're still working on the PBox series is what gave you the motivation to go back and do all that rewriting. It makes sense to want the beginning of the series to be of the same quality as the later stories you're writing many years after you started. If I was still working on BMS, maybe I would be more interested in going back and revising Broken.
--- Quote from: nicksgal on March 13, 2021, 02:22:42 PM ---I think more than other fandoms I've seen, BSB fanfic tends to be very diverse in its stories. And I don't know if that's a symptom of it being RPF where you get characters, but not plot (so much, obviously they have their lives and history). Or if it's based on how we all see the Boys within their unit and their adaptability as that unit. Are other RPF fandoms as diverse? I've never participated in any of them, so I'm genuinely curious.
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I also have not participated in any other fandoms, real person or otherwise, so I'm not sure. But I think you have a great point. There's so much you can do with the Boys as themselves without making it AU, and AU offers even more possibilities. The "canon" is constantly changing as time goes by and new events happen in their careers and personal lives, which opens up even more possibilities, whereas the canon is much more limited when you're writing about fictional characters.
nicksgal:
--- Quote from: RokofAges75 on March 12, 2021, 10:11:06 PM ---It does sound like you've put a lot of time into world-building, so I'm sure that praise was well-deserved!
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Aw, thanks!
--- Quote from: RokofAges75 on March 12, 2021, 10:11:06 PM ---Yes, come on board the Kevin train!
Yay chatty Brian! Bring it!
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I mean, I would, except I have zero Kevin-focused ideas. And in an effort to challenge myself to focus on Kevin's Kevin-ness as an individual, starting from "I should write a Kevin story" seems like a terrible idea. It's why "I should give Howie something important to do" would have been terribly executed outside of having a role that would be a good fit for him in a larger narrative (and getting to introduce Brian still sidelined him despite that).
You say "yay" now, but chatty Brian and chatty Nick seems like a wordy undertaking.
--- Quote from: RokofAges75 on March 12, 2021, 10:11:06 PM ---Me too, but at least there are still a few of us keeping it alive.
I'm glad you're back, too! Did you ever consider writing any other fiction while you were away from this fandom? Like original fic or fanfic for other fandoms?
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I'm doing my best to be a supreme time waster. I've posted at least 2,000 times since coming back, lmao.
I pretty much did zero fiction writing until 2012 and I only know that I wrote something in 2012 because my NaNoWriMo profile says I started some sort of novel in November 2012 and wrote 2,065 words of it. What that novel was or what those words are, I can't remember at all. But clearly it felt like enough of something that I wanted to commit to NaNo again... Maybe one of my goals in 2012 was to try writing fiction again? I did blog under a pen name from fall 2010 to... some time in 2012 probably? But it was all fairly short except for some epic memoir type posts and my "X Things before X age" yearly goals.
In 2013, In A World Like This inspired some Gobosei writing, but it was fairly minimal. Maybe a chapter at most.
Because Nick was on DWTS, I attempted NaNo again in 2015 with Gobosei and actually wrote 15,832 words for that (so my NaNo profile says), but clearly not enough to get inspiration to stick. Probably because I was also meandering back in PBox at the time. It says that I tried Camp NaNo in April 2016 and wrote 753 words for some untitled fantasy novel that I'm willing to bet was PNecklace. I'm not sure why I labeled it "untitled" since it was always called PNecklace even back when PBox was ending, but maybe it wasn't PNecklace. That venture with Gobosei was also my first foray into "write what's interesting" because of NaNo and because whatever chapter I ended on didn't seem interesting enough to keep plowing through. Something to explore when I revisit it, but it feels likely that it was either a lack of connection with the other Boys or maybe a sign that the direction of the plot needed to change.
In 2018, I started turning that 2003 OF into a novel instead of a comic, but didn't focus on it too much. I made that my 2019 NaNo project and wrote 2,684 words that month. Overall, as you can see, I am quite unsuccessful with NanNo. I'm not sure why I kept trying, but I'm happy that I finally completed it once.
My stint writing fanfic for other fandoms was in 2004ish-2007ish and none of them stuck the same way the Boys did, maybe because I enjoyed their cannon stories as is and felt like I didn't have any new stories to tell about them to completion.
I guess the point of this long list was that when the mood to write struck, I was still mostly writing BSB fanfic, it just didn't stick for very long. Who knows if it would have if I'd thought "Inspiration? Be around BSB fans again?" or not. Thanks AJ and Nick for being on reality tv at the same time. I guess I was right when I said AJ spurs inspirational moments, then Nick latches on to them and steers. It did feel a little lonely committing to a fanfic without everyone around, but I think that had more to do with all this than with not having anyone to read it.
--- Quote from: RokofAges75 on March 12, 2021, 10:11:06 PM ---Great description! This definitely captures your world-building prowess. And I agree, that was the question that hardest to answer for me, too.
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Thanks! :-* I'm sure it was even more difficult for you to pick with your extensive body of work! I could at least say, "definitely something from PBox." I think it's the length of a scene that made it tricky. If it said "which novel would you pick to showcase your entire portfolio," that seems like an easy enough answer. Narrowing down the novel to chapter was harder, but I figured if I could narrow it down to a chapter, I could find the perfect scene.
So I started thinking about what would need to be in a chapter or scene to showcase what's typical for my work and made a mental list. It had to be character-focused, it had to feature world building of some sort, there had to specifically be some of the mythos of the world building featured, fantastical elements, a fight scene would be a good addition since I write a lot of them, some good descriptive chunks, great dialogue, character interactions were a must. Plus it had to be short enough to share and not give away major spoilers, lol.
And I thought, uh... How am I going to find all of that and fit the short/no spoilers requirement? I was able to narrow it down to two chapters, but couldn't decide on a specific chunk to pull out of them, especially because as PBox neared its end, "scene" and "chapter" basically became synonymous. I decided there wasn't a fight scene I could pull that had enough of the other typical elements without having major spoilers, so I started thinking of character focused ones that included mythos type things and settled on either the first or last scene of "To The Castle" and figured you all would enjoy the last scene more since it featured all five of the Boys fairly equally rather than the Nick lean of the first scene, plus more mythos-based fantastical elements. But then realized it was too long to post here in its entirety when I previewed and just gave you all the castle, haha. ~1,200 words is still a lot!
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