Fic Talk > General Discussion
The Writing Thread: Orlando Passaggio (aka The Writing Thread 3)
RokofAges75:
--- Quote from: nicksgal on April 24, 2021, 06:47:17 PM ---You know, I've thought about it, but then it also leads me back to your last comment that you always pictured Minako being Japanese-American just based on her name. The fear of misrepresentin g a culture at best or cultural appropriation at worst, so much to the point that I've also thought about changing her name to something more "generically American" sounding to avoid that since I have no authority on what it's like to be Japanese-American. The fear is especially prevalent with everything going on these days. I could go the complete opposite direction and actively give her attributes of my own mixed heritage, but I also know next to nothing about my own cultural traditions and associate much more with my "whiteness" than my "Native Americanness," to the point that it's something I only vaguely consider a part of my identity, despite only being a couple of generations (and several states) removed. Although I'm sure things like that are often struggles for other people with mixed heritage, but overall race isn't really a focus in the story outside of the whole "in general, humans are anti-demon" thing (though in the end, that has less to do with anything race-related and more to do with something I won't spoil here quite yet).
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I hear you. It's a complex issue because, on one hand, you want to be inclusive and have meaningful representation, but on the other hand, as a heterosexual cis white female, you can't fully understand what it's like to be, say, a gay or trans black person. That's not to say you can't try, because we all write things we don't know by doing researching, but then there's the risk of being accused of stereotyping or appropriation. But then if you only write straight white characters, you're not being diverse enough. It's damned if you do, damned if you don't.
I don't think there's anything wrong with you keeping Minako's name, even if she doesn't have Japanese ancestry. Names come from all different cultures. You could always include an anecdote in the story that explains how she got her name, if you haven't already.
nicksgal:
--- Quote from: RokofAges75 on April 24, 2021, 06:34:01 PM ---LOL Why do any of us torture our beloved Nick (or any of the boys) in such ways? We could discuss this question forever.
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We have discussed it forever, lol. I think it's up there with "Why are some genres more popular than others?" and "Why don't people review as much as they read?" for discussions had many times over several years. Haven't we settled on the answer that "we like exploring dark things and like writing about the Backstreet Boys"? lol
--- Quote from: RokofAges75 on April 24, 2021, 06:34:01 PM ---I'm sure these are questions many of us asked ourselves too, especially those of us who grew up without brothers LOL. The good news is that since most of our readers are also female, it probably doesn't matter much.
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You're right, I didn't think about it too much unless the Boys very blatantly sounded like thirteen-year-old girls, which I was guilty of at least once. Thank goodness we all start from somewhere, lol.
--- Quote from: RokofAges75 on April 24, 2021, 06:34:01 PM ---To answer your Nicholas Sparks question, not that I know of. I went through a phase where I read several of his books in a row in my late teens/early twenties, but after so many, I realized they were all basically the same and haven't read one since LOL.
Lurlene and I must have been on the same wavelength for a while there because she also wrote a book about a heart transplant and cellular memory after I had started Secrets of the Heart, which is about the same thing. Must be payback for all the times I borrowed ideas from her books in my teenybopper days LOL. I read that book too and was relieved (and proud) that I liked mine better. I will always look back on her older books with nostalgia and joy, but they were definitely written for sentimental tweens, not cynical adults.
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After the next one I read was just like A Walk to Remember, I decided I couldn't read another novel of his. I couldn't even tell you which other one I read now.
Maybe Lurlene read your fanfics and wanted revenge for borrowing her ideas, lol. I'm glad it didn't destroy your joy despite liking your writing better. Now write a "crying and dying" for cynical adults. ;)
--- Quote from: RokofAges75 on April 24, 2021, 06:34:01 PM ---I think Nick is a common enough name that no one could accuse you of copying the other book just for using the same name. It would be different if you called your main character Katniss or something LOL.
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You're right, I should probably just change Nick's name to Katniss and stop worrying about this. ;D
--- Quote from: RokofAges75 on April 24, 2021, 06:34:01 PM ---Absolutely! The first one I read was written by a woman, and now I'm reading one written by a guy, so it's been nice to get a male perspective. I spent the morning revising to add in a couple of small ideas I got from reading that this week, so it's already been helpful.
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That's great! I'm glad you're getting a lot of diverse perspectives and that it's helping with your revisions.
--- Quote from: RokofAges75 on April 24, 2021, 06:34:01 PM ---Aww, Bridge to Terabithia! I actually didn't read that book until my children's lit class in college. The professor was this sweet old lady who reminded me of my grandma, and most of the class was her reading books aloud to us and discussing them. She read that entire book to us and made us cry. I use it with my high readers in fourth grade for literature discussion groups some years, and they usually love it too.
Yep, I am the same way, and yes, never Google symptoms - it could always be cancer LOL.
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Aw, I love that she did read alouds to you all. My professor for my literacy course read tons of books aloud to us, but they were usually picture books, not chapter books. She also called us "boys and girls" all the time, which... irked me, but would be fine for teaching children. There's something really joyful about being read aloud to that I miss as an adult. Glad the kiddos enjoy it, it's a great one, albeit sad.
I know this and I still google them anyway and think "well gosh, it could be cancer, guess I'll agonize over that now." lol
nicksgal:
--- Quote from: RokofAges75 on April 24, 2021, 06:45:45 PM ---All that makes sense. Starting a story is easy; sticking with it is the hard part. But I know you will; you're too dedicated to this idea not to. It's okay to slow down; that's only natural. It's also harder to keep up the kind of pace you had in the beginning as you get busier. Aside from summer for us teachers, winter is my favorite season to write because it's easier to just stay home and be cozy when it's dark and cold all the time. Now I feel guilty that I'm not outside doing yard work or going on a walk or enjoying the spring weather on nice days because that's what normal people do LOL. Meanwhile, I'm a reclusive, nocturnal creature who's allergic to pollen and sunlight and loves rain and thunderstorms.
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You're right, the "sticking to it" is where I often feel tested, and I'm sure lots of other writers do too. I will get there slowly but surely! I also feel guilty not being outside and just sitting and writing. I don't think sitting outside and writing would make that guilt go away though. I think what's getting me now is that with restrictions lightening up, I could go back to doing something every weekend, or I could sit and write inside the house. I was very nocturnal in November, now I'm back to being Team Afternoon, lol.
--- Quote from: RokofAges75 on April 24, 2021, 06:45:45 PM ---That would be one way to change it up - have someone who was bisexual in the center, trying to choose between a guy and a girl. I'm sure that's been done, but I can't think of an example offhand. Three people of the same gender would work too. Definitely not as common as two guys lusting after a girl.
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I can't either. Then I think that it could still be just as annoying as all other love triangles.
--- Quote from: RokofAges75 on April 24, 2021, 06:45:45 PM ---Sorry about your Keurig, but glad you had a backup handy! You definitely earned your two cups of coffee.
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It was a stroke of good fortune and my two coffees were delicious.
I've written about 1,000 words so far today (and post-noon), so I'm feeling a bit more productive. I even got a Howie "etcetera, etcetera, ecetera" in, so jokes are going great, lol. Even though it's been a little bit on two different chapters, I'm hoping that inspiration sticks longer into the evening, though I've been here posting long notes for the past hour or so, lol.
--- Quote from: RokofAges75 on April 24, 2021, 06:45:45 PM ---I wrote about 500 words this morning, but it was all revisions to previous chapters. Hoping to add more to my current chapter this evening. I hope you have better luck writing tonight!
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Revisions are good, some of my words were revisions too. I hope that you do get some more added to your current chapter as well! :)
RokofAges75:
--- Quote from: nicksgal on April 24, 2021, 07:08:56 PM ---We have discussed it forever, lol. I think it's up there with "Why are some genres more popular than others?" and "Why don't people review as much as they read?" for discussions had many times over several years. Haven't we settled on the answer that "we like exploring dark things and like writing about the Backstreet Boys"? lol
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Pretty much!
--- Quote from: nicksgal on April 24, 2021, 07:08:56 PM ---After the next one I read was just like A Walk to Remember, I decided I couldn't read another novel of his. I couldn't even tell you which other one I read now.
Maybe Lurlene read your fanfics and wanted revenge for borrowing her ideas, lol. I'm glad it didn't destroy your joy despite liking your writing better. Now write a "crying and dying" for cynical adults. ;)
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My favorite one I read by him was called "The Guardian," and I can't believe they've never made it into a movie. It was a romance set in North Carolina like all his other books, but there was also a suspense storyline and a bit of a supernatural element that made it different from the others.
LOL I would argue that many of my fanfics are "crying and dying books" for cynical adults that just happen to star the Backstreet Boys. Although I guess most of them are pretty sentimental too.
--- Quote from: nicksgal on April 24, 2021, 07:08:56 PM ---Aw, I love that she did read alouds to you all. My professor for my literacy course read tons of books aloud to us, but they were usually picture books, not chapter books. She also called us "boys and girls" all the time, which... irked me, but would be fine for teaching children. There's something really joyful about being read aloud to that I miss as an adult. Glad the kiddos enjoy it, it's a great one, albeit sad.
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Yes! I'm glad you got to enjoy some read alouds in college too. "Boys and girls" - that's funny that she called you that in college! Kind of cute, but I could always see it being annoying.
nicksgal:
--- Quote from: RokofAges75 on April 24, 2021, 07:05:10 PM ---I hear you. It's a complex issue because, on one hand, you want to be inclusive and have meaningful representation, but on the other hand, as a heterosexual cis white female, you can't fully understand what it's like to be, say, a gay or trans black person. That's not to say you can't try, because we all write things we don't know by doing researching, but then there's the risk of being accused of stereotyping or appropriation. But then if you only write straight white characters, you're not being diverse enough. It's damned if you do, damned if you don't.
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You're exactly right as well. It's the complexity of it that nags at me. I've even thought about seeking out people read it with a request to look at DEI stuff, but I have also started my non-BSB circle with two friends who are female. So then I think, do I need a guy to read this? Is that where I start? And then I ultimately come back to maybe I should just focus on re-writing this thing first and then worry about these complex issues more once it's been stripped of its fanficness.
--- Quote from: RokofAges75 on April 24, 2021, 07:05:10 PM ---I don't think there's anything wrong with you keeping Minako's name, even if she doesn't have Japanese ancestry. Names come from all different cultures. You could always include an anecdote in the story that explains how she got her name, if you haven't already.
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I thought about that too or doing the appropriate research/interviewing/etcetera. I also pondered that maybe she is mixed heritage, but her parent who is present isn't the one who is Japanese/Japanese-American because I do understand a disconnect from heritage to a degree.
But then there's a bunch of other things I have to make a lot less "blatantly Asian-influenced in origin" during the rewrite too, so this brings me back to "write it, then worry about complex issues."
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