Fic Talk > General Discussion
Writing & Thread (aka The Writing Thread 4)
nicksgal:
I literally hate the "write short stories before you write novels." I get that it's more of an output thing, but why not just write novels if you plan to write novels?
I agree with everything you said. I think it's weird that they're "rules" and not "tips." Don't people always attribute "never use adverbs" to King and I'm pretty sure he uses plenty of adverbs and means "don't use a weak modifying adverb when a strong verb that says the same thing is available." The shorthand for any of the "rules" is what always gets me. Like "write what you know" means more "when you don't know about something and write about it, it shows" and not "all of your stories can only be about a 30-something teacher who writes as a hobby." (This could be you or me, really, lol.) And yes, the things any of us know from personal experience will be easier to write about, but this feels the same as trying to take a Calculus test before enrolling in a Calculus class. No one would expect that, so why isn't "or are willing to research/learn" part of it. But I'm ranting about something we've already talked about ad nauseam, so...
I get not starting with dialogue if it falls into "white room syndrome," it's pretty jarring to read and not know any context about the characters or where they are. It's similar to our "don't bother describing the Boys in detail" thing. If anyone read who wouldn't say "Ah, yes, this is about Nick Carter circa 1999. I know what Nick Carter circa 1999 is like," I'm sure that would make them feel lost too. But again, this short hand is missing details. "If you start with dialogue, provide context immediately afterward or during."
I was laughing a lot about broken conventions in my writing when I was playing around with grammarly. Once I switched my settings from "casual" to "intermediate," it had a lot more to say about my sentence structure and ellipses abuse, lol.
Maybe the question should have been, what rule can you never break? I think that's "readable formatting," lol.
nicksgal:
I made the ultimate decision to halve my writing goal for Camp NaNo since it's been a week and I've had more free time due to Summer Break, but haven't managed to crack 1000 words in a day yet. I did finish the first chapter though, so at least that's something.
I started this morning semi-productive, then wanted to find some joke I'd written here for it, but instead of logging in to search I just thought "I know it was The Writing Thread 3, I'll find it..." and spent an hour rereading the thread, oops. Sooo now we'll see if I can get back into the swing of productivity.
Off-topic, but I randomly browse r/fantasywriters because sometimes they have interesting discussions (though most of it is "seeking critiques") and stumbled on one today that was "How long would it take a human riding a pterodactyl to cross half a small continent?" And one of the answers was "African or European?" I laughed so hard. This is where I am today, lol.
nicksgal:
So I'm backdating PBox right now (I'm trying to avoid laundry, shhhh...) and I found I can access my old reviews even though you can't leave reviews on AC and it's helping me backdate, for the most part. But I apparently had a stretch where I updated every single day from June 1st to at least June 7th back in 2006. Every. Single. Day. Why would I do this? That's seven weeks of solid updates right there! I think it was the reviewer shouting "More" at me. I'd forgotten I'd had one, lol.
(after a couple more backdates...)
Apparently I had a couple. I would be ecstatic about this these days, lol. I should go back to 2006 and tell me how things end up in a few years. "You thought you had no readers in 2006, just wait until you take a six month hiatus from PBox... and then a 10 year hiatus from fanfic at all." Past me would hate me so much, lol.
RokofAges75:
--- Quote from: nicksgal on July 08, 2021, 12:15:19 AM ---I literally hate the "write short stories before you write novels." I get that it's more of an output thing, but why not just write novels if you plan to write novels?
I agree with everything you said. I think it's weird that they're "rules" and not "tips." Don't people always attribute "never use adverbs" to King and I'm pretty sure he uses plenty of adverbs and means "don't use a weak modifying adverb when a strong verb that says the same thing is available." The shorthand for any of the "rules" is what always gets me. Like "write what you know" means more "when you don't know about something and write about it, it shows" and not "all of your stories can only be about a 30-something teacher who writes as a hobby." (This could be you or me, really, lol.) And yes, the things any of us know from personal experience will be easier to write about, but this feels the same as trying to take a Calculus test before enrolling in a Calculus class. No one would expect that, so why isn't "or are willing to research/learn" part of it. But I'm ranting about something we've already talked about ad nauseam, so...
I get not starting with dialogue if it falls into "white room syndrome," it's pretty jarring to read and not know any context about the characters or where they are. It's similar to our "don't bother describing the Boys in detail" thing. If anyone read who wouldn't say "Ah, yes, this is about Nick Carter circa 1999. I know what Nick Carter circa 1999 is like," I'm sure that would make them feel lost too. But again, this short hand is missing details. "If you start with dialogue, provide context immediately afterward or during."
I was laughing a lot about broken conventions in my writing when I was playing around with grammarly. Once I switched my settings from "casual" to "intermediate," it had a lot more to say about my sentence structure and ellipses abuse, lol.
Maybe the question should have been, what rule can you never break? I think that's "readable formatting," lol.
--- End quote ---
Yes, I agree with everything you said as well. They should be considered tips or guidelines rather than hard and fast rules. There is valid reasoning behind each one, but there are also occasions when it's perfectly reasonable to go against them and do something different.
I get the idea behind starting with short stories before attempting to write a novel. A short story is a good opportunity to practice the basics of writing fiction, such as character development and plot structure, without the commitment of a novel. But I definitely don't think you have to start out that way. Realistically, we probably all started out writing short stories as kids before we ever attempted a novel, fanfic or otherwise, but as far as fanfics go, I wrote 8 "novels" before my first one-shot. Granted, they would probably be considered novellas in terms of word count, but they were multi-chapter stories nonetheless. I learned more about writing from those than I did my short stories.
That's neat that Grammarly has different settings depending on the formality of the writing. I think what we do would be considered "casual" writing. As long as you're not overusing ellipses to the point that it gets annoying, you're fine. Ellipses help set the tone of your writing.
I agree about the readable formatting, too. Giant walls of text with no punctuation, capital letters, or line breaks... not cool, unless it's meant to represent a character's stream of consciousness while they're locked in the mental ward or something. See, even then, rules can be broken LOL.
RokofAges75:
--- Quote from: nicksgal on July 08, 2021, 02:05:59 PM ---I made the ultimate decision to halve my writing goal for Camp NaNo since it's been a week and I've had more free time due to Summer Break, but haven't managed to crack 1000 words in a day yet. I did finish the first chapter though, so at least that's something.
I started this morning semi-productive, then wanted to find some joke I'd written here for it, but instead of logging in to search I just thought "I know it was The Writing Thread 3, I'll find it..." and spent an hour rereading the thread, oops. Sooo now we'll see if I can get back into the swing of productivity.
Off-topic, but I randomly browse r/fantasywriters because sometimes they have interesting discussions (though most of it is "seeking critiques") and stumbled on one today that was "How long would it take a human riding a pterodactyl to cross half a small continent?" And one of the answers was "African or European?" I laughed so hard. This is where I am today, lol.
--- End quote ---
Good for you. That takes some of the pressure off. Yay for finishing the first chapter though! Sometimes the first one is the hardest. I hope they get easier from here.
I may have to do the same with mine. I was out with friends until almost midnight and literally had to open my story on my phone and discreetly write a 9-word sentence (that I probably won't even keep) to keep my streak alive. I have no plans tomorrow or this weekend, so I'm hoping I'll be able to get back on track. I think part of my problem is that I haven't followed the routine that works for me at all in the last week - I haven't stayed in bed with coffee or gone upstairs to my writing room, which are the two places I tend to be most productive. I just haven't felt like it. I'm not sure if it's because I finally hit a wall with my story and am feeling burnt out, or if it's because I started binge-watching Schitt's Creek and would rather do that. We'll see how this next week goes.
LOL I'm sure there are some interesting threads on that subreddit. I wonder if that reply was referring to the continent or the human LOL.
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