Fic Talk > General Discussion
Writing & Thread (aka The Writing Thread 4)
RokofAges75:
--- Quote from: nicksgal on July 27, 2021, 11:19:11 PM ---It is a challenge! The idea was too funny not to write, but it's not going as easily as it was at first. Except for the jokes. Now if only I could string the random jokes into a cohesive narrative, lol. This is how I know that I would struggle with a Kevin story, so I'm glad I didn't jump on that trend when it was trendy. Someone tell Nick to stop being the main character, lol.
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I'm sorry it's not going as easily as it was in the beginning. Hopefully you'll get back into a groove with it and find a way to string all those jokes together. I believe in you!
I don't know if you'll find this helpful, but one of my recommended videos on YouTube today was this one of Trey Parker and Matt Stone giving advice on story structure to a writing class: https://youtu.be/vGUNqq3jVLg They are great at being able to string those jokes together into a cohesive story. I liked the way they explained their outlining process. I'll have to try their tip of making sure I can use the words "therefore" or "but" between each scene instead of "and then" when I outline to make sure every scene is important and moves the plot forward.
What I have learned about writing the other boys that are not Nick and Brian is that I can write a story about any of them, but only with a compelling enough idea. I really enjoyed writing Howie in SAMS, but that may be the only Howie novel I ever write. Same with Kevin in MBK. I've actually enjoyed writing his chapters more than Nick's, but only because he has the more interesting storyline and most of the angst and medical drama stuff I like writing. I'm sure it's hard to come up with interesting ideas for all five in the same story, especially when it's more of a comedy than a drama. Comedy is fun, but for me, drama is more compelling. Nick needs to stop being so damn interesting and let the other guys steal the spotlight!
--- Quote from: nicksgal on July 27, 2021, 11:19:11 PM ---I do like seeing word count by story, so that's something I might keep tracking, but I think I'm putting the kibosh on all the other stuff unless I have an active NaNo goal going, which I also think I'll stop after this camp NaNo session for the time being. That being said, when I have only had a minute to write, I usually end up writing 7-8 words, so I have proven that I consistently write 7-8 words in a minute, lol.
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That sounds like a good plan. I am also going to take a break from Nano goal-setting in August. I will try to keep the streak alive as long as I can, but I can track that on my own without needing to set a word count goal. That is just pressure I don't need with the stress of going back to school, especially given how far I am below my goal this month. If I can continue to at least open the story and write something every day and hopefully stay a few chapters ahead of what I'm posting, that's good enough for me.
--- Quote from: nicksgal on July 27, 2021, 11:19:11 PM ---Gotta get to 150 days just to say that I can! ;)
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You can do it!!
--- Quote from: nicksgal on July 27, 2021, 11:19:11 PM ---Oh good! I missed that in my lurking. (It looks great/artful too, Rose, but you need more things for your shelf.) My phone has decided that I must get notifications about your tweets, Julie, but no one else's, lol.
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Aww, that makes me feel special LOL.
--- Quote from: nicksgal on July 27, 2021, 11:27:23 PM ---I like that too! Just a little series of connected shorts with a different twist from the original. What made you decide to share them instead of just hanging on to them for yourself? I think what really makes a good story compelling is the characters, so I think with really compelling character dynamics, it's easy to get attached to them and keep them around in the sandbox for next time.
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I guess it goes back to what I said before about posting everything eventually LOL. I write for my own entertainment, sure, but if I write something I feel good about, I'm gonna go ahead and post it. Broken had a big enough audience back in the day that I thought other people might enjoy reading them, too.
It's nice to have a sandbox story and/or characters to play with when you're feeling uninspired on your other projects. I don't do it very often, but I like knowing I could always come up with another Footprints moment or Nick death for 1000 Ways to get the creative juices flowing if I can't write anything else.
nicksgal:
--- Quote from: RokofAges75 on July 27, 2021, 11:52:13 PM ---I'm sorry it's not going as easily as it was in the beginning. Hopefully you'll get back into a groove with it and find a way to string all those jokes together. I believe in you!
I don't know if you'll find this helpful, but one of my recommended videos on YouTube today was this one of Trey Parker and Matt Stone giving advice on story structure to a writing class: https://youtu.be/vGUNqq3jVLg They are great at being able to string those jokes together into a cohesive story. I liked the way they explained their outlining process. I'll have to try their tip of making sure I can use the words "therefore" or "but" between each scene instead of "and then" when I outline to make sure every scene is important and moves the plot forward.
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Thanks! I believe too. I restructured it again the other day and had a couple little lines of AJ and Howie inspiration, so maybe I'll be able to get something going this week.
That actually does sound like it might be helpful! I hadn't really thought of it before, but I feel like most of the chapters I find the most compelling could have a "therefore" or "but" between them, rather than "and then." I'll definitely watch this some time this week. :)
--- Quote from: RokofAges75 on July 27, 2021, 11:52:13 PM ---What I have learned about writing the other boys that are not Nick and Brian is that I can write a story about any of them, but only with a compelling enough idea. I really enjoyed writing Howie in SAMS, but that may be the only Howie novel I ever write. Same with Kevin in MBK. I've actually enjoyed writing his chapters more than Nick's, but only because he has the more interesting storyline and most of the angst and medical drama stuff I like writing. I'm sure it's hard to come up with interesting ideas for all five in the same story, especially when it's more of a comedy than a drama. Comedy is fun, but for me, drama is more compelling. Nick needs to stop being so damn interesting and let the other guys steal the spotlight!
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I think that's part of it too, it's definitely more comedy and satire even though it has some dramatic moments. I agree that the Boys need the right story to get a compelling focus. This may be my problem here. After all, the compelling idea was "Nick avoids being the main character" not "The other Boys take on roles Nick normally plays," so it was flawed from the beginning, lol. In MBK and SAMS, did Kevin and Howie have the more interesting stories from the beginning or did they become that way in the process of developing the story? Nick the spotlight hog allowing other people to take the thing he wants? Seems counter-productive, lol.
--- Quote from: RokofAges75 on July 27, 2021, 11:52:13 PM ---That sounds like a good plan. I am also going to take a break from Nano goal-setting in August. I will try to keep the streak alive as long as I can, but I can track that on my own without needing to set a word count goal. That is just pressure I don't need with the stress of going back to school, especially given how far I am below my goal this month. If I can continue to at least open the story and write something every day and hopefully stay a few chapters ahead of what I'm posting, that's good enough for me.
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That's what I think too, I'd rather just keep track of what I'm writing, rather than having a target for anything. It's felt like I've deviated from "write something every day" more than I would like. I just looked and if I include everything I've written this month, I have met the word count goal I set, but not in the one story. I'm still glad I halved it though. I think I'd be a lot more discouraged if I hadn't.
--- Quote from: RokofAges75 on July 27, 2021, 11:52:13 PM ---You can do it!!
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You can too!!
--- Quote from: RokofAges75 on July 27, 2021, 11:52:13 PM ---Aww, that makes me feel special LOL.
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Not sure how it determines that, lol.
--- Quote from: RokofAges75 on July 27, 2021, 11:52:13 PM ---I guess it goes back to what I said before about posting everything eventually LOL. I write for my own entertainment, sure, but if I write something I feel good about, I'm gonna go ahead and post it. Broken had a big enough audience back in the day that I thought other people might enjoy reading them, too.
It's nice to have a sandbox story and/or characters to play with when you're feeling uninspired on your other projects. I don't do it very often, but I like knowing I could always come up with another Footprints moment or Nick death for 1000 Ways to get the creative juices flowing if I can't write anything else.
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That makes sense that you'd share the things you're feeling good about, especially if you post everything eventually. I'm glad you've had so many things you've felt were worth sharing, even if they started as personal entertainment. :)
It is fun to just play. I kind of like hanging on to things for just me because it's fun to look back on them and know that it was just some little spur of the moment thing. I think if I come across prompts I like, that's usually how I end up using them. Or those six word stories I was typing a week or so ago. That just felt like playing too. Speaking of... lol.
"Ugh! Coal again..." Another typical Backstreet-mas.
RokofAges75:
--- Quote from: nicksgal on July 28, 2021, 12:21:41 AM ---Thanks! I believe too. I restructured it again the other day and had a couple little lines of AJ and Howie inspiration, so maybe I'll be able to get something going this week.
That actually does sound like it might be helpful! I hadn't really thought of it before, but I feel like most of the chapters I find the most compelling could have a "therefore" or "but" between them, rather than "and then." I'll definitely watch this some time this week. :)
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I had never thought of it that way before either, but it does make sense. It goes with the "Somebody... wanted... but... so... then" method I teach my students to help them make sure they have a coherent plot for their short stories. "So" would also work in place of "therefore." The video's only a couple minutes long, so it's a quick watch. I wish it was longer; I would love to hear their whole talk! I think they are creative geniuses.
--- Quote from: nicksgal on July 28, 2021, 12:21:41 AM ---I think that's part of it too, it's definitely more comedy and satire even though it has some dramatic moments. I agree that the Boys need the right story to get a compelling focus. This may be my problem here. After all, the compelling idea was "Nick avoids being the main character" not "The other Boys take on roles Nick normally plays," so it was flawed from the beginning, lol. In MBK and SAMS, did Kevin and Howie have the more interesting stories from the beginning or did they become that way in the process of developing the story? Nick the spotlight hog allowing other people to take the thing he wants? Seems counter-productive, lol.
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You know Nick's motivation in the story, so if you haven't already, maybe you need to take some time to think about the other guys' motivation as well. What do they want, and what gets in their way? How does taking on Nick's typical story roles affect them?
In my stories, Howie and Kevin had the more interesting storylines from the beginning, and Nick just got dragged into their drama. Both of those stories started out more plot-driven, with Howie/Kevin being dealt a crappy hand within the first few chapters, and then became more character-driven as the rest of the story focused more on how they reacted to it and how it changed them.
--- Quote from: nicksgal on July 28, 2021, 12:21:41 AM ---It is fun to just play. I kind of like hanging on to things for just me because it's fun to look back on them and know that it was just some little spur of the moment thing. I think if I come across prompts I like, that's usually how I end up using them. Or those six word stories I was typing a week or so ago. That just felt like playing too. Speaking of... lol.
"Ugh! Coal again..." Another typical Backstreet-mas.
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That makes sense. I don't really do that; I've never really enjoyed writing prompts or exercises, which I guess is why I end up posting whatever I finish. Even if it's silly, it's still a complete story, and if I'm entertained by it, I figure someone else might too. If I wrote more things like the six-word stories or bonus scenes I have no intention of putting in a story, I would keep those to myself too. I did once write an uncharacterist ically graphic Brian sex scene into a chapter of Undead just to see how Rose would react LOL; I had no intention of keeping it in the story, but I do still have that saved somewhere for my own amusement.
nicksgal:
--- Quote from: RokofAges75 on July 28, 2021, 12:46:22 AM ---I had never thought of it that way before either, but it does make sense. It goes with the "Somebody... wanted... but... so... then" method I teach my students to help them make sure they have a coherent plot for their short stories. "So" would also work in place of "therefore." The video's only a couple minutes long, so it's a quick watch. I wish it was longer; I would love to hear their whole talk! I think they are creative geniuses.
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I guess it's possible to consider each chapter in a novel as a short story, but that that just makes it feel really convoluted. But you're right, every novel starts because a character wants something, but something happens to keep them from getting it. I do think sometimes I fall into an "and then" within a chapter, but between each chapter is typically a "but" or a "therefore." But... (lol) I think this is something to look at during editing. It was interesting, it said it premiered a while ago, so I wonder if there's a way to find the whole episode.
--- Quote from: RokofAges75 on July 28, 2021, 12:46:22 AM ---You know Nick's motivation in the story, so if you haven't already, maybe you need to take some time to think about the other guys' motivation as well. What do they want, and what gets in their way? How does taking on Nick's typical story roles affect them?
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I do have all of this, I think I just made the mistake of writing in order when Brian's early arc was less interesting. (Sorry Brian.) It gets better later on, it's just not punchy from the beginning because he has this perfectly normal motivation in the beginning of the story. I think I made Brian too realistic in a story about subverting stereotypes, lol!
I guess I should figure out who's "I want" is the strongest besides Nick's "I want to be a minor character" (or we could call it Nick's "I absolutely do not want," lol) and write that part next. Or just skip ahead to the parts that should be more interesting and circle back instead of focusing on the beginning chapters. I don't know if it really matters if I'm holding on to it until I have some kind of backlog for it anyway.
I updated my word count spreadsheet today since I cracked 1000 words in a day again and I have written my word count goal for this month, just not in this story. My output for it and PDemons is about equal, but I've spent 20 less days trying to write something for PDemons. Is this WADD? I can't tell? lol
Edited to Add:
I finished another chapter of PDemons today. Maybe I am WADDing...
--- Quote from: RokofAges75 on July 28, 2021, 12:46:22 AM ---In my stories, Howie and Kevin had the more interesting storylines from the beginning, and Nick just got dragged into their drama. Both of those stories started out more plot-driven, with Howie/Kevin being dealt a crappy hand within the first few chapters, and then became more character-driven as the rest of the story focused more on how they reacted to it and how it changed them.
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Of course Nick got dragged into the drama because he can't just sit still when drama is around, lol! Do you feel like most of your stories switch to character-driven after the inciting incident and/or turning point? Or are there any that feel like they stay fairly plot-driven?
--- Quote from: RokofAges75 on July 28, 2021, 12:46:22 AM ---That makes sense. I don't really do that; I've never really enjoyed writing prompts or exercises, which I guess is why I end up posting whatever I finish. Even if it's silly, it's still a complete story, and if I'm entertained by it, I figure someone else might too. If I wrote more things like the six-word stories or bonus scenes I have no intention of putting in a story, I would keep those to myself too. I did once write an uncharacterist ically graphic Brian sex scene into a chapter of Undead just to see how Rose would react LOL; I had no intention of keeping it in the story, but I do still have that saved somewhere for my own amusement.
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I really only look for them if I have a "I want to write, but what" moment. And as I've mentioned, this doesn't work well for my plantsing self for a full story, but it's usually good enough for a little sandbox moment.
These six word stories are hard since each word does count, literally, lol.
LMFAO! But what did she say?! Did she tell you to keep it?!
RokofAges75:
--- Quote from: nicksgal on July 28, 2021, 09:52:27 PM ---I guess it's possible to consider each chapter in a novel as a short story, but that that just makes it feel really convoluted. But you're right, every novel starts because a character wants something, but something happens to keep them from getting it. I do think sometimes I fall into an "and then" within a chapter, but between each chapter is typically a "but" or a "therefore." But... (lol) I think this is something to look at during editing. It was interesting, it said it premiered a while ago, so I wonder if there's a way to find the whole episode.
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I didn't mean use "Somebody wanted but so then" for each chapter because, yeah, that would be a lot. But it has that same idea that every scene should connect and move the story forward. In a novel, the structure would be more like, "Somebody... wanted... but... so... but... so... but... so..." LOL.
I'll have to look and see if I can find the full thing. Oh, speaking of Matt and Trey, I saw an article today about them trying to buy Casa Bonita so they can reopen it! https://www.denverpost.com/2021/07/28/south-park-casa-bonita-denver-sale/ If this happens, I will definitely have to visit Denver!
--- Quote from: nicksgal on July 28, 2021, 09:52:27 PM ---I do have all of this, I think I just made the mistake of writing in order when Brian's early arc was less interesting. (Sorry Brian.) It gets better later on, it's just not punchy from the beginning because he has this perfectly normal motivation in the beginning of the story. I think I made Brian too realistic in a story about subverting stereotypes, lol!
I guess I should figure out who's "I want" is the strongest besides Nick's "I want to be a minor character" (or we could call it Nick's "I absolutely do not want," lol) and write that part next. Or just skip ahead to the parts that should be more interesting and circle back instead of focusing on the beginning chapters. I don't know if it really matters if I'm holding on to it until I have some kind of backlog for it anyway.
I updated my word count spreadsheet today since I cracked 1000 words in a day again and I have written my word count goal for this month, just not in this story. My output for it and PDemons is about equal, but I've spent 20 less days trying to write something for PDemons. Is this WADD? I can't tell? lol
Edited to Add:
I finished another chapter of PDemons today. Maybe I am WADDing...
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LOL Sounds like WADD to me, but at least you're being productive. Congrats on making your word count goal! I say write what you want to write, whether it's PDemons or skipping around in the other story. It will all come together eventually.
--- Quote from: nicksgal on July 28, 2021, 09:52:27 PM ---Of course Nick got dragged into the drama because he can't just sit still when drama is around, lol! Do you feel like most of your stories switch to character-driven after the inciting incident and/or turning point? Or are there any that feel like they stay fairly plot-driven?
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He's gotta get his POV in there! He has to at least be co-main character LOL.
I think I've got a mix of both. My medical dramas and romances are more character-driven, but then I have stories like Bethlehem that are more plot-driven.
--- Quote from: nicksgal on July 28, 2021, 09:52:27 PM ---LMFAO! But what did she say?! Did she tell you to keep it?!
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I actually don't remember LOL. Do you remember, Rose? I had no intention of keeping it in there, regardless of what she said.
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