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Writing & Thread (aka The Writing Thread 4)

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FrickingKaos:
Lol. I've been watching people watch movies for the first time on YouTube too. Get out of my brain. Haha.

Writing has been going really well which is surprising because nobody's reading Take Me Home. I haven't had any interest in it which does challenge me via having nobody motivating me to write. So I've fallen back on watching science fiction to get inspired, along with inspirational writing music I found on YouTube. I'd gone two days without writing, put on this one playlist and I cranked out a whole chapter in one sitting.

It's okay if nobody is reading, usually that makes me sad but I am so close to finishing this story that I don't want to abandon it which in turn motivates me instead of waiting for reviews. It's kind of freeing in a way.

But low key I hope someone does read eventually lol

RokofAges75:
That's exciting that you're so close to finishing!  That is definitely motivation in itself, but I know it's frustrating when you're not getting feedback and you feel like no one's reading.  The same thing happened to me when I came back to Secrets of the Heart after 3+ years of barely updating it.  The few people who had shown an interest in it when I posted the beginning had disappeared, so I had to finish it for myself.  I'm sure the same thing would happen with Guilty Roads if I started working on that one again after so long.  It's disappointing, but the satisfaction of finishing a story will make up for the lack of feedback.  And it may just take time for people who didn't read it back when you first started posting it to discover it and get caught up, so give it time.

I'm glad you found some inspiration writing music on YouTube!  That's been my go-to for writing music lately too.  Do you have any recommendation s?  I'm always on the lookout for new writing music.  My current favorite channels for writing music are The Ambient Score (https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCBLnImOsHcvdI56RaRRmLzA) and Ambient Worlds (https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCfR8HhkbpDAwvYxrecNg4Mg).  The Ambient Worlds videos have beautiful changing backgrounds that are fun to put on for added ambience if I'm writing in front of the TV.  If you have Amazon Prime, Prime Music also has some good writing music.  I have a writing playlist there, but I also sometimes just listen to the movie scores station or stations for individual composers I like.

RokofAges75:
Here is an example of why I write so slowly.  I wrote a sentence:  "That evening, while AJ went off to do his show, Kevin and I watched a movie."  I thought to myself, I should specify what movie they watched - not because it's important, per se, but just because it's nice to include those details that help bring the story to life.  So what movie should they watch?

It happens to be Easter Sunday in the story, so my first thought was that maybe "The Ten Commandments" would be on TV, as it usually is around Easter, and Kevin could make Nick sit through all four hours of that movie.  But because I feel compelled to fact-check what I can, I went to my historical TV listings site (http://www.tvtango.com/listings/) to see if it was actually on TV on Easter Sunday in 2008.  No, it aired the night before.  So I scratched that idea.

My next thought was to browse movies that came out in 2007 and would have been released to DVD in early 2008, thinking maybe they would watch a new movie.  A lot of pretty good movies came out that year, though none that stood out to me as an obvious choice.  Maybe "Knocked Up" because it's funny, and I feel like they would want to watch something light.  But how would they acquire said movie?  Streaming wasn't really a thing in 2008, was it?  A quick Google search confirmed that Netflix didn't start its streaming-only service until 2010.  Which means they would have had to rent a DVD, either through old-school DVD-by-mail Netflix or an even older-school video store.  (Are/were video stores in Hollywood open on Easter?  Most places are closed on Easter here, but I live in a predominantly Christian community, which I realize is not the case everywhere.)  Or I could forget the new movie and just have them pop in a DVD from home.  Or flip channels until they found a movie on TV.

But what movie?  Should it be something symbolic and relevant to the plot of my story or completely random?  I still haven't decided, so now it's a question of how long I will sit here and agonize over this small detail until I either make a decision and go with it or leave it at "We watched a movie" and move on.

Does anyone else do this when they write, or is this just me being anal? LOL


Update: I decided to leave it at "We watched a movie" and move on without specifying which one.  I ended up writing almost 1,400 more words and finishing my chapter, so I guess that was the right decision.  If I come up with a perfect movie later, I can always go back and add it in, but I don't think it's necessary.

nicksgal:

--- Quote from: RokofAges75 on June 25, 2021, 12:26:47 AM ---I have always liked the thought of writing sequels, but I used to be a little sequel-happy and then didn't finish most of them, so I told myself no more.  That was before BMS, which is my best exception to the rule.  I think I know myself well enough as a writer now that I would only attempt it if I felt like I had an idea worth writing that I would want to see through to the end, and I would only post it if it was going well.  With MBK, I think the basic premise is good, but it'll come down to whether or not I want to keep writing about this version of Kevin or do something different.
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I was the opposite. I didn't really think about sequels until that 2003 OF and Gobosei because they were originally planned as serializations (more like an ongoing storyline in a comic than a novel and sequels), so that's when I started thinking in terms of "there's a story, but that story is just one part inside what can be a bigger story." I blame my obsession with manga in high school for that; pretty much all the ones I read were multi-arc juggernauts rather than short collections. The rest of my Backstreet fanfic, or writing in general, wasn't like that though. Heck, even PBox wasn't originally meant to be in a series when I first envisioned it; yet, it became that probably around the time Nick refused death -- maybe because he was adamant that he had a story to tell beyond the scope of PBox, lol.

I think that's a fair stance to have. If the initial stories are the ones getting completed, but the sequels weren't, then I think I would also put the kibosh on sequels. There's a happy medium for it though. It seems like a lot of your ideas back then were "a little more than what was there, but maybe not enough for a whole novel." So something like your short SAMS one-shot is the perfect alternative. I think it's a good exercise for us novel writers. How can we convey a complete arc in a shorter medium? It's why I wished I'd taken on more of Mare's challenges back in the day; I just never had strong enough ideas for any of them. That could have been because they were the photo challenges back then, rather than the more broad "basic premise" ones though.

Do you hold a lot of your story ideas because you're not quite sure if you'll see them through to the end?



--- Quote from: RokofAges75 on June 25, 2021, 12:26:47 AM ---LOL It's probably both.  Part of the reason I tend to be productive late at night is because there's no one around to talk to, so I don't spend as much time on this forum or Twitter.  But at the same time, the fanfic discussion around here is motivating and helps hold me accountable, especially during the school year when I'm tired and less likely to want to write.  I'm more likely to get on the computer if I think there are forum posts to catch up on and respond to (which is not so easy from my phone), and sometimes just getting on the computer is half the battle.  

Unless I'm on an end-of-story streak, I don't usually have multiple crazy writing days in a row, even in the summer.  I guess my brain needs a break.  I've been trying to read more and watch more movies to fill it with fresh ideas.
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Probably! Sorry for sleeping and not being a gremlin anymore, lol. Yes, I do enjoy all of us cheering each other on and talking about our writing. It's fun to discuss little specifics and discuss them from the broad "literary aspects" and also fun to talk about the broad things we all encounter without specifics. At the end of the day, we all have bouts of inspiration, struggles with writers block, write novel-length fiction (here anyway), and use the same main characters. So even if the details aren't the same, the overall experience is pretty similar. :) I think it helps mitigate some of the "reader silence" for me personally.

I agree, getting in front of a place to write is half of the struggle. That's why in the beginning of getting back into it, I worried less about word count and more about "writing any words." I think now it only bums me out if I feel like I'm writing a lot of words, but I'm actually not, lol. Those days are jarring. And yes, using my phone to post on the forum is really hard and more time consuming than the effort it takes to get on the computer.

I guess I don't either. Those two weekend of really high days were the last five chapters of PNecklace. I think my highest word-count day was my over 5,000 one in November, but I think the day afterward was average? I just looked it up, I lied. The next day, I wrote about 4,000 words. I guess if I have a really high day, the next day will usually be really high as well. If only I could aim to have only high word count days, lol. I'm guessing these are untamed bursts of inspiration rather than the day to day? I had these with PBox too, but back then it's when I would get the chapters done, rather than trying to put in even mediocre effort on a daily basis. I try to live by the "you can't edit a blank page" adage these days, but I don't know if I was in the right headspace back then to commit to daily (or near daily) writing. I do need to get back into doing some other things besides writing. There's many books and movies I've been meaning to give some attention to.



--- Quote from: RokofAges75 on June 25, 2021, 12:26:47 AM ---I'm the same way with crying about everything!  I was on my period last week too, so I was probably extra-emotional.  I found a great new YouTube channel called The Ambient Score that has nice long mixes of movie scores to use as writing music, and they have one for The Land Before Time.  I had tears in my eyes within the first few seconds of listening to that music!  I cry at commercials too.  The Budweiser ones kill me!  But I'm less likely to cry over my own writing, even when I'm writing something sad.
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Been there. Hubs and I were watching Trevor Noah once and he was doing a segment where he talked about a teenager that made bowties for all the dogs at the local animal shelter for an event they had; I was sobbing because they looked so adorable and all ended up getting adopted -- hubs made so much fun of me. Ugh, don't get me started on TLBT! Littlefoot's mom dying... heartwrenching!

I wonder why we don't cry at our own writing? Outside of laughing, I can normally feel myself feeling slightly anxious when I'm writing about the characters being anxious/nervous/afraid/worried about something (like a tight feeling in my chest), but I don't cry or get angry or anything like that. Can't explain it.



--- Quote from: RokofAges75 on June 25, 2021, 12:26:47 AM ---LOL That was IAWLT promo.  Aww, Nick and his made-up big words.  Bless him.  I threw in a line where Kevin makes fun of the way he mispronounced "documentary" in my chapter the other day, and it made me laugh.

They are terrible at remembering dates, timelines, etc.  I guess it all blurs together over the years.
 They need us fans around to fact-check them on this sort of information LOL.
--- End quote ---

I asked it and remembered that right afterward, lol. I joke, but as a lover of linguistics, I actually do have a soft spot for his made up fancy words. I wish more new words were added to our lexicon. lol! Yes! I wrote another short bit of the "Nick avoids being the main character" story and definitely added "conversate" to a piece of Nick's dialogue because I was thinking about it, lol.

I know. I need to stop asking and judging them, lol. My real qualm was that he remembers that he turned 19 in 1999. He remembers that Millennium came out in 1999. He remembers that IWITW was the lead single from Millennium. Yet somehow he thinks that they recorded it when he was 16 when they would have been busy touring for the red album and recording Backstreet's Back (the album). If he had said 18, maybe even 17, I would have accepted it. They really do need us to keep their timelines straight, or the more meticulous among us. Sometimes I have a vague memory myself, lol.



--- Quote from: RokofAges75 on June 25, 2021, 12:26:47 AM ---Good advice!!  There probably aren't as many nicknames as I would normally use in a canon fic, but there may be some.  I would definitely reread the thing after using find/replace.  Luckily it's not a long one.

Yeah, if I ever really got the publishing itch, I think that would be a good place to start for the sake of getting my feet wet with the whole process because the initial work of writing a first draft is already done.  And because I already "published" it as a fanfic, it would be less devastating to get those inevitable rejection letters, because at the end of the day, I could just repost it as a fanfic.  It wouldn't feel like years of work wasted.  Though nowadays, there are so many other options besides traditional publishing for OF.  If you're not successful going that route, you can always self-publish.  I'm just kind of at a place in my life where I'm like, "What's the point?"  I don't like to share or talk about my writing with people in real life, and that's not just because it's BSB fanfic.  I don't think I would be any different with OF, so why on earth would I even want it published for the whole world to read?  I'm probably better off sticking to my little niche audience here on the internet.
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That was one Mare mentioned to me. I think she said she fudged around it for the less specific ones like calling Howie "D" by giving Howie's character a name that started with D. Whereas keeping "B-Rok" or "Kev" or something would be a big giveaway. That is the nice thing about an AU, many of those more obvious things just aren't in there. Or at least a super divergent AU. Something like Gobosei is an AU, but only in the sense that it's "alternate universe where the Backstreet Project is real" and not "alternate universe where the Boys are all working at a Target together" or something more like Secrets of the Heart is (That's this one, right? I'm sorry, I have a hard time keeping track of all the stories you published while I was away, lol). It's thankfully one of the things that I also don't have to worry about in PBox&Co (for the most part), since the chapters where it does make a difference, I've basically decided that cutting them or hacking/slashing them is just the better option; that and keeping Nick's name the same means I can reasonably keep all my "Nick/Nickolas/Nicky" without many issues.

That's true, though I think it would depend on how much time you spent paring down the fanfic aspects on any work. I think it would still be hard to hear "this won't work as a published novel" after working on something for such a long time. Not sure though, haven't tried it. I think there's hard things with self-publishing too. First the whole "print on demand" aspect is a monetary pain. But probably more than that is having to be your own editor, publicist, marketer, sales, and so on. Of course it's possible to hire people to do those things, but then that further cuts into your bottom line and so on. Not that it's only about making money, but all those things are full time jobs, so if writing the book you're selling isn't paying the bills, adding more of a workload might also not increase the ability to pay bills. Having worked two full time jobs at one point (one of which I wasn't getting paid for, because you know, student teaching), I can attest to the difficulty of working a job for a passion, but still having to work something menial to pay rent. And there's just not enough hours in the day to do all of that and take care of yourself; I wouldn't do it again. That said, I think if anyone's already a popular fanfic writer, it would probably be an easier task to transition into self-publishing if you could convince your readership to go with you.

But I also agree that there's something nice about knowing your audience is out there in a medium your comfortable with them interacting with you. :) I've never minded discussing my writing with other people, I'm just abysmal at the elevator pitch. For anything; there's this leadership styles compass thing, and I'm firmly in the "feelings/details" camp of it -- "big picture" is okay, "just do it" is not. So I definitely get bogged down in the details of things.



--- Quote from: RokofAges75 on June 25, 2021, 12:26:47 AM ---LMAO!!

--- End quote ---

Yes, yes, laugh at my pain.  ;)

nicksgal:

--- Quote from: RokofAges75 on June 25, 2021, 01:06:50 AM ---That's a good point.  And while I know we all write for ourselves first and foremost, you're more likely to attract new readers with something different and unrelated to PBox.  That's the problem with sequels - most people don't want to read a sequel without reading its predecessor(s), and if there's a lot to catch up on, they're probably less likely to do it than just start something brand new.  Especially on a site like AO3 that seems to favor one-shots.  For readers who are used to short stories, seeing all those chapters may be overwhelming.  That said, go with what you want to write most.  If that means finishing your magnum opus first, do it!  Then you'll be more free to focus on other things.  It is nice to know you can come back after so long and finish something!  It's inspiring to the rest of us who have long-unfinished stories too LOL.
--- End quote ---

Exactly. If I'd gotten to the end of NaNo and hadn't thought about coming back to the fandom aspect, then I would have known that my heart was in it for PBox, which I think I'd even mentioned maybe trying to turn into an original story even way back when I was first writing it. But I came back to be back, so may as well write other things too and see who out there may enjoy them. And yes, that is definitely a danger with a series unless it's something like... oh, I don't know... Discworld... where the universe is the same, but the characters' stories are only connected on the broad scale of the universe's happenings (for the most part). Whereas something like PBox&Co (like Harry Potter, the Hunger Games, Twilight, whatever) does depend on a certain degree of knowledge on the prior books. Like could you imagine picking up The Deathly Hallows without having read any other Harry Potter books? lol It probably doesn't help that reading the entirety of PBox's story through the end of PDemons means committing to 150 chapters (probably... having not written the last one, I can't say for certain) that are all at least 3,000 words. That's... a lot of words. It's probably easier in a publish novel (or on AO3) since you can't see the word count for a chapter prior to reading it.

And yes, you're also correct that it's another ball game being a novel writer in an increasingly one-shot fan content platform. I think that's something we all face.

You know, at this moment, I can't picture a world where PBox Nick isn't popping around in my head somewhere. Even when I wasn't actively writing, there were still times that I would have dreams about PBox. Not concrete enough to write anything down afterward, but enough to think "huh, Pbox?" when I woke up. Being completely finished with it would be a bizarre feeling. I'm glad you feel inspired by my new-found work ethic. I will do my best to continue to be an inspiration! lol



--- Quote from: RokofAges75 on June 25, 2021, 01:06:50 AM ---Mariko, wow, that is similar!  I can see why your brain is substituting Minako LOL.  I think even if you changed it to another M name that does not end in "-ko," that would help.
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Yeah... I guess I just really wanted to name my female protagonists with "M---ko" names back then, lol. But I also have "Madeline" in PNecklace (nothing to do with the song, I'd named her that before IAWLT had been released), so I think it's time to move on from M names.

There's several things in the backstory I think I'd like to change about Gobosei, so I think I can reasonably move away from "Asian influences" in it in general. I've gotten a lot of that desire out in PBox as a fanfic and honestly will probably move even further away from it in PBox as OF. In my general research on portraying POC I've been doing lately, I stumbled on a blog called "Writing With Color" and have been chewing on some of their "food for thought" type stuff in my current only vaguely WADDing state. Something they said really stuck with me, which was something like "fantasy [races], rather than drawing from real life cultures (unless it's already deeply entrenched in a real world culture), should be envisioned more as 'alien cultures,' something totally new." (I put "[races]" because while that's the trope name y'all would be more familiar with, they're very adamant over there on the difference between "race" and "culture," which I agree with.) And really, after spending time messing around on vulgar lang, it seems like a good next step. Like, four countries... of course they would have their own cultural elements rather than the vague sameness they have now even if all the characters we follow are all demons (who realistically fall more into "species" than "race"); even something as small as the differences between life in Iowa versus Georgia would be a difference in culture. This is neither here nor there, but something writing-related I've been thinking about this past week that I found interesting. :)



--- Quote from: RokofAges75 on June 25, 2021, 01:06:50 AM ---LOL I love this!

Yeah, I know I looked it up for SAMS because there were scenes that took place during tour rehearsal.  I just kept it fairly vague and called the place a rehearsal venue.
--- End quote ---

Yay! I think I'm on to something, lol.

That's probably what I might go with, since it's not a major setting or even the bulk of the story.

Here's my next toss out into fandom free-for-all opinions: So what is my plot for AJ? Is there one I'm forgetting that Nick would be more likely to be involved in than AJ would? I'm at a loss basically, lol. It's a good thing I moved Howie to the love triangle, because I think I would have even less ideas for him. Will someone just spitball some basic ideas at me, so I don't spoil some of my other plans by telling you all what I've already considered? In my head, this story is meant more as a novella (I think 25 chapters may be my limit on it -- Nick can only avoid being the main character for so long before he inevitably ends up in that role based on the premise as a whole, I think, lol), so bare bones is fine.



--- Quote from: RokofAges75 on June 25, 2021, 01:06:50 AM ---LOL So true.  His gritty outlaw voice wasn't nearly as funny as his gangsta voice in Kill Speed.  But Howie's constantly changing accent was!
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It was not! He should really just stick with his regular voice. It would be less distracting, lol. I died at Howie's accent. I think the direction he got for it was very vague, so I feel like by the end, he was at the point where he was trying to be as ridiculous as possible to see if he would get called out on it. And obviously, Nick who has this penchant for unnecessary over-acting probably loved it at face value not realizing it was more of a joke, lol.



--- Quote from: RokofAges75 on June 25, 2021, 01:06:50 AM ---That's a good idea!  Is the body language thing something you can share?  I'm curious to see it.  I feel like I use the same few descriptions for body language over and over again, so maybe there are some I haven't thought to include.
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It is! I'd love to share it! I stumbled on this website on accident when I was trying to get rid of the dialogue tags in PBox and was laughing at the ridiculous amount of "is angry, clenches fists" I had going, so I attempted to find other ways to show "is angry." The one I use most often in a quick pinch is "400+ Ways to Exploit Facial Expressions in Writing," but she has a whole bunch of different "other words for whatever" pages. I've been meaning to check out her Writer's Lexicon books, which is more of this type stuff, though she has helpfully put a lot of it online as a free reference, which is nice. I hope you find this useful too! :)



--- Quote from: RokofAges75 on June 25, 2021, 01:06:50 AM ---Very true!  I am always up for learning and don't consider it a focus fail if I'm actually researching something I need for the story.  My problem is I easily get sucked down rabbit holes.  Lately it's YouTube.  I've subscribed to several channels that have helpful content for my story, so I'll go to YouTube to look up something or open my writing music playlist and then see something shiny in the recommended videos section and click on something totally unrelated to what I'm supposed to be looking up.  This week it's been Titanic/Kate & Leo videos.  I watched one of those "Guy reacts to watching Titanic for the first time" last week, so now I get a ton of Titanic videos in my recommendation s... and the more I click on them, the more they tend to pop up.
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LOL! I wish there was a way to turn off the "recommended videos" when you really just need to pop in for something quick. I also get sucked into YouTube rabbit holes when I'm just wanting one specific thing. :( Sometimes I love "react" videos and sometimes I hate them. I like the way "Kids React" has done it because they only show us snippets of the things they're reacting to and ask questions/have discussions about it afterward. Those parts are more fun than watching a live reaction to media, I think. Although, I do like CinemaSins.



--- Quote from: RokofAges75 on June 25, 2021, 01:06:50 AM ---Mine's been okay.  I've still been writing every day, just not as much as I would like (a.k.a. not enough to make my Nano goal).

--- End quote ---

That's the hard part in setting a goal. Even if you're writing consistently, it can feel stressing if you feel like you're not "writing enough." That's kind of how I felt in April, although, if I'd known I needed 80,000 words to finish and not 60,000 words, I probably would have been less stressed about not reaching my goal of finishing the last twenty chapters (and possibly would have thought more realistically about what I could finish in a month). That being said (I'm creeping), it looks like you've had a good writing day so far today and you only need about 2,000 words for each of the next few days to reach it. You're over halfway there already today! :) I believe!

Maybe I'll write more than 100 words today, lol. It's raining off and on, and I do like writing when it's raining.

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