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Fic Talk => General Discussion => Topic started by: RokofAges75 on August 13, 2010, 11:15:08 PM
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... because some of us need to be schooled!
I'm a teacher and a Grammar Nazi, and it drives me nuts to see grown women mutilate the English language in their fanfics, so I'm going to start posting a grammar tip a day in this thread. If you care at all about the grammar side of good writing, read, learn, and apply them!
Unit 1: Homophones
Homophones are groups of words that sound the same, but are spelled differently. The misuse of homophones is my absolute biggest grammar pet peeve, so I thought I'd start there. I'll post a pair of commonly misused homophones per day. If you are guilty of mixing them up, go back and see if you can correct them in your stories!
Today's words...
Your/You're:
Your shows ownership. I love your new shoes! The new shoes belong to YOU, so they're YOUR shoes.
You're is a contraction that means "you are." You're wearing new shoes! YOU ARE wearing new shoes, so the contraction YOU'RE fits here.
If you get confused on which one to use, just ask yourself, "Would it make sense to say 'you are' here instead of 'your/you're'?" If the answer is YES, you use the contraction you're. If the answer is NO, you use your.
Lose/Loose:
Not true homophones because they don't sound the same, but they're mixed up so often, I thought I'd throw them on this list too.
Lose is a verb. You can lose your keys; you can lose the game; you can lose a loved one. Lose only has ONE O. Yes, just one. No, it doesn't follow the rules of English; it's just one of those exceptions. Get used to it!
Loose is an adjective. If you lose weight, your clothes will be loose. (See how I used them both in the same sentence? See the difference?)
If you get confused on how to spell lose, simply get out your Millennium or Never Gone CD and look at the back. The Backstreet Boys have recorded two lovely songs with lose in the title: "Don't Wanna Lose You Now" and "Lose It All." THERE IS NO EXCUSE FOR A BSB FAN TO MISSPELL LOSE!!!
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LMAO and Julie has finally reached the breaking point.
Love it!
You're (you are) awesome for doing this! I hope people don't lose (not loose) out on this opportunity because we all know your (you are does not fit here) grammar (not grammer) skills are best of the best! :)
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LOL I love you for this.
I hate the loose/lose thing. I mean seriously, it's on the back of two CDs! No excuse for a BSB fan to misuse them.
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LMAO and Julie has finally reached the breaking point.
Love it!
You're (you are) awesome for doing this! I hope people don't lose (not loose) out on this opportunity because we all know your (you are does not fit here) grammar (not grammer) skills are best of the best! :)
LMFAO I love you, Mare!!! YOUR (not you're) grammar here is exceptional! Gold star for you! ;D
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YAY!!! LOL
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Maybe if we just start posting like that, it will help? (use of question mark when posing a question is a good thing)
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You're (you are) so full of good ideas, Mare! [Notice the comma in front of your (not you are) name? I also used a question mark here because I, too, was posing a question.]
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lmao... Oh my. I love that you pointed out the back of the CDs. So true.
And yeah, it bugs me sometimes, too, but I'm probably one of the ones you're (you are! yay) yelling at. LOL
:-*
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^ No, you're (you are) definitely not LOL.
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Nah, we both read your (not you are) stuff, remember? You're (you are, YAY Grammar!) not it LOL.
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Great idea, it's something that annoys me too. When I was in school it was kind of drilled into us and it's not something you forget.
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We're (we are <-- for Nick and AJ lol) definitely (not definately) having fun with this now. (hit the space bar once at the end of a sentence to help break up your thoughts) I (always start a new sentence with a capital letter and always capitalize the letter 'I' when it stands alone, even in the middle of a sentence) hope people really do pay attention to what is being said in here (not hear). :)
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[Too means also[I'm going too.] The other To means to funny.
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[Too means also[I'm going too.] The other To means to funny.
If by "to funny," you mean it's funnier than you can stand, the way Lore used it in the post before yours, it's actually too funny. She was right. ;) There, too is an adjective that helps describe how funny it is. "To funny" would mean you're going to funny - as if funny is a place or something that you do, neither of which makes sense.
I guess that means today's words are...
To/Too/Two:
To is a preposition, used before a noun, often a place. I'm going to the store. Hey, Tanja, this story belongs to me! To can also be used as an infinitive before a verb. I'm going to post my story on AC. I'm going to kick Tanja's ass if she steals my story again.
Too is a synonym for "also." Do you want to kick Tanja's ass, too? Too can also be used before an adjective to mean "excessively." Tanja has plagiarized too many stories. She is too pathetic.
Two is the written form of the number 2. If you mean 2, write out "two."
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Can I also mention in here the differences between USA and English words? Some people might read my stories and think things like 'you don't spell favourite with a u in the middle, she can't spell' etc, etc. I just want to point out that some of our spellings are different and it's not that I'm crap at spelling ;D
Sorry to go slightly off the topic!
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LOL I think everyone realizes that Steph! No worries there!
The same is true for people where english isn't their first language. The English language is really complex!
People who have lived here their whole lives and have gone to school for 13 years should know some of these rules though lol especially if they choose (not chose) to write. (not right)
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Phew, that's OK then!
And I agree about people who have gone all through (not threw) school, they should know! I don't know how kids are taught these days, but in the 80s and 90s (when I was in school) we were taught these things.
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Good point, Steph, and no worries! I think most people are aware.
And Mare, that's true too. My Grammar Nazi stuff doesn't apply to people who write in English when it's not their first language. Usually I can tell the difference between someone who learned English as a second/third/whatever language and someone who should have learned English as their first language and just... didn't. The mistakes are different.
I admire those of you who speak other languages natively, but know English well enough to write in it. That is not easy to do!! English is a tough language to learn, and I'm sure it's even harder to be creative and write in a foreign language. I took four years of German in high school, and I would never be able to write in it... and if I did, my grammar would be terrible, so I'm not judging anyone there LOL.
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Julie, I love you forever for creating this thread. LOL
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LOL thanks!
I know I'm anal, and I also know this comes easier to some people than others. I definitely understand about learning disabilities and other such conditions that make writing tough for people. That said, everything I've posted so far should be easy to get. The rules are right there. Grammar's the same as spelling: it's not easy for everyone, but if you're a poor speller, you learn how to use spell check or a dictionary; if you're not good at grammar, you need to put the same extra time and effort into looking up the rules. Everyone who posts their stories on AC wants them to be read, but if they're chock full of grammar errors, few people are going to take them seriously. Editing is an important part of the writing process.
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That is very true about people for whom English isn't their first language. I admire them for being able to write in a language not their own because I know for sure that I couldn't write in another language. I did three years of French and Welsh when I was in school, but it wasn't enough to be able to write a story!
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LOL, My sister wrote that stuff and now she's mad cause she doesn't use 'to' right.
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Thank you for starting this topic! It’s got my name written all over it! ;D Not in a way that I suck at grammar and spelling, but more like ‘cause I am a grammar nazi as well. ;D I also love this topic 'cause then I can check my own stories. I know the rules that are posted now, but I bet I will discover and learn a lot more things that I didn't know before! :) And I'm always willing to learn more when it comes to English!
I admire those of you who speak other languages natively, but know English well enough to write in it. That is not easy to do!! English is a tough language to learn, and I'm sure it's even harder to be creative and write in a foreign language. I took four years of German in high school, and I would never be able to write in it... and if I did, my grammar would be terrible, so I'm not judging anyone there LOL.
That is very true about people for whom English isn't their first language. I admire them for being able to write in a language not their own because I know for sure that I couldn't write in another language. I did three years of French and Welsh when I was in school, but it wasn't enough to be able to write a story!
I'm super glad to (not too or two) read this, so thank you very much! ;D
If I didn't love the English language so much, I wouldn't write stories in English. :)
To be honest, I can't write a story in Dutch! Only when I translate an English story to Dutch but if I have to start a brand new story in Dutch? My mind will be a complete blank. Guess I just love English more than my own language. Ha! :D
But, as I said, I'm a grammar nazi too, both with Dutch and English. The day before yesterday I busted myself on a grammar mistake in one of my Tumblr posts. I wrote "you're" instead of "your". I didn't realize it at first, only 2 hours later. I was like "AHHHH WHAT HAVE YOU DONE??!?!". I was frustrated lmao! But, as you said, for me it's not that bad 'cause English isn't my native language. But it did bother me for the entire day! :D
Something that I sometimes see (and annoys the fork out of me) is e.g. this:
I didn't KNEW you were doing that! - I didn't SAW that coming. - We didn't WALKED to the cinema.
I don't know if any people from the USA or UK make a mistake like this, but Dutch people do a lot, and it's making me cringe. Of course, it’s not their native language but I can’t help it!
I’m like “Can’t you hear it sounds incorrect?”. Well, apparently they can’t. And some people just aren’t that good at learning other languages so I’m not the one to blame them (it doesn’t make me cringe less anyway).
Does punctuation count in this topic too? ‘Cause I’m always thinking if that comma should be there or not. I know things like: AJ, what have you done? – I didn’t do anything, Brian.
That’s no problem, but in other situations I’m doubting a lot. Eventually, ( <-- should the comma be there or not? lol) I will double check everything and try to decide what would look best and just hope it’s correct.
I also have another question. I have a problem with past tense sometimes.
Like with the verb ‘to step’. I know the present tense (is present tense correct? Another complication of mine lol) is: he steps inside. Is it ‘he stepped inside’ in past tense?
Oh! One of the things I’m not so good at when it comes to English are the prepositions (I have to admit, I hate them with a passion). On, to, at… You see, I always thought it was ‘I look at you’. But my best friend (who’s from Sweden and whose native language isn’t English either) said it can also be ‘I look to you’. Wtf? ‘I look to you’ sounds odd to me. But the words ‘on’ and ‘at’ confuse me the most. :D
I just thought of something else I used to do wrong a long time ago! You see, in Dutch when we write a dialogue we put the sentences between ‘ and ’. I used to write my older fanfics like that too. Until I was more alert of fanfics of others and saw they put the sentences between “ and ” . I was like, “oh well damn me” lmao! ;D Just wanted to say that ‘cause I still think it’s funny when I think back to that moment. :)
Anyway, I love this topic! Will definitely think of more things I’m having trouble with. :)
(And I’m sorry for my king size post)
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Julie, you should post some linkage to your Mechanics of Writing. :)
btw, is it "good AT grammar" or "good WITH grammar"? or can it be either one? I've always wondered.
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I think the "I didn't KNEW" / "I didn't SAW" kind of mistake is more one that someone who learned English as a second language would make, rather than a native English speaker. You're right; it just sounds wrong! But if you didn't grow up hearing English all the time, you wouldn't necessarily think so. Then again, there are mistakes people here make that also sound wrong; a big one is saying "I seen" instead of "I saw," but that is a dialect thing. People in certain parts of the country grow up speaking that way and don't always realize it's incorrect grammar. (Per Mare's request, I'll get to seen and saw one of these days!)
Punctuation is a big one! I will probably do punctuation after I finish homophones; I LOVE punctuation, especially commas! You were right with the comma when you said "Eventually, I will double check everything..." "Eventually" is a transition word, and you always use a comma after those (or before, if it comes at the end of the sentence - "I will double check everything, eventually.")
"Stepped" is right as the past tense of "step," yes. :) That can be tough because, while the general rule is to add "ed" to the end, there are so many verbs that break the rule. Sometimes I even come across a word I'm not sure about and have to check. One that came up recently was "grit," as in gritting one's teeth. I wasn't sure if the past tense was "grit" or "gritted." For some reason, "he grit his teeth" sounded better to me than "he gritted," but I looked it up on dictionary.com, and "gritted" is the right past tense. So that one did follow the rules; it just sounded odd to me LOL.
I can see how prepositions would be confusing. To me, "I look at you" and "I look to you" mean different things. They are both correct, depending on your meaning. "I look at you" means, literally, I'm looking at you; I see you. "I look to you" usually means something like "I'm going to let you handle this." Like in a Backstreet Boys interview, the other guys used to "look to Kevin" to take the lead in answering questions. They might literally look AT him to give him that cue, too LOL. It would sound odd to say "I look to you" just to mean looking in someone's direction. You're right that "at" is better there. :) This is why English is so confusing!!
The quotation marks (" " vs. ' ') thing doesn't bother me because that seems to vary even among English-speaking countries. Here in the U.S., we use the double quotation marks (" "), but I guess in the U.K., they only use single (' ')? I never knew that until I studied abroad in Scotland, and I got the 6th Harry Potter book there when it came out, and I didn't even notice until probably halfway through the book, but all the dialogue in it only uses single quotation marks. Oddly enough, it never bothered me because, like I said, I didn't even notice for a long time LOL. As long as you're using SOMETHING to separate your dialogue from the narration, you're fine.
And Amy, as far as I know, it can be either one. Again, that's why prepositions are confusing LOL. They both sound right to me, but I don't know.
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Btw, this is the page Amy mentioned. I wrote this tutorial I don't know how many years ago out of frustration about the grammar in stories people were submitting to be hosted on my site. It just covers some basics.
http://www.dreamers-sanctuary.com/mechanics.html
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I've always used " " for quotation marks, it's the way we learned in school. But as you say, as long as there is either " " or ' ' it doesn't matter.
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I've always used " " for quotation marks, it's the way we learned in school. But as you say, as long as there is either " " or ' ' it doesn't matter.
That's interesting... I wonder why some books published in the UK only use one. Are all of them that way, or is it just certain ones? Because you're right; I haven't noticed it in fanfics; you do use the double quotations. It really doesn't matter; I'm just curious.
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I have to admit when I start reading a story and come across, "I seen this!" I usually stop reading instantly! Even if someone posts something and uses "I seen," I just think it sounds ignorant. I had no idea there were parts of the country where all they do is say that! I would be stabbing my ears! lmao
It's bad enough I live in a place where they say Mayan instead of mine!
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It does sound ignorant. The town I teach in is very "white trash" (no offense to anyone), and some of my students say "I seen" because their parents say it. It hurts my ears. To me, it's bad enough to talk that way, but when you really don't know any better and WRITE it that way... that's definitely ignorant. We all make grammar mistakes when we speak; I will say things like "Me and so-and-so are going to do this," but I would never WRITE that (and even when I say it, I can hear my grandma going "She and I are going to do this..." (I come from a family of teachers; I'm a Grammar Nazi for a reason LOL.) Another example would be using text-speak when texting compared to when writing a story. When you're limited to a number of characters or don't have a QWERTY keyboard, I can totally understand shortening things up, but when you don't realize that's unacceptable to do in formal writing, that's a problem.
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That's interesting... I wonder why some books published in the UK only use one. Are all of them that way, or is it just certain ones? Because you're right; I haven't noticed it in fanfics; you do use the double quotations. It really doesn't matter; I'm just curious.
Weird! I've just checked the book I'm currently reading and the quotation marks are ' ', so now I'm curious too.
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Oh yes, I hate text talk too, even in texts, lol! But in stories, then definitely not.
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I know; I don't use text talk in texts either. The only time I do is if I absolutely need to to fit it into one text or tweet. This is why I don't like word/character limits. :)
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Same here, that's why I keep my texts and tweets nice and short :)
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Ugh, that's annoying too...
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Not heard that one before!
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I overheard someone at Target say today that they had to stick to their strict code of ethnics! lol instead of ethics. I got a huge kick out of that!
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I overheard someone at Target say today that they had to stick to their strict code of ethnics! lol instead of ethics. I got a huge kick out of that!
LOL!
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Today's homophones...
They're/Their/There:
They're is a contraction that means "they are." They're going on the Bsb cruise in December.
Just like with you're, the rule is simple: if you can replace it with THEY ARE, use THEY'RE.
Their, like your, shows ownership. Which one is their cabin?
If it belongs to them, use their.
There is what you use when it doesn't mean "they are" or something that belongs to "them." There can be a place or is used before a linking verb, like is/are. Their cabin is over there. (See the difference?) There are lots of freaky fans on this cruise!
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Punctuation is a big one! I will probably do punctuation after I finish homophones; I LOVE punctuation, especially commas! You were right with the comma when you said "Eventually, I will double check everything..." "Eventually" is a transition word, and you always use a comma after those (or before, if it comes at the end of the sentence - "I will double check everything, eventually.")
You could also say "I will eventually double check everything."
But wouldn't it also be correct to say "I will, eventually, double check everything"? I thought I read something like that in "Eats, shoots and leaves." (or whatever the book is called lol). She was talking about commas and how a lot of them are optional.
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I'm with whoever mentioned having comma issues. I've had people tell me I'm a comma nut...that I over use them. In my mind, I seem to think I need them. ??? But...thanks to Google...I found this site that explains 21 rules of comma usage, and also gives examples. The site also has a drop down bar, on the right, which allows you to look at other punctuation rules.
http://www.grammarbook.com/punctuation/commas.asp
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You could also say "I will eventually double check everything."
But wouldn't it also be correct to say "I will, eventually, double check everything"? I thought I read something like that in "Eats, shoots and leaves." (or whatever the book is called lol). She was talking about commas and how a lot of them are optional.
Yeah, you wouldn't need comma in that case. I guess it depends on where you stick a word like "eventually." I love the woman who wrote that book; she is my hero! She has at least two books for kids like that; one is "Eats, Shoots and Leaves" (about commas) and the other is "Girls Like Spaghetti" (about apostrophes). It has sentences written two different ways, based on where the punctuation is, and then illustrated to show how the meaning changes... like "The girls like spaghetti." just shows some girls enjoying their spaghetti, but "The girl's like spaghetti." shows a girl with skinny spaghetti arms and legs. It's very cute.
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I'm with whoever mentioned having comma issues. I've had people tell me I'm a comma nut...that I over use them. In my mind, I seem to think I need them. ??? But...thanks to Google...I found this site that explains 21 rules of comma usage, and also gives examples. The site also has a drop down bar, on the right, which allows you to look at other punctuation rules.
http://www.grammarbook.com/punctuation/commas.asp
That's awesome!! Forget me trying to write about all the appropriate ways to use commas; everyone just read that site LOL.
Commas definitely seem to be the most misused punctuation; some people need to use more of them, and others use too many or use them inappropriatel y, like in place of a period or semicolon.
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:broccoli: WooHoo! I saved Julie from an unnecessary hand cramp!
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Yeah, you wouldn't need comma in that case. I guess it depends on where you stick a word like "eventually." I love the woman who wrote that book; she is my hero! She has at least two books for kids like that; one is "Eats, Shoots and Leaves" (about commas) and the other is "Girls Like Spaghetti" (about apostrophes). It has sentences written two different ways, based on where the punctuation is, and then illustrated to show how the meaning changes... like "The girls like spaghetti." just shows some girls enjoying their spaghetti, but "The girl's like spaghetti." shows a girl with skinny spaghetti arms and legs. It's very cute.
Oh I never heard the of "Girls Like Spaghetti"!! I should look at that one too LOL
btw, there's one punctuation rule that I've never liked and that I refuse to follow, lol. It's the rule of where ending punctuation goes when you have quotation marks. An example would be my first sentence in this post. I don't like the rule because the title of that book does not have exclamation points in it. I am adding the exclamation points to mark the end of MY sentence, so therefore, I have rebelliously chosen to ignore that rule and place my exclamation points on the outside of the quotation marks rather than the inside (which is where they're supposed to be, according to the punctuation rules of the English language). :P
You and I talked about that rule awhile back, I think.
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LOL that makes sense; I break that one sometimes, too, when it doesn't look right. "As long as you put the punctuation inside the quotation marks when writing dialogue," I say, "it's all good!"
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I'm sure I don't always put the comma in the right place :)
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I know I overuse commas lol
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LOL that makes sense; I break that one sometimes, too, when it doesn't look right. "As long as you put the punctuation inside the quotation marks when writing dialogue," I say, "it's all good!"
Yeah, that's how I feel about it as well. LOL
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I'm with whoever mentioned having comma issues. I've had people tell me I'm a comma nut...that I over use them. In my mind, I seem to think I need them. ??? But...thanks to Google...I found this site that explains 21 rules of comma usage, and also gives examples. The site also has a drop down bar, on the right, which allows you to look at other punctuation rules.
http://www.grammarbook.com/punctuation/commas.asp
Oooh, you just saved my life! Well, not literally. I think you rather saved my stories! LOL! Thanks! ;D
Oh and thanks RokOfAges75 (I forgot your name) for the help. I think I get the "I look to you" rule, even though I had to think about it for a few minutes. It is pretty confusing. :D
I never use text-speak in fanfics. I will never write something like: "OMG! What happened here?!" Then I will write "Oh my God!". Same for wtf (or wth), btw, tbh, idc.. etc. Though I don't use idc that often. I only use them in conversations on MSN or in texts (even when I'm texting in Dutch I use things like wtf and btw. I can't live without English lol! But that's also part of the language of the "youth").
I'm also relieved to know that prepositions is a common issue. I remember my English teacher explained the rules a thousand times but still I got confused. :D
Oh, talking about shorts. Once, I read a fanfic with something like, "LOL! That was funny, man!" Nick said. "LMAO! I know, right?" Brian replied. I mean, do people actually say LOL and LMAO in real life? I've seen (Na-ah not I seen) a movie once where a girl was like "OH EM GEE!". It was the first time I heard someone actually say it so I thought to myself "why not say oh my God?". But yeah, if I see a fanfic with OMG, LMAO and stuff, I skip it automatically. That's a big no-no!
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I get annoyed with myself if I go back and reread for inspiration and I find typos...and I am typo city!! I don't notice when I post and it is always things that spellcheck misses! Oftentimes, it doesn't matter how many times I reread it, I will miss certain things until it is posted. I am too lazy to go back and make corrections 40 chapters later...horrib le I know.
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I am so bad with typos! My fingers type faster then my brain processes and then I don't see them until after I post! lol
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Some of my standards are things like he instead of her, or a forgotten a or an or other word that doesnt make an incomplete sentence...
Glad I am not the only one!
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I normally have hardly any typos in my writing, but I was going though old essays from college and there was one with a TON of typos. EEK! I cringed so bad, thinking, "What the hell was my problem that day??"
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Can I also mention in here the differences between USA and English words? Some people might read my stories and think things like 'you don't spell favourite with a u in the middle, she can't spell' etc, etc. I just want to point out that some of our spellings are different and it's not that I'm crap at spelling ;D
Sorry to go slightly off the topic!
They make fun of my u's all the time, so we can band together on this one.
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Your "u" Julilly was something I got used to over the years :)
http://grammar.quickanddirtytips.com/
is a site I use off and on, in case anybody is looking for another helpful tool
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Sorry I have slacked off on updating this every day like I said I would. No time!
I know what you mean about the typos, Darby. Those are tough because, like you said, spellcheck doesn't always catch them (if it's a case of "he" instead of "her" or just leaving out a word, like your examples), and even if you really proofread it, your eyes still might fill in the missing stuff because YOU know what you meant to say. That's why it is nice to have a beta read it; it's easier to catch mistakes in someone else's work than in in your own. I always proofread my chapters before posting, but even then, I still find typos in them later, or someone else does LOL.
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That happens to me too, I'll read it and think it looks OK, then I realise I've missed a word.
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aww poor Steph lol
Realise is one of those words we were talking about earlier.
realize here, realise in Europe
English is a weird beast.
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Oh yeah, or the Canadian vs. US spellings. Sometimes it really bothers me, but I've been dealing with it better recently. haha
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*tsk* um exscuse me, but realize is spelled with a "z" ;P :whip: :nyahnyah:
sorry had to do it. :)
Um, excuse me (which only has one "s" by the way), Americans don't know how to write proper English.
I don't need to follow up with a slew of smilies to make it seem like I'm joking either, because I'm not.
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As a non-native English speaker, I say that none of the spellings bother me (although I've never seen Canadian spelling, or maybe I did but never knew it was Canadian lol). The English teachers I've had are all confusing as hell. One teaches us to spell the British way (or do you say 'English way'?) and others teach us to spell the American way. Like, what the hell. :( Same with pronouncing things. For example the word 'fast'. (Or words like dance, mask, past, class, can't etc) I don't know how to explain it but I guess you know how Brits pronounce 'fast' and how Americans pronounce 'fast'. I've had teachers who were totally into the British pronouncing and other teachers were totally into the American pronouncing.
So, at some point I chose which way I wanted to write 'cause I started to mix up both spellings, and I chose American. Not because I don't like the British (English?) spelling and pronouncing (in fact, I find it really pretty) but because I listen to a lot of American artists and I'm signed up on American websites, so that's why. I used to have contact with a girl from Wales and one from London and I loved their slang and typical words like 'rubbish' and stuff. I learnt a lot from those girls but not long later I got in contact with an American girl so when she said something like "it sucks" I replied with "yeah, it's rubbish" and she was like "huh, what?" then I was like "oops!" to myself. :D
It's too bad I lost contact with all of them. It's hard keeping contact only via the internet. ::)
Anyway, for me it doesn't matter if I read a fanfic written by someone from the UK or someone from the USA 'cause I've been taught both ways. :D
Oh, something off-topic but one time in English class we had a spelling test at the same moment I chose to spell and pronounce the American way. However, I forgot my current teacher loves the UK (she visits London ten times a year... no seriously). So, she put the test in front of us where you had to translate Dutch sentences to English. Many words could've been spelled differently; British and American. But I spelled everything the American way so when she let everybody say their answer one at a time and it was my turn to tell how I spelled it, my teacher said "no, you're wrong. It's this, you spelled it the American way". So I replied with, "But ma'am, this is English class. No one ever said if this was British English or American English. How am I supposed to know?" (mind you, we had to speak English throughout the whole class unless someone really doesn't understand it or doesn't know.. and I had a lot of people in my class who didn't know anything at all) Ever since then she accepts both ways. ;D
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As a non-native English speaker, I say that none of the spellings bother me (although I've never seen Canadian spelling, or maybe I did but never knew it was Canadian lol). The English teachers I've had are all confusing as hell. One teaches us to spell the British way (or do you say 'English way'?) and others teach us to spell the American way.
Canadian spellings are the same as English way. :)
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That is interesting, Imke. I don't know why there's such a difference. America likes to do its own thing, I guess. We're like the only country that uses Fahrenheit for temperature and the customary system of measurement, instead of Celsius and metric. The only time we ever use Celsius and metric is in school (or if your job involves science, obviously). It would be much easier if we just went along with the rest of the world! LOL
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My degree was in English/Writing, and I'm in the process of getting licensed to teach it, so I really do love this thread! I'm enjoying reading the daily grammar lessons. :)
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Eh, not so daily anymore - sorry! Anyone else, feel free to keep posting homophones, or we can move on to something else LOL. I was gonna do punctuation next.
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Have we had were, where and we're yet?
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OK, I looked back and we haven't had were, where and we're yet, so I'll do them. Here are some examples although I'm not as good as Julie with the explanations, so I'll leave that part out!
Where are you going?
We were at the Backstreet Boys concert last night and it was fantastic.
We're (we are) going to the cinema to see Toy Story 3 if you want to join us.
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I'll add on a few at some point today as well, but like Steph said, i'm not that great at explaining why the rules are the way they are either. I just kind of know them, if that makes any sense? I'm the music teacher so ask me how to finger an 'f' on the flute and i'm your girl. This stuff, not so much! lol
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That is interesting, Imke. I don't know why there's such a difference. America likes to do its own thing, I guess. We're like the only country that uses Fahrenheit for temperature and the customary system of measurement, instead of Celsius and metric. The only time we ever use Celsius and metric is in school (or if your job involves science, obviously). It would be much easier if we just went along with the rest of the world! LOL
Heh, I've been taught how much Fahrenheit is how much Celcius at English class too but I keep forgetting so when I see a temperature mentioned in Fahrenheit I automatically think in Celcius and I go like "THAT IS RIDICULOUSLY HOT! HOW CAN YOU SURVIVE? Oh wait... heeeh". I found out not so long ago how many dollars is how many euros. :D And I know the Japanese yen and British pound since last week lmao! The Swedish crown was the first one I knew 'cause my best friend lives in Sweden. :) It's easier than I thought! (And I have eeh... dyscalculia? So it's harder for me to calculate from one currency to another. I have trouble calculating and anything with numbers in general lol) I think dollars are the easiest. I got so confused with Swedish crowns last year even though it was my second time in Sweden. For example, I saw a shirt for 200 crowns, which is 20 euros (which is about 25 dollars) but I kept on thinking in euros so I was like "HOLY CRAP 200 EUROS FOR A SHIRT?! ... oh wait". Similar to Fahrenheit-Celcius. :D
Ok, I'm getting off-topic lol.
Where, were, we're is a really good one. :)
I can't think of any 'complication' atm, but as soon as I stumble upon one I will check this topic and mention it!
Oh wait! I stumbled upon one this afternoon... OH YES!
When I write someone is for example going to bed.. is he/she lying down or laying down? Is it "he lied down" or "he layed down"? And is it "he lies down"? I'm confused 'cause you also got "You lied to me!" "Stop lying (lieying? that looks weird)". It's something I've been wondering for ages but always forgot to ask!
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OK, I looked back and we haven't had were, where and we're yet, so I'll do them. Here are some examples although I'm not as good as Julie with the explanations, so I'll leave that part out!
Where are you going?
We were at the Backstreet Boys concert last night and it was fantastic.
We're (we are) going to the cinema to see Toy Story 3 if you want to join us.
Good one! Thanks, Steph!
I hate when people just don't put the apostrophe in "we're," even though they know better. Even on a phone, it's not that tough to do; it just takes a few more seconds.
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Oh wait! I stumbled upon one this afternoon... OH YES!
When I write someone is for example going to bed.. is he/she lying down or laying down? Is it "he lied down" or "he layed down"? And is it "he lies down"? I'm confused 'cause you also got "You lied to me!" "Stop lying (lieying? that looks weird)". It's something I've been wondering for ages but always forgot to ask!
Ooh, this is a GREAT one!! Trust me, this is confusing even for native English-speakers, and many, many people mix them up.
To start out, there are two different verbs - "to lie" and "to lay." "To lie," as in "I'm going to lie down on my bed and take a nap," and "to lay" as in "I'm going to lay my outfit out on my bed." You use "lie" when referring to yourself and "lay" when referring to an object.
Where it gets really confusing is with the verb tenses. The past tense of "lie" (in that case) is "lay." The past tense of "lay" is "laid." So you would say "I lay down on my bed and take a nap" and "I laid my outfit out on my bed."
Also confusing is the fact that "to lie" can also mean to TELL a lie, but the past tense of that verb is "lied." I think most native English speakers know that it just sounds wrong to say "I lied down on my bed," though.
Here's an article that explains this in depth: http://grammar.quickanddirtytips.com/lay-versus-lie.aspx I Googled it to double-check and make sure I was explaining this correctly, 'cause it really is easy to get confused!!
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^ I have trouble with lay and lie. I always have to go back and look it up, always! lol
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It really is ridiculously confusing! I'm good at the whole grammar thing, but I second guess myself on that one, too.
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It's the past tense that gets me because it sounds so wrong to use lay in past tense. lol It's like my brain refuses to believe that it is correct.
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I know; that's what makes it so hard.
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Julie that makes a little more sense, thanks. Lie/Lay is one that always trips me up and probably always will.
Have we done effect and affect yet? I know they aren't homophones but darn confusing.
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That's another good one.
Effect is a noun, and affect is a verb. If something AFFECTS you, you could say it has an EFFECT on you.
That movie had great special effects!
That movie was so emotional, it really affected me.
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I always have to read my sentences over if I use effect or affect to make sure I've used the right one. Sometimes I have to get Amanda to help me if I can't figure it out. Thanks as always Julie. :) (don't be surprised if I ask you grammar questions some night, it's only cause you rock)
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Honestly I must say I love this thread! I have dyslexia and therefore do not use proper grammar when it comes to spelling things. Things such as homonyms. (by the way when I first read [pronounced like the color] the word 'homonym' I said it like 'hoe moe' not 'hom oh'.) I am always looking for way to improve myself and while things like this are looked at as funny it really does help!
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Thanks for the explanation, Julie! I'm glad it's a common confusion and not just me. :D I'll save this in my special Word document. I put all the slang, certain expressions or just sentences I might want to use sometime in it. When I read a fanfic I might save some sentences in the document whether* they are funny or cool or just something I couldn't think of myself. Examples are: "I wasn't going to sugarcoat it", 'A smirk of triumph curled Damon's lips.' (Vampire Diaries fanfic heh), 'I puffed out my cheeks and let out a big gust of air.' (I think this is from one of evergreen's fanfics). I hope it's ok if I ever use sentences like these, 'cause I practically copied them from other fanfics. :hidesface:
I also put translations of words I keep forgetting in it. So when I write, I open that document and see if I can use anything from it. I will save lots of stuff from this topic in that document. ;D
I used to have problems with eh.. I don't know if there's a word for it but when I first started writing fanfic (which was in 2007 or so) in English I only used 'she said', 'she asked', 'he yelled', 'he screamed', 'she replied'. It was really limited and I was sick of it at one point. I didn't know any other words really, so I often watch things like that too (and save them in my special document hehe). Now, I know words like retorted, scowled, grunted, inquired, huffed, seethed etc. But also things like he glared, snorted etc. I hope I didn't confuse anyone but I have no idea if there's a specific word for this. :shrug:
I don't use the words effect & affect that much but I'll save it in my document too. I bet I will stumble upon it sometime. :)
* Whether/weather (sometimes even wheather) is one I see pretty often too!
Can I give it a try and explain it? I'll try. :-\
Whether/weather/wheather
Whether is a conjunction. - "I don't know whether it's possible.”
Or you can use it to introduce alternatives. - He can't decide whether to go or not/He can't decide whether or not to go.
Weather is, simply, the weather. Like heat or cold, wind, rain, snow etc. - "The weather is too hot for me.” or "How's the weather?" The weatherman presents the weather forecast. :)
The word wheather doesn't excist.
And? How did I do? :)
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Oh btw, I know we didn't come to punctuation, but a few months ago or so I saw this Facebook group which cracked me up so much 'cause it's true!
It's something like this:
"Let's eat grandma!" - "Let's eat, grandma!". Punctuation saves lives.
I think others know this one too, but I think it's brilliant. :) I can't wait till we get to the punctuation part 'cause that's one I'd like to learn (and remember).
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(Sorry for the 3rd post in a row)
Julie, is it ok if I post your 'lessons' on a stories forum and a fanforum (no BSB) I know? One is a forum where you can post both original and fanfiction (there aren't any BSB fanfics till now) and the other is a fanforum of a Spanish boyband I used to love lol (my first fanfics are about them). Almost all members on there have English as their second/third etc language and I thought it might be good if I start a "Improve your English!" topic or something, 'cause I know some of them could use it. :)
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Imke:
1) Great job on the weather/whether explanation!
2) LMAO at the "Let's eat Grandma!" Facebook group. Love it!
3) Yes, you can absolutely re-post my stuff on another forum. Go for it! :)
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Honestly I must say I love this thread! I have dyslexia and therefore do not use proper grammar when it comes to spelling things. Things such as homonyms. (by the way when I first read [pronounced like the color] the word 'homonym' I said it like 'hoe moe' not 'hom oh'.) I am always looking for way to improve myself and while things like this are looked at as funny it really does help!
Glad it's helping you out! I really did mean it to be helpful; it's a good place to rant about poor grammar, but it's also good for people who are serious about improving that aspect of their writing.
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Alright Julie, or anyone else who can explain this well. Than/Then, I think I am worse at these two than I am with Effect/Affect. Help! :)
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Than is a comparison, Then indicates time.
There are more mushrooms than peppers in this sauce.
Wash your clothes then put them in the dryer.
The WRONG way to use them:
I'm a better speller then you! (than would be the correct word)
Every now and than I go to McDonald's. (then would be right.)
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I thought that's how it was but my grammar check on my computer was telling me when I used "then" in my sentence it was wrong, but I used it in the way it was supposed to according to your sentence below. Maybe I have it right in my head and the grammar check has issues, or maybe there was something else wrong ... hrm.
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What was the sentence, Lore?
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I can't remember, it was for a work e-mail I don't memorize those. Once I am home I try to forget all things work. :)
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LOL That's okay, I understand. :)
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I thought that's how it was but my grammar check on my computer was telling me when I used "then" in my sentence it was wrong, but I used it in the way it was supposed to according to your sentence below. Maybe I have it right in my head and the grammar check has issues, or maybe there was something else wrong ... hrm.
Often times grammar check will pick up on something that is technically right if there is something else wrong in the sentence.
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Oh btw, I know we didn't come to punctuation, but a few months ago or so I saw this Facebook group which cracked me up so much 'cause it's true!
It's something like this:
"Let's eat grandma!" - "Let's eat, grandma!". Punctuation saves lives.
I think others know this one too, but I think it's brilliant. :) I can't wait till we get to the punctuation part 'cause that's one I'd like to learn (and remember).
Haha! Love that. It reminds me of an example my boss used to use in the Writing Center:
A Panda Bear walks into a bar. He eats, shoots, and leaves.
vs.
A Panda Bear walks into a bar. He eats shoots and leaves. :)
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^ That's where the book "Eats, Shoots & Leaves" by Lynne Truss comes from. I have the original version, which I've never read all the way through, and also her children's books, which I read to my students.
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ok... so what if the proper way to do like... a paragraph? Are you supposed to made a new one every time someone new begins to speak? or can a paragraph have more the one person talking? Also is there a right versus wrong way to end and begin paragraphs?
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Yes, you should make a new paragraph every time someone new speaks. It's too confusing to have multiple people speaking in the same paragraph, and it's just not correct.
Each time a character finishes what they are saying and you add whatever else you need to (the description, etc) you should hit return/enter and start a new line. There's not really a set way to end and begin them, you can have description followed by dialogue or the other way around.
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so length of paragraph does not matter?
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so length of paragraph does not matter?
No. Like...
"No," She replied, tossing back her hair. It'd been a long day and she was tired. Between school, work, and everything else she'd accomplished, going out wasn't a priority right then. To be quite honest, she was a bit of a homebody anyway. She'd always been that way and she doubted that would ever change. It was just a shame her friends didn't understand that about her.
"Are you sure?"
"Yes, I'm sure." She stated firmly once more.
"Okay then."
That's how it should look when you're doing dialogue. If you put it all in one paragraph, not only is it incorrect, but it's really messy to read. Not to mention, being able to tell what character is talking becomes more difficult as well.
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ok... so what if the proper way to do like... a paragraph? Are you supposed to made a new one every time someone new begins to speak? or can a paragraph have more the one person talking? Also is there a right versus wrong way to end and begin paragraphs?
That was a good question to ask. :) I know that I have difficulty reading stories posted on here-- or anywhere-- that don't follow the new paragraph for a new speaker rule. When the dialogue is bunched together in one, long paragraph, my interest just disappears. I feel like I'm having to work to read instead of just enjoying the story. LoL
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That was a good question to ask. :) I know that I have difficulty reading stories posted on here-- or anywhere-- that don't follow the new paragraph for a new speaker rule. When the dialogue is bunched together in one, long paragraph, my interest just disappears. I feel like I'm having to work to read instead of just enjoying the story. LoL
You're absolutely right. You end up going 'wait -- who said that?' and losing your place in the story. It's much too confusing.
There's a principle that I always use when I'm writing and I do the same for when I'm writing for work. Assume that everyone is naive, and has absolutely no idea what you're talking about. Just because you understand it doesn't mean everyone else does because you know what you're trying to get across.
So if you're referencing something, make sure you put what it is. If a new person is speaking, make sure we know who it is. We don't know what you know.
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Great question, J-Lynn, and the answers you got are right. I'm the same way as ForeverFrick; if I see a story written in HUGE paragraphs with dialogue by multiple characters clumped together in the same paragraph, I just stop reading; that's a sign of bad writing to me, and it's not worth the extra effort it takes me to decipher what's happening in the story and who's saying what. More, shorter paragraphs are better than fewer, longer ones. When in doubt, just start a new paragraph.
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Great question, J-Lynn, and the answers you got are right. I'm the same way as ForeverFrick; if I see a story written in HUGE paragraphs with dialogue by multiple characters clumped together in the same paragraph, I just stop reading; that's a sign of bad writing to me, and it's not worth the extra effort it takes me to decipher what's happening in the story and who's saying what. More, shorter paragraphs are better than fewer, longer ones. When in doubt, just start a new paragraph.
Ditto, when I see a story posted like that, I immediately click out. It's not worth it to me, and like you, I see it as a bad of bad writing. I'm a fanfic snob LOL
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I can't stand it when a chapter is just one big chunk without any paragraphs. Before I started posting fanfic on AC, I first read other fanfic, also to see how they made the paragraphs 'cause I wasn't sure.
I still got a feeling some of my paragraphs are too big, but on the other hand, I don't want to separate them into two paragraphs 'cause I feel like it should stick together as one. So, I just end up in an eenie meeney miney mo situation and in the end, it will still stick together as one paragraph anyway lol!
But a story with no paragraphs is a no-no. I don't even bother reading the first line.
At a Dutch BSB forum where I'm a member of, they post fanfics too. Some are in Dutch, others in English. But they don't insert paragraphs at all. And they wonder why I don't read them lol.
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If I see it all clumped together, I click out of the story too. It's too much work to try and understand when it's all jumbled together.
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ok so what if it is... like all one person talking. like someones point of view but they are not saying what someone else said. Like... im trying to describe this.... like all you are hearing is the persons thought. perhaps like you are reading a journal entry. Make sense? How would that be written?
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ok so what if it is... like all one person talking. like someones point of view but they are not saying what someone else said. Like... im trying to describe this.... like all you are hearing is the persons thought. perhaps like you are reading a journal entry. Make sense? How would that be written?
Maybe it would be easier to post a little bit of it so it's easier to understand what you mean.
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ok so what if it is... like all one person talking. like someones point of view but they are not saying what someone else said. Like... im trying to describe this.... like all you are hearing is the persons thought. perhaps like you are reading a journal entry. Make sense? How would that be written?
If you go to the beta thread I actually started a thread just for your story and I explained what you should do in there. or maybe post in the beta threa more specifically what you mean. Use an example like Steph said, but not in here. I know when I write journal entrees I use italics.
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When I do actual thoughts (not point of views, but actual mental musings) I typically use italics. Or at least ''s.
So...
"Yeah, I'm fine." He replied smoothly. That's what she thinks.
Or...
""Yeah, I'm fine." He replied smoothly. 'That's what she thinks.' He added on mentally.
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Another way to think of paragraphing is that a paragraph is all about one "thing." When you move on to something else, like a change in scenery or action or thought, you start a new paragraph.
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This doesn't have anything to do with grammar but it does have to do with English language.
For example, at a highschool you got a big hall where the students have lunch and a kitchen where food is prepared.
What is that called in America? I don't know if there's a different word for it in the UK. If there is, I need the word in American English. :) I've looked up several things and I see words like cafeteria and canteen but I'm not sure what's the right word and if those are even the correct words for that.
I've had this issue with my friend from Sweden. When she came over at my place, she found it weird that I kept saying 'canteen'. It's the name for those rooms in Holland. Apparently, in Sweden they say 'cafeteria'.
I need this for a challenge I'm participating in. ;)
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It's a cafeteria in the U.S. :)
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It's a cafeteria in the U.S. :)
Thank you! :cheshire:
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Yeah, cafeteria. Another word we use is "commons." But that's usually only when that area is used for lunch, the gym, and other stuff. Kind of a "multipurpose room."
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We say canteen here :)
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When do you use "onto" opposed to "on to" and same with "into" and "in to" is there a difference?
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Both of them follow the same rule...
Into is a preposition.
--- When he walked into the room, he found that the meeting had already started.
With in to, in is an adverb and to is a preposition.
--- She turned her paper in to the teacher. NOT She turned her paper into the teacher. (which would be magical!)
Same rules apply with onto and on to. Hope that helps! :)
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it helps with "into" and "in to"
They held on to their religion, their faith. ... or They held onto their religion, their faith. I am leaning towards the first one but not sure if that's correct.
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I would choose the first one, "They held on to their religion". Try breaking it down "They held on // to their relgion". By saying "They held onto their religion" it implies something is on top of their religion, which isn't possible.
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That's what I was leaning towards but for some reason the rules for those escaped me today. Thanks for your help.
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No problem!
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Got a few more questions!
What are the rules for further and farther?
And when do you use who and whom? Same thing for what and which.
I'm never sure if I use them correctly, so I just pick the one that seems the most correct to me. But I'm always afraid I picked the wrong one!
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This is how I've always thought it to be:
Further = More
Farther = Longer distance
Examples:
1. "Are there any further questions about the assignment?"
2. "I'm too tired to hike any farther."
Not positive, but that's what I've always believed.
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Look! There are Grammar Nazis out there worse than most of us! lol
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=130103176&sc=fb&cc=fp
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That is great! Thanks for sharing.
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Aww, I didn't know there was a National Punctuation Day! I could have celebrated with my class! And next year it will probably be on a Saturday. Boo!
I love that article!
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Look! There are Grammar Nazis out there worse than most of us! lol
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=130103176&sc=fb&cc=fp
Great article!
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Look! There are Grammar Nazis out there worse than most of us! lol
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=130103176&sc=fb&cc=fp
Haha! My former English teacher uses that website for assignments! :o She clicks on "Listen to the Story" and then we have to take notes. She asks us questions to see how good we are at hearing and understanding English. Funny to see the website back!
Great article btw! The commas are still an issue for me, but all the rest is a pet peeve to me as well.
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What the right way to spell and use... A lot? Allot? Alot?
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a lot
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A lot, meaning a great deal. Think of it this way, the opposite of a lot would be a little. You wouldn't say alittle.
Of course, a lot could also be used in the context of "A lot of five computers" lot meaning a set of objects.
Allot is a completely different word. You allot an object, it's a verb. "I will allot 10 minutes for my speech."
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Man, I've been googling grammar a lot today in my writing. Do you ever have those moments where you're not sure which word is right? I've done it twice today, with shined vs. shone (as in "shined a flashlight") and racked vs. wracked (as in "racked my brain"). I did not too long ago with some other verb that I wasn't sure of the past tense. The English language can be so confusing, with all its rule-breakers and homophones! I consider myself a Grammar Nazi, and even I second guess myself and have to look stuff up sometimes.
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I have the same thing with "raised" and "rose". I just guess most of the time but I'm still anxious. I guess every language has a few rule-breakers and exceptions. Dutch has it too but that whole language doesn't make sense LOL. Especially Dutch grammar is confusing and illogical so major thumbs up to people emigrating to Holland and have to learn the language.
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That's another good one! Kinda like "shined/shone" or "laid/lay" (which is even more confusing). "Raised" is the past tense of "raise," and "rose" is the past tense of "rise." "Raise" and "rise" are similar, but not quite the same. I raised my glass as the sun rose... "raise" is something you do to an object, but if the object is doing it itself, it's "rise" - if that makes any kind of sense. I know it has to be even harder when English isn't your first language and you're not sure what SOUNDS right.
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I try my very best to use proper grammar....but just reading this gives me one hell of a headache! LMAO!
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That's another good one! Kinda like "shined/shone" or "laid/lay" (which is even more confusing). "Raised" is the past tense of "raise," and "rose" is the past tense of "rise." "Raise" and "rise" are similar, but not quite the same. I raised my glass as the sun rose... "raise" is something you do to an object, but if the object is doing it itself, it's "rise" - if that makes any kind of sense. I know it has to be even harder when English isn't your first language and you're not sure what SOUNDS right.
It does makes sense. :) So, you raise/raised your eyebrows? I think I keep switching between "I raised my eyebrows" and "I rose my eyebrows" in my fanfics LOL. It's like it's 50% correct. :D But I'm kind of a perfectionist when it comes to grammar and spelling, so I still want to know which 50% is correct.
When it comes to these kind of words, I have NO idea what sounds right, exactly. Most of the time I can hear what sounds completely wrong but not with these ones. :P
Oooh! I just thought of another one that I'm always not sure of. The past tense of "to learn". Is that "learned" or "learnt"? Mostly, when I read a word, I can sense if it's wrong or right but I have double feelings with these ones. :shrug:
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Yeah, it's definitely "raised my eyebrows."
Learned/learnt is another good one. Technically, they are both correct - the difference is in American vs. British English. I'm from the United States, and I always use "learned," but I know in the UK they use "learnt," so either one is acceptable. Same with spelled/spelt, and I'm sure there are other similar examples, too.