Absolute Chaos Discussion Boards
Fic Talk => General Discussion => Topic started by: RokofAges75 on June 24, 2007, 04:43:36 PM
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Since this idea has been getting so much discussion in the stars thread, I thought I'd start a new thread for it.
We've been talking about starting one of those review sites, where authors can submit their stories to be read and critiqued in a comprehensive, detailed review. I think the goal right now is to connect it to AC somehow, but that's up to Chaos, and I don't know his take on it.
In any case, the idea so far is to get maybe one or two reviewers for each genre; those reviewers would only read stories in that genre, to keep it as fair and non-biased as possible. We would have to come up with some sort of rubric with different areas and point values for a story to be rated on.
So if you think it's a good idea and are interested at all (in planning the rubric, actually reviewing, sending your story in, anything!), jump in and add your two cents! :)
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I'll help you write up the rubric, Julie. :)
And I already said I'd be a reviewer. I'd probably go for the fantasy, supernatural, AU, or occulty stuff.... Any of those, I'm good for. *thumbs up* I could do sci-fi... But it would really depend on how much the lines blurred between it and fantasy.
I guess, basically, I'll see what we get and hop on if I can be of any help.
PS... Who wants to review PBox for me, because I'll definitely be submitting it. :D
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i'll help you with the rubric :) not sure about the reviewing just yet though lol
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Will you also use your charm to convice Chaos to get it connected? *bats eyelashes* :-*
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I'll help where ever I can. ;D
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Thanks guys! ;D
If Chaos doesn't want to connect it to AC, I can put it on my domain.
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I'd submit :) and I would also totally review sci-fi hehe.
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So we have at least one volunteer for fantasy (and similar genres) and sci-fi. Kelly, you would want to do romance - am I right? I would want the drama/angst types.
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Looks that way. Hooray. :)
Rose, does that mean that if I submitted PBox, it would be your job to look it over?
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Looks that way. Hooray. :)
Rose, does that mean that if I submitted PBox, it would be your job to look it over?
Probably...LOL I've been meaning to read it, so it works. It's fantasy right? But yeah cause you can't review your own story :D
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It is fantasy. But, I don't know how well it would work me reading over my own... :D
I'm sure it will be featured one of these days... :) And then that would make it easier for everyone involved. *nod*
Mechanics is one of the things the stories should be graded on....
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That's why it would be nice to have two reviewers per genre - one, it would split up the work, and two, then you could submit your own story even if you're reviewing in that genre.
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Mechanics is one of the things the stories should be graded on....
Definitely!!
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I would happily do romance, but there are oh so many other genres I enjoy too, so like I said, wherever you need me.
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Will you also use your charm to convice Chaos to get it connected? *bats eyelashes* :-*
LOL I can try but Chaos hasn't answered any of my emails in a gabillion years. He is MIA
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This sounds like a really great idea. I have a question though, would the stories being submitted need to be finished, or could someone submit a work in progress that they are having difficulty with? Just wondering.
Also, I know I don't post alot in here, but I read alot and would be willing to help out if needed.
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I posted this in the stars thread but if kind of fits in here so i'm posting it in here lol
I tend to ignore mechanics when I read, unless i'm proofing for people and I have stopped doing that, for fanfics anyway. When I critique it is mainly plot and storyline. I take into account a few things when I read a story and one of them is the age of the writer and if English is their first language or not.
It might not be fair to pigeon hole with age but if you are 16 and this is your first fic, i'm going to ignore a lot of the grammar errors and plot problems because they are young and it's their first. If you are 30 and this is your 40th story, it's a little different.
A good story is a good story though, so if it's lacking on grammar and has a lot of weird things in it I can easily overlook that if it's a great story that draws me in.
That being said I think on this rubric we should include age and english as a second language or something because if this is going to be used as a guide to best of the best, some of those type things need to be taken into account, at least I think so.
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Well, maybe he just needed a break or something. :) He'll be back in no time.
I think that's a good thing to note also, Mare. :) There are lots of really good writers who have learned English... I'm always jealous. I totally wish I knew French and Japanese that well.
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I'll help out as best I can. Hehe.
~Lenni~
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I agree that things like age and native language should come into play too, Mare. I ask about age from potential hosted authors on my site for just that reason. If the story is kinda crappy, but the author is 14, then that's okay - you have to start somewhere! But like you said, if they're 30, then I'm like "uhh..." I don't ask about language, but I can usually tell when English isn't someone's first language. The mistakes they make are just a little different.
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This sounds like a really great idea. I have a question though, would the stories being submitted need to be finished, or could someone submit a work in progress that they are having difficulty with? Just wondering.
Also, I know I don't post alot in here, but I read alot and would be willing to help out if needed.
That's a good question... This is my take on that: On one hand, I can see how it would be helpful to have the story critiqued as you're writing it so that you can maybe make some changes as you're going. But on the other hand, it's hard to review a story that isn't complete... cause then you can't really look at the full picture; you can only critique it on some levels.
The other thing is, who would we really be doing this for, the writers or the readers? If it's more for the writers, then I could see reviewing an unfinished story, but if it's for the readers too, I think they need to be complete. Especially since if the writers are having difficulty with them, who knows if they'll ever finish?
I guess I'm looking at this kind of thing more like a movie or album review. You don't see critics reviewing movies and albums that aren't done yet. So I would lean more towards only reviewing finished stories.
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That's a good question... This is my take on that: On one hand, I can see how it would be helpful to have the story critiqued as you're writing it so that you can maybe make some changes as you're going. But on the other hand, it's hard to review a story that isn't complete... cause then you can't really look at the full picture; you can only critique it on some levels.
The other thing is, who would we really be doing this for, the writers or the readers? If it's more for the writers, then I could see reviewing an unfinished story, but if it's for the readers too, I think they need to be complete. Especially since if the writers are having difficulty with them, who knows if they'll ever finish?
I guess I'm looking at this kind of thing more like a movie or album review. You don't see critics reviewing movies and albums that aren't done yet. So I would lean more towards only reviewing finished stories.
Yes I agree.
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Though I guess some of us could volunteer ourselves out to be beta readers from time to time. :)
If it's "My Imortal" you're asking about, I've read all of it, so... If you want some help, Rose.... :)
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I don't have time to beta read. I don't mind doing it for some stories, but if you get the kind that REALLY needs it, it takes FOREVER.
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I'll try to review romance and suspense/angst kind of stories.
With that being said, I have no idea if I'm the right person to review though.. ;D
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LOL I can try but Chaos hasn't answered any of my emails in a gabillion years. He is MIA
He is, but I don't think he would be opposed to us at least claiming to be an AC affiliate even if it's not right on the site right away. If someone has a domain they can put it on for now until we get the chance to talk to him, it might still work as an AC subdivision.
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If it's "My Imortal" you're asking about, I've read all of it, so... If you want some help, Rose.... :)
I may take you up on that. I've been kind of stuck. I hope to have the next chapter done soon. I've rewritten it several times. :)
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I don't have time to beta read. I don't mind doing it for some stories, but if you get the kind that REALLY needs it, it takes FOREVER.
That's why I stopped doing it. I found myself beta-ing more than working on my own stuff lol
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I can put it up on my domain.
And I have an idea... once we come up with a sort of rubric to use, maybe everyone who wants to review should review the same story as sort of a trial run (maybe a story outside of AC) just to 1) make sure we're all on the same page with how we're rating things, 2) test out the rubric; see if anything else should be added, and 3) get a feel for reviewing and see if we like doing it.
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The thing about not pointing out the grammatical errors though is that they won't learn how to correctly use the language. Sure maybe not make it a HUGE deal with the rubric but it still needs to be a part of it. The whole point of a review site (in my opinion) is to help the authors grow as authors and if you don't take the grammar into consideration they'll never change it.
I do get what you mean though about not making it something that could drag the story's "score" down if it's not perfect.
I might confuse myself and you all (something I find I do easily now) but point out grammar corrections/errors so the authors can improve but don't give a scoring if you'd like ... but grammar is in most writing rubrics but it can be weighted lighter. That might make sense to the other teachers in the forum, I hope at least. :-D
Was this discussed. Make the AUTHOR submit their story because it would be sucky to have your story submitted for review and it to get reviewed when maybe you weren't ready for that step yet.
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^ oh yeah I think it should only be submitted by the author lol That would be a disaster if it wasn't.
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Yes it is a disaster Mare, I lived through that with my site. The story was not submitted by the author and yeah that was a HUGE deal
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Wow I can only imagine! lol
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Oh, I definitely think grammar needs to be a part of the rubric!! Face it, there are some people (like me LOL) who will overlook a story if it's terribly written in terms of grammar and mechanics, whereas it might be a very good story, content wise, if it was proofread. Writers, no matter what age, need to know that it's important, and I do think stories should be graded down if they are full of bad grammar. That's an area of improvement just as things like character development and continuity are.
And yeah, definitely, only the author can submit their story for review LOL.
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I'd be interested in helping devise the rubric cuz Lord knows I've seen enough of them. I'm not sure about reviewing though cuz I can barely keep up with everyones stories on AC lol. Maybe I can do a lil bit now that summer is here.
For the rubric (and I'm sure my fellow teachers already know this) but there are a ton of websites where you can download a template and then edit it to your liking.
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I have some left over from my term papers and a couple from creative writing, so...
And Rose, yup, just ask. :) I don't remember if I read the last chapter you wrote, but... everything that was up on Ethereality, I read. :)
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The creative writing ones might be helpful, Dee.
Purpura, do you have anything that you used on your review site?
We really just need to make a list of areas we're critiquing, maybe sub-areas too, and a point value for each one... then we could just add up the points for a grand total at the end. Each subarea would be worth a different amount of points based on how important we think it is.
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Adding onto what I just posted, it would be helpful to also have a brief description of what each point value would look like.
Example: For grammar/spelling/mechanics (whatever we want to label that as), if it was worth 5 points, to get a 5, the story would have to be basically perfect (maybe a typo or two, but no blatant mistakes). For a 4, a few more mistakes but still well-written. 3 would be average, not horrible but not stellar either. 2, pretty bad, lots of mistakes. 1, hardly readable LOL.
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Yup, that looks just like my school rubrics. :D
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those are like many school rubrics and make "grading" things soooo much easier.
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:o Oh Oh I'd be good at reviewing, BSB and TV show crossovers!!! lol of course i've only read 2 of them but they're fantastic so i'd definitely love to read more.
PS wat the hel is a rubric? Damn you people and your big words lol
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I have some left over from my term papers and a couple from creative writing, so...
And Rose, yup, just ask. :) I don't remember if I read the last chapter you wrote, but... everything that was up on Ethereality, I read. :)
totally OT but ya know, every time I see you say Rose when I know you mean the other Rose for a moment I think you mean me lmao.
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A rubric is basically a compilation of either:
~How a paper is graded based on a points system.
~What needs to be included in a paper.
Aww, I love you too Rose. :)
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And Rose, yup, just ask. :) I don't remember if I read the last chapter you wrote, but... everything that was up on Ethereality, I read. :)
OMG as soon as I read this I had to go sign in over there. I couldn't remember how long it had been since I had been on that site (January :o ). I was only up to chpt 4 over there, but I have up to chpt 6 posted on AC. I'm going to try and get chpt 7 posted this week, but I'm worried it won't make sense because I'm trying to logically skip ahead a few months.
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Whats the site?
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Whats the site?
Ethereality. Its a forum we use to talk on all the time last summer. Check it out here -->http://s10.invisionfree.com/ethereality/index.php?s=b1454e8396814f2597d74c90a3a0527a&act=idx <--
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No!!! I have to catch up. *sniff*
It's not really active anymore though.... Ethereality, I mean.. Given that the admin decided not to write fanfic anymore.
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Aww, I like Ethereality when people actually talked on it. But now we have this board, which is even better (at least it's more active!)
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It is a lot more active. :)
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No!!! I have to catch up. *sniff*
It's not really active anymore though.... Ethereality, I mean.. Given that the admin decided not to write fanfic anymore.
Ya Ethereality is pretty much dea *sniff* It was fun back in the day, but I agree I think this board is run better. (No disrespect to Laura at all) But like how Ethereality was run is you would post the link to your fiction in order to get feedback. And what wound up happening was me, Laura, and maybe one or two other people were the only ones reviewing, yet very little people were reviewing our stories. It got to the point that we were neglecting or own stories just to read others.
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I miss Ethereality, but I'm like you guys. This board is a lot more active. I'm probably one of those people Mel was talking about. I was reading their stories, but I'm horrible about leaving feedback. I've got to get better about that. I guess my thing is if it is really good I have a hard time trying to figure what to write other than "great story". I really do miss the convos over there too. You girls were the ones that convinced me to write My Immortal, and even though I'm slow on updating I love writing it. So, thanks.
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It helped not having the internet at home. :D At home, I wrote my own stories. At the library, I read. :)
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I was reading their stories, but I'm horrible about leaving feedback. I've got to get better about that. I guess my thing is if it is really good I have a hard time trying to figure what to write other than "great story".
I'm one of the people who thinks "great story" is better than nothing - at least I know you're reading and enjoying it. But if you wanna say more than that (which is nice, trust me!!), try and think about what specifically you liked about it. Was it the storyline? The characters? The suspense? Or if you're just reviewing a chapter, what was your favorite part of the chapter and why? What moments stood out? What do you want to see happen next? All of that kind of stuff is very helpful to hear from the writer's standpoint. :)
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I agree. *nod*
It's also good to point out if anything confused you.
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Those were some great suggestions that Julie had for what to write in a review other than "Great job!" So many readers tell me that they'd love to say something more, but they just aren't sure how to go about it. Telling why you liked something or recountin your favorite part is definitely a step in the right direction and trust me the writers will definitely appreciate it!
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Sometimes I reply with my reaction to what happened. I talk to the characters and such just as if I were yelling at the movie screen. You know like, "OMG No no no! Nicky you can't do that!!!!! She's gonna be so pissed!" Some reviewers do that to my stories too. It's not necessarily the most constructive review, but it helps the reader see your enthusiasm for the story and that feels good too. (Or maybe just have a good laugh. Haha. I'm sure many have had a good laugh at my expense.)
or, in case you're not as silly as me and don't groan out loud at the TV every time Lana accuses Clark of keeping secrets, or yell when Clark walks into a room where he should just know there a bunch of Kryptonite. (I love my Superman and all, but he's not always the sharpest tool in the shed if you know what I mean.) another thing people do is say what they thing is going to happen next. I love it when people leave their theories of the story. It's very interesting to see where everyone thinks you're headed with the plot. I got some interesting theories when people were trying to figure out who Cindy's prince charming was going to be.
but I agree with Julie. "Great job!", "loved the chapter" and can't wait for an update" are still better than nothing. The least they know you're reading that way.
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^ When I review I like to review as I read so this way I say things that are still fresh in my mind. I also enjoy when people quote something they liked in the story and explain why or same with quoting something they didn't understand. It helps me as a writer know what people like and dislike.
I do appreciate al the good jobs as well though. :)
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I like getting the reactions too, Kelly - it makes me smile. When I review, depending on the story, sometimes I review as I go (usually if it's a long chapter, so I don't forget anything) and put in my reactions or parts I really liked, like Mare said. Othertimes I just review after I finish reading the whole thing and just give a summary of what I liked. And sometimes it really is hard to find something specific to say, even if I did like the chapter, but I figure anything is better than nothing.
Also, for anyone who gets shy about giving feedback, just know that no matter what you say or how you say it, as long as it's something positive, the author will appreciate hearing it. There are no stupid questions, and there are no stupid reviews (except for flames LOL). If the author doesn't appreciate it, then they're not worth your time, but most of us do. ;)
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^ yes and to add to that, if you do feel the need to point out a flaw of some kind, make sure you say something nice first. Like wow I loveed the dialogue in the middle but there was one part towards the end that didn't seem very believeable to me...then point it out. If criticism is said nicely no one minds I don't think, but yeah...eh that sucked monkey butts is not a good way to get across how you feel lol
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^ yes and to add to that, if you do feel the need to point out a flaw of some kind, make sure you say something nice first. Like wow I loveed the dialogue in the middle but there was one part towards the end that didn't seem very believeable to me...then point it out. If criticism is said nicely no one minds I don't think, but yeah...eh that sucked monkey butts is not a good way to get across how you feel lol
Exactly! I said positive because I know that some people do get offended by criticism, even the constructive kind, but most writers that have been writing long enough have reached the point where they value constructive criticism if it's put nicely. But definitely... if you're going to say something negative, even if you don't think it's anything major, always include something positive too. Let the positive outweigh the negative. If you can't think of enough positive to balance the negative, then maybe that story isn't for you.
Oh, and also be detailed about the negative - if you say you don't like the chapter, you better say what you didn't like about it, or the author's going to wonder way more than they'll wonder what you liked if you just say "great chapter!" and don't elaborate. It's unfortunate, but you always remember the negative more than the positive LOL.
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^ yes and to add to that, if you do feel the need to point out a flaw of some kind, make sure you say something nice first. Like wow I loveed the dialogue in the middle but there was one part towards the end that didn't seem very believeable to me...then point it out. If criticism is said nicely no one minds I don't think, but yeah...eh that sucked monkey butts is not a good way to get across how you feel lol
LMAO Um, ok, I'm at work and I totally just laughed really loud and people are looking at me. ;D Thanks for all the tips on reviewing. I think part of my problem is that I'm still somewhat new to this writing and reviewing thing. I've decided to go back and read some stories over and leave some feedback since I already have a sense of what I liked and didn't like. Maybe that will make it easier. Thanks again!
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Amen to the "anything is better than nothing." I get nothing and always feel like I'm pretty sub-par...
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I just found this thread and I thought your idea is great Julie! I’m not sure how I can contribute because I don’t think I’d qualify to really give anything constructive as a reader (have you seen my grammar? lol) and I don’t know how the rubric thing works, but if this is already in motion, let me know, I’ll support it in any way I can. I’m assuming this will be on your board? (I have to see if I’m already a member or not, I keep registering at different places and then totally forgot about them, lol).
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Thanks, Mers! If we don't hear from Chaos, it's going to be hosted on my domain, but you won't need to be part of the forum or anything.
Those of us who are interested in developing the rubric can get that put together and post it here, and then anyone who is interested in being a reviewer can say so. Mare and I were talking, and I think we're gonna do what I suggested about having everyone who wants to review do a trial one on the same willing guinea pig story - we already thought of a good story, something everyone could like - and see how it goes.
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now ya got me all curious, what story are you gonna do???
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Now I'm worried.... It's not too teribly long, is it? Finals are next week...
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We have to make the rubric first, so don't worry about reviewing yet.
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Should we all have a chat to do that?
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I was thinking that... might be the easiest way to get it done quickly, rather than trying to do it in a thread. We could just set a time, and anyone who is able to come will have input on the rubric.
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Sounds good to me. :) Let me know.
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I was thinking that... might be the easiest way to get it done quickly, rather than trying to do it in a thread. We could just set a time, and anyone who is able to come will have input on the rubric.
Err what about time differences??
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^ for that reason, I think the weekend would probably be the best time to do it.
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^ for that reason, I think the weekend would probably be the best time to do it.
Still.. my time difference is about 8 or 9 hours.. :( I don't think I can make it. Saturday = work day.. Sunday = pack things for vacation day lol.
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;D lol well it's about 12 hours for me but that the east coast of the US (if I'm right that means LA etc) but then again I'm not sure i'd be much help to y'all
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I believe that it is a 12 hour difference from Australia to the East Coast of the US, but the East Coast would be like NY. LA (which is Pacific time) I think might actually be less for you.
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Weekend would be good... I know the time zone difference is an issue, but it's probably gonna be impossible to get EVERYONE in a chat at the same time anyway, so someone just needs to pick a time and we'll go with it. The rubric can always be modified after the fact if other people have suggestions - we just need to get a draft of it put together. :)
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Alrighty! ;D
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Well, let's see... I'm Mountain, Julie's Central, Mare and Mel are Eastern...
I don't know either. I'm usually around on the weekends, so... Just kind of pick a time and I'll try my very best to be there, which really shouldn't be too hard.
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Which would be better... afternoon, evening, or night, and Saturday or Sunday? Throw some answers out there.
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Saturday. Since I have school on Monday and a dentist appointment, anytime Saturday is better, I think.
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Hrmm Saturday night might work best for me, but if you do it without me it's okay lol because i'm still not sure it's something I can completely commit too just yet. I would love to help with the rubric but I can always suggest things after the fact. But yes, this weekend Saturday night would be the best time for me. Saturday afternoon i'll be busy and not sure what's going on Sunday.
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Sunday would actually be better for me because I have work on Sat from 1:30-10. Sunday I'm pretty much open all day
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Sorry I haven't answered in a gazillion years. I'm only slowly getting back into things again. (I've been having a lot of trouble with my short term memory since getting hit in the head a few months back). I'm finally getting back on my feet, though, and learning to think in new ways. Yay me.
Anyhoo, I have not caught up on any of these message boards so you may have already come up with a solution, but I'd be more than happy to link up the review site. If you need a place to host it, I'd be happy to put it on one of my servers. (Or if you've already found solutions to this and I just haven't read it yet, that's cool too...;) )
--Ash
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Chaos lives, hooray!
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Okay, just because it's already Saturday night and I haven't heard from too many people, let's hold off on the chat by now. By the time we find out what messenger programs people have, it'll already be Sunday night LOL.
But, in scouring through my site, I did find an archived version of the review I got for Broken. I'll post the areas and point values it covered, cause I think it did a good job at covering most areas.
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Aww hello i'm here, just got here a few minutesd ago.
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okay the anal organizational queen in me is going t make a suggestion because at this point a lot of people say they want to help but I think we need to know who is for real and who is wishy washy about it because I would hate to have to wait for people who really aren't all that into it so why don't we do this. I'm going to make another thread and sticky it for the weekend and in it you should post ONLY if you want to make a commitment to this review site.
I'll ask you to be specific lol
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Example rubric, borrowed from "Changes Reviews"...
(The blurbs below each category, I'm just making up myself, based on things the reviewer wrote about my story.)
Title:
Author:
Reviewer:
Design
__ / 5 points
Overall presentation of story on a website - is it easy to read? Are the font/background styles and colors tasteful or distracting and hard to read? If there are graphics, do they add to the story, or are they too big or unappealing for whatever reason? Is the story easy to navigate?
Intro
__ / 5 points
Does the summary make the story sound appealing? Does it pique your curiosity? How about the first sentence? Do you want to keep reading after the initial sentence or paragraph? Is the intro bogged down by character lists, unnecessary descriptions of characters, or the like?
Title
__ / 5 points
Is the title interesting? Is it original? Does it fit with the story (after reading it)?
First impression
__ / 10 points
After checking out the story and reading the first chapter, what is your first impression? Is it something you want to keep reading, or one you're already groaning about having to review? What elements of the story gave you this impression?
Characters
__ / 15 points
The main characters... are they believable? Do they express emotion realistically? Are they multi-dimensional and not just full of cliches and stereotypes? Do they have flaws and quirks? How about the supporting characters? They may not be the main focus, but they're still important. Are they believable too? How about villains? Do they have motives? Emotions?
Plot
__ / 15
Is the storyline original? Or does it take an unoriginal idea in a new direction? Does it have enough action/drive to keep moving, or does it fall flat in the middle? IS there an actual storyline, with building action, conflict, and resolution, or does it just seem like a random sequence of events?
Development
__ / 15
Goes along with the development of the plot. Is the story too short to properly develop the plot, or is it too wordy and drawn out? Are all conflicts developed and then resolved in a way that is appropriate to the story? Does the story "flow"?
Emotion
__ / 5
Does the story invoke the right kind of emotion in the reader? Do you laugh when it's supposed to be funny, cry (or at least feel sad) when it's supposed to be sad, gasp when it's supposed to be shocking, etc? Is it written in a way that can get an emotional reaction out of a reader?
Grammar/Spelling
__ / 10
Self-explanatory.
Originality
__ / 5
How original is the story? Even if the basic idea is not original, does it add originality by taking the idea in a new direction, adding twists? Do the characters lend originality to the story, or are they just as cliched as the plot?
The After Effect
__ / 5
Is this a story that stays in your head after reading, beyond just thinking about it for the sake of reviewing? Is it thought-provoking? Does it have moments you think about days later? Or is it just simply forgettable?
Code
__ /5
There was a code for the site you had to put on the story's page to get the points here.
Overall
__ / 100 (the points add up to this)
Overall comments here.
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okay the anal organizational queen in me is going t make a suggestion because at this point a lot of people say they want to help but I think we need to know who is for real and who is wishy washy about it because I would hate to have to wait for people who really aren't all that into it so why don't we do this. I'm going to make another thread and sticky it for the weekend and in it you should post ONLY if you want to make a commitment to this review site.
I'll ask you to be specific lol
Sounds good!
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About the example rubric I posted... I think it's pretty good; it covers a lot of ground. Some of the categories seem to overlap a bit, so that's sometihng we might want to talk about and clarify further. Also, we might want to add other things, so let's hear some suggestions if you have them.
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Anyhoo, I have not caught up on any of these message boards so you may have already come up with a solution, but I'd be more than happy to link up the review site. If you need a place to host it, I'd be happy to put it on one of my servers. (Or if you've already found solutions to this and I just haven't read it yet, that's cool too...;) )
Good to see you back, Ash! I had offered to host the review site on my domain if we didn't hear back from you, which I still have no problem doing, but if you wanna put it on one of yours to associate it more with AC, that'd be great!
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About the example rubric I posted... I think it's pretty good; it covers a lot of ground. Some of the categories seem to overlap a bit, so that's sometihng we might want to talk about and clarify further. Also, we might want to add other things, so let's hear some suggestions if you have them.
Yup, and the design thing would probably go away since we are talking about the AC forum and everyone as the same design I have an area for suggestions in the thread I just made lol
That rubric is a pretty good example
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^ ooh I thought it was just AC stories lol my bad.
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^ I think that was the original idea. I guess that's something we should decide - is it going to be just for AC stories, or can anyone submit?
And I was thinking about that too - if it is just AC, the design thing would need to be modified. I think something like graphics could still be taken into account somewhere though... like, if you didn't have a graphic at all, it wouldn't hurt you, but if you do have one that is completely distracting and unappealing, that could lose points, whereas a really nice one that attracts your attention and fits the story could get you points.
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^ true although by including graphics were also condoning banners lmao *kicks banners*
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^ true although by including graphics were also condoning banners lmao *kicks banners*
Only small banners. You would automatically get a 0 if your banner was bigger than the requirements and just hadn't been caught yet... hahaha. ;)
I like banners as long as they're not obnoxiously ginormous. It's like having a cover by which to judge the book. :D
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Well, I think if you were including banners it should follows these requirements:
~if it fits the requirements, banner can be on preview page (larger banners must be on subsequent chapter or points will not be given in full)
~banner serves as an addition to the story
~etc, etc. (some of the things Julie mentioned before)
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^ Yeah, that makes sense.
And it really doesn't have to be a part of anything. It works more as part of the presentation thing on a site the author put up themselves - but since everyone's story pretty much looks the same on AC, I'm not sure it's important enough.
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Ooh, or maybe it could be involved with the summary. If they have a bannner posted with the summary, it could either earn or lose them an extra point or something.
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Or in the first chapter, supposing they'd wanted to keep their big graphic.
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okay my two cents on banners. I really am of the belief that if you feel like you need a banner on your story it's lacking in some way. I know there are just plain artistic people who love to make them like you Dee, you are an art person, it makes sense to have a banner but I just think judging a banner is silly, unless it's a picture book type fanfic. I know i'm probably alone on that thinking lol and i'll go with whatever you guys choose but banners have always been the one thing I thought was silly to represent a fic. Sorry to all the banner lovers out there, I know I have just made some enemies lol
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LOL no, I agree with you, Mare. I think a banner is more part of the overall presentation of the story, nothing more. It serves a similar purpose to a summary - something to attract you to the story. I equate it to the cover of a book. When I'm browsing in a bookstore, an interesting cover is what makes me pick up a book... but then I automatically flip it over and read the back, cause the summary is what will really determine whether or not I think it sounds interesting. The picture is just something to catch my eye in the first place. I see the point of having them, but I definitely don't think the story as a whole should be judged on the basis of a banner. Like I said, if we were doing something with overall presentation, that's where I could see a banner factoring in.
Personally, I make them because I enjoy making graphics, and I'm a visual person, so it inspires me to have a visual to go with my stories sometimes.
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^ I use them too on my own site but more so people wil have something to click on to get into the story. lol I know it did work for Facelss for me. That graphic of the newspaper article is what drew me in and made me feature it on my site.
and we know how that went for me lol
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I dunno... I like banners actually. They kind of give me a little insight to the story and in the case of romances or fics that are not centered around the guys only it gives me an idea of what the other characters might look like. And they look pretty lol. I'm a visual person though...
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I know there are just plain artistic people who love to make them like you Dee, you are an art person, it makes sense to have a banner
To be fair, I've actually never made my banners... Since Photoshop and the like are my enenmies, but I am starting to understand GIMP... though it's more a graphics coloring program than a photo manipulation prgram... But I did envision my banners myself... So I guess the original idea is mine, but te finished product is always someone else's... *feels bad*
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my thoughts are, that people are submitting their stories for critique. They want feedback on the story and the writing itself. Banners have absolutely nothing to do with how good a story is or how well it's written. I personally wouldn't judge or critique a banner at all no matter what because it's an entirely different area of expertise. I would have no idea what makes one good or bad. To me it's like a writer judging a painting or a painter judging a story... they just don't mix. I think we should just let the banners be and focus on the writing. Just warn the people if they are too big or something, but don't add or subtract points for it. Just my thoughts... but then, I've never used a banner on any of my stories so...
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^ I use them too on my own site but more so people wil have something to click on to get into the story. lol I know it did work for Facelss for me. That graphic of the newspaper article is what drew me in and made me feature it on my site.
and we know how that went for me lol
I was totally thinking of Faceless. ;) That story, when it actually worked on Jaydee's site, had AWESOME presentation LOL - cool graphics, plus that newspaper thing.
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To me it's like a writer judging a painting or a painter judging a story... they just don't mix.
Well, guess I better give up both of my hobbies then... ;)
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haha that's not what I meant :P Maybe you're one of those lucky people that is good at both. I am definitely not. My creativity stops at storytelling. I would have no idea what makes a good banner and what doesn't. That's all I meant.
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To be fair, I've actually never made my banners... Since Photoshop and the like are my enenmies, but I am starting to understand GIMP... though it's more a graphics coloring program than a photo manipulation prgram... But I did envision my banners myself... So I guess the original idea is mine, but te finished product is always someone else's... *feels bad*
Aww don't feel bad about that. Nine out of ten times it's mersey that makes my banners for me because I have the artistic mind of a five year old lol
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my thoughts are, that people are submitting their stories for critique. They want feedback on the story and the writing itself. Banners have absolutely nothing to do with how good a story is or how well it's written. I personally wouldn't judge or critique a banner at all no matter what because it's an entirely different area of expertise. I would have no idea what makes one good or bad. To me it's like a writer judging a painting or a painter judging a story... they just don't mix. I think we should just let the banners be and focus on the writing. Just warn the people if they are too big or something, but don't add or subtract points for it. Just my thoughts... but then, I've never used a banner on any of my stories so...
Wow i'm so glad I read ahead before posting because I was going to say the EXACT same thing lol I think that's what my problem is for caring about a design of a story because in the end it can be the prettiest site in the world or the prettiest banner in the world but if a story stinks it stinks lol or the person could be a horrible graphic maker but yet when you click on the story it can be the most amazing thing ever. You never know lol
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Kelly (and Mare), I agree - I didn't really mean actually judging how pretty the banner was, cause that's really subjective and totally not fair - some people have expensive graphics programs that can make the good ones, and others don't.
The banner thing really just came from that example review rubric I posted. When I was looking at the one I had gotten for Broken, the reviewer posted a ton of comments about my banner and how she thought it didn't fit with the story LOL. It wasn't about whether the banner looked nice or not; it was just, does this banner relate to the story?
But then, should a story really lose points in its review because the reviewer can't see the connection between the story and its banner? No LOL. So yeah, I change my mind - if it's just going to be stories on AC, we might as well throw out the whole presentation category, banners and all.
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Aw, but you aren't curious as to how different the stories look depending on what AC skin you use? :D
And Kelly, I can't make a banner at all, unless I sit down and draw it. :D And then it's gigantic, so....
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I dunno... I like banners actually. They kind of give me a little insight to the story and in the case of romances or fics that are not centered around the guys only it gives me an idea of what the other characters might look like. And they look pretty lol. I'm a visual person though...
I agree. I like to know what the author intended the character to look like. Granted, if they are a good storyteller with excellent descriptive skills then you should be able to decifer what they look like, but pics always help. Plus I'm a pic/banner junkie. LOL
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I don't like giving points for banners... I think they are a nice bonus but not something to be included on a review rubric.