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Author Topic: So I know I was banned...  (Read 664 times)
starbeamz
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« on: August 11, 2011, 10:02:49 AM »

Hello lovely mods (and everyone else, of course!),

First, I want to apologize for breaking the rules and posting more than two updates yesterday, although one of them was a re-post of something that had been deleted (but that's just silly semantics and not the point).  Considering I haven't been writing fanfic or been on AC in ages until a week or so ago, it was rather stunning to realize that I broke a rule my first time back. Mare, that PM has got me feeling shell-shocked still...and then, wow, I came onto this site and saw the new (well, new to me!) District Court thread and my name listed like a criminal, and I kind of want to puke.  I understand why the thread is there, and I'm not criticizing it at all...just saying that I'm feeling a little nauseous (I never break rules, so this is new for me and not a good feeling at all!)

I guess I just thought that the rules wouldn't have changed since the last time I was active on AC. I mean, I skimmed over them but they all looked the same to me (you know, no giant banners, proper grammar, etc), so I suppose I must have missed the whole no more than two updates a day part.  I also didn't realize that the site had a zero tolerance/one strike and you're out policy these days.  My fault for not closely reading all of the Site News Sad

I know we're all here because fanfic is fun (and I'm so excited to be writing again--minus this little damper lol), but the one strike and you're done deal kind of detracts from that fun.  I don't know if this has been suggested at all, but maybe there should be a warning system. You know, one of the mods sends the offender a warning PM asking them to correct their grievous error within a certain amount of time or else...and then the locked account would result if they didn't fix their rule-breaking.

I'm not asking for my account back and the ban lifted; I did the crime, I'll do the time. I just think maybe, for the future, we could instate a warning policy before you're locked out.

Mare and Julilly, you guys rock as mods, and you know I love you both and I'm not posting this as an angry WTF YOU BANNED ME WHYYYYYY post AT ALL! I'm just offering a suggestion for the future so that other people don't feel as shitty as I do right now. lol

Love,
Sarah
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Sarah

mare
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« Reply #1 on: August 11, 2011, 10:15:55 AM »

Sarah,

If you go on the site and the forum, you will see many many posts about warnings and how we are done giving them. We gave people a lot of warnings about this(ironically lol). We even had avys which gave the date that the warnings would stop. I know there are a lot of you that have come back after a long time but just like I had to say over and over again last week, that doesn't mean that the rules can ease up or we'd reconsider doing things the way they used to be done. We changed things for a reason and since we did the site and forum have run a lot smoother. The quality of stories have gone way up and overall up until all these red robins, barely anyone had broken the rules.

Before anyone posts a chapter or a new story, the rules of the site pop up. It's all of your responsibilite s to read those rules. Whether it's your very first time posting or your ten thousandth time. I know it sucks, I would feel embarassed and annoyed too, but we are done giving warnings.

We love you too! lol

These locks (sounds better than bans) aren't personal and of course you know that because you're one of my favorite people. This will happen to anyone who doesn't follow the rules. You end up in the Dictrict Court and depending on the crime, you will al serve your time. No one can make you a cake with a file in it either!

So, that's our stance on it. At the end of the day we aren't changing anything about this system. It works.





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Writing is something you do alone. Its a profession for introverts who want to tell you a story but don't want to make eye contact while doing it. ~ John Green

julilly
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« Reply #2 on: August 11, 2011, 10:48:14 AM »

I'd like to add some additional information to what Mare was saying. It was last summer that we started having significant issues with people breaking rules. In the fall we changed the rules and gave people a couple of months to adjust to the changes. During that time people continued to break the rules. We gave warning after warning and were completely ignored to the point that we got emails in response to our nice little warnings telling us off CONSTANTLY.

We got kind of tired of being told what terrible people we are, and as a result felt we needed to get stricter. Since then issues have been incredibly rare, until this past week. We are constantly telling people to make sure they freshen up on the rules. It's the first thing posted when you open up the main page of the site, it's there before you post, and if you were looking at the site news you would see TWO posts reminding people to read the rules. It's not as if we haven't tried.

It sucks, but honestly the people who are now upset about them were the ones encouraging us to go this route a year ago. I guess it's only okay when it doesn't affect you. (not you, you, I know you weren't here)

If it's any consolation, if I were to break a rule Mare would lock my account in a heartbeat. No one is exempt! <3

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~Maple Jellybean~

What's the difference between ignorance and apathy? ... I don't know, and I don't care.

mare
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« Reply #3 on: August 11, 2011, 10:53:07 AM »

Yes I would and in fact I would even lock MYSELF if I broke a rule. LOL
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Writing is something you do alone. Its a profession for introverts who want to tell you a story but don't want to make eye contact while doing it. ~ John Green

RokofAges75
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« Reply #4 on: August 11, 2011, 10:58:36 AM »

I know that this is not a democracy, and I'm not a mod, so my opinion probably doesn't matter, but as someone who has been posting both on the site and forum regularly for about five years and has been friends with you both for even longer, I'm going to share it anyway.

I'm a teacher, in back-to-school mode, so that's the lens through which I'm looking at this whole issue with the rules.  It's important to have rules on a site/forum with this many different people posting, just like it's important to have a rules in a classroom.

In my classroom, the kids and I make up the rules together on the first day of school.  We brainstorm and come up with maybe three basic rules that cover everything and that everyone can agree on, and we write them on a poster that we all sign, and it goes on a the wall as a reminder of the rules.  We go over those rules whenever it seems the kids need a reminder.

When the AC rules changed back in November, they changed based on problems that were happening on the site (spamming the Most Recent page, lots of unedited fics, and so on), complaints from readers who just wanted to read a variety of well-written stories, and certain users who were finding ways to get around the old rules (creating alter egos to be able to post more and review their own stories, etc.)  Like Mare said, we were given plenty of warning before the new rules went into effect, both on the site and the forum, so at that point, no one posting on either of those places should have missed the new rules.

It's been nine months since then, though, and we've gained a lot of new users or old users who have come back from long hiatuses, not realizing the rules had changed.  In my classroom, when I get a new student, I make a point to go over the classroom rules with them.  On a site, you can't exactly do that; it would be ridiculous to expect Mare and Julilly to contact each new member to make sure they understand the rules.  It's the members' job to actually READ the rules before they post.  That's why the rules are there on the site, and they're now updated to be consistent with the rules posted here, so that issue has been resolved.

Still, seeing as how we've had this issue twice in two weeks now, with older members who have come back and accidentally broken the rules, it's clear to me that people aren't reading the rules carefully enough before they post.  Is that the mods' fault?  No.  Is it the users' fault?  Yes.  Should they be publicly  called out for it and banned for a week without warning the FIRST time it happens?  I don't think so.

Going back to the classroom, I would never write a student's name on the board and take a week's worth of recess away for one small misbehavior.  The first time they forget to raise their hand or clean up the floor under their desk or hand in their homework, they get a warning.  "Next time raise your hand."  "Please pick up your papers."  "Turn it in tomorrow."  The second time it happens, then there's a consequence.  I believe in zero tolerance for some things, but only very serious things - weapons, violence, bad language, bullying.  I teach children, and children make mistakes.  Adults make mistakes, too.  I think it would be great if everyone had a safe environment in which to make mistakes and learn from them without being humiliated.

My point is, I think a one warning system would be a fair revision to the rules of this site.  It would prevent people like Sarah and Karin, who made an honest mistake, from being made to feel bad because of it, and I doubt they'd make the same mistake twice.  It would reserve the serious bans and appearances in AC District Court for the people who really deserve them, the ones who flaunt the rules and break them more than once.  I think THOSE are the people the rules had to be changed for, and those are the people who should be punished for breaking them.

This is just my opinion; like I said, I know I have no real say in the manner, and if you're not open to change, you're not open to change.  It's just a suggestion that might make things a little more comfortable and fun for people again.
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~Julie

julilly
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« Reply #5 on: August 11, 2011, 11:10:13 AM »

The people on this site are not eight year olds. I would hope they don't expect us to treat them like eight year olds.

Again, you had no issues with these rules when you were encouraging us to follow through on them. Now that they affect you though you have an issue with them. Who are these people who really deserve to be held to the rules? People who aren't working on a project with you?

We are open to change, and everything is considered but you honestly can't expect us to be like "Oh no, this person who we like broke a rule, we better change them NOW!" because that's not fair to all of the people who came before them. If anything changes it will take time, but a one warning system definitely is a consideration for the future.

We were well aware how you felt about this as a teacher, and how you felt about Mare's abilities as a teacher, and I just don't think that we should treat this site like elementary school. I don't get why this week she's being, quote, "over the top", but two months ago it was fair.
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~Maple Jellybean~

What's the difference between ignorance and apathy? ... I don't know, and I don't care.

starbeamz
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« Reply #6 on: August 11, 2011, 11:18:35 AM »

WHOA. Ok, wait!

I didn't mean for this thread to turn into an angry discussion post! I was just apologizing and then putting a suggestion out there that clearly is not going to be used, and that's fine. I understand that your jobs as mods are not easy, and, hey, why would I want to make your life harder, right? You're my friends Smiley If the current system is better for you, I'm not going to argue, since I have no idea what's been going on.

I wasn't here when all the rules were being changed, and, like I said, it was completely my fault for not reading the rules carefully again and getting banned. That said, I feel like this thread is devolving into a fight between 8 year olds LOL

Julilly, I don't think Julie was criticizing Mare's teaching skills nor was she saying that hers are phenomenal. She was just using her classroom routine as an example of how she'd like the site to run when it comes to rules and breaking them.  I also don't think she was saying that things were "over the top" with the bans, etc. At least, that's not what I understood when I read that.

I think we're all just going to have to agree to disagree.

Julie, thanks for that giant post lol and explaining how you'd like to see the site run in order for it to be more fun for people.

Julilly and Mare: I know you two know what you're doing when you make the rules and you're trying to be as fair as possible, and I love you for it. Please don't be angry and think we're all out to crucify you! We're not! In fact, we'd rather hug you than kill you lol (These days, the killing seems to be reserved for a certain Mr. Carter lol)

*cue Kumbaya*
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Sarah

julilly
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« Reply #7 on: August 11, 2011, 11:21:40 AM »


Julilly, I don't think Julie was criticizing Mare's teaching skills nor was she saying that hers are phenomenal. She was just using her classroom routine as an example of how she'd like the site to run when it comes to rules and breaking them.  I also don't think she was saying that things were "over the top" with the bans, etc. At least, that's not what I understood when I read that.

I understand what Julie was saying, and actually I was referring to a DM that got forwarded to us last week, not this post Smiley

Also, I don't think anyone is angry so don't fret.

And yes, like I said, change is always considered, but it can't be done at the drop of a dime or else it looks like favouritism to everyone else. We've also been through that before!
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~Maple Jellybean~

What's the difference between ignorance and apathy? ... I don't know, and I don't care.

starbeamz
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« Reply #8 on: August 11, 2011, 11:26:02 AM »

Oh, okay good. I didn't want anyone to get angry! Me no likey when friends are mad at friends Sad
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Sarah

RokofAges75
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« Reply #9 on: August 11, 2011, 11:26:26 AM »

The people on this site are not eight year olds. I would hope they don't expect us to treat them like eight year olds.

Again, you had no issues with these rules when you were encouraging us to follow through on them. Now that they affect you though you have an issue with them. Who are these people who really deserve to be held to the rules? People who aren't working on a project with you?

We are open to change, and everything is considered but you honestly can't expect us to be like "Oh no, this person who we like broke a rule, we better change them NOW!" because that's not fair to all of the people who came before them. If anything changes it will take time, but a one warning system definitely is a consideration for the future.

We were well aware how you felt about this as a teacher, and how you felt about Mare's abilities as a teacher, and I just don't think that we should treat this site like elementary school. I don't get why this week she's being, quote, "over the top", but two months ago it was fair.

I fully support the rules.  I always have.  My problem is only with the consequences - specifically, the lack of a single warning.  I will admit, it was funny to see people who were blatantly spamming up the site with various alter egos and no regard for the rules be outed on the AC District Court thread.  I don't get the same amusement out of seeing people who I know had no idea they were breaking a rule be called out there.

It has nothing to do with people I'm working with; I'm working with half the forum if you take Rose's round robins into account LOL.  If those same people continue to spam up the board by updating a round robin and two other stories on the same day, by all means, call them out and lock their accounts!

It also has nothing to do with Mare's abilities as a teacher, which I said nothing about and honestly don't know anything about, having never seen Mare in the classroom.

I don't feel any differently about the rules; I am just rethinking my own opinion on the consequences and wondered if you might reconsider, too.  I don't expect you to change them right this minute because of my opinion, but I just thought I'd throw it out there to see if there might be a possibility of adding warnings back in the future.  ONE warning, per person, not multiple warnings.  I think that's totally reasonable, but if you disagree, we can agree to disagree.  It's just a thought.
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~Julie

mare
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« Reply #10 on: August 11, 2011, 11:27:22 AM »

I still love everyone and didn't take offense to anything. I'm pretty sure my poop still smells like roses and rainbows shoot out of my butt, I just checked! LOL Smiley
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Writing is something you do alone. Its a profession for introverts who want to tell you a story but don't want to make eye contact while doing it. ~ John Green

starbeamz
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« Reply #11 on: August 11, 2011, 11:30:54 AM »

LMAO You have a magical butt, Mare Stick out tongue
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Sarah

julilly
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« Reply #12 on: August 11, 2011, 11:32:53 AM »

I will admit, it was funny to see people who were blatantly spamming up the site with various alter egos and no regard for the rules be outed on the AC District Court thread.  I don't get the same amusement out of seeing people who I know had no idea they were breaking a rule be called out there.

You know the people who you were laughing at said they weren't aware of the rules, too. That's what everyone says. It's easy to go on a site and overlook their rules. Just like when that little box with the legal agreement pops up on a piece of software and most people scroll right through it. It happens, we can't fault anyone for glossing over them, all we can do is hold everyone to the same standard.

And as I said in my last post everything is considered, I never said I disagreed with you, it just isn't going to happen overnight. Looking back over the past few years, October is generally rule review time.
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~Maple Jellybean~

What's the difference between ignorance and apathy? ... I don't know, and I don't care.

mare
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« Reply #13 on: August 11, 2011, 11:33:19 AM »

^ why yes I do lol
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Writing is something you do alone. Its a profession for introverts who want to tell you a story but don't want to make eye contact while doing it. ~ John Green

RokofAges75
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« Reply #14 on: August 11, 2011, 11:34:26 AM »

I understand what Julie was saying, and actually I was referring to a DM that got forwarded to us last week, not this post Smiley

Also, I don't think anyone is angry so don't fret.

And yes, like I said, change is always considered, but it can't be done at the drop of a dime or else it looks like favouritism to everyone else. We've also been through that before!

I agree with this too, and like I said, I wasn't expecting you to change things right this minute, and neither was Sarah.  I support the spamming rule, and whether she knew she was doing it or not, she did break it.  I still love you, Sarah, but I agree, it would be showing favoritism to not ban Sarah when you banned Karin for the same thing last week.

I'm glad to hear you're at least open reconsidering making some changes in the future.  You guys are both fair, reasonable mods, and that's one of the things that makes this site and forum, especially, a great place to post.  I just hope we can keep it that way! Smiley
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~Julie

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