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[RokofAges75]

Interesting topic! A lot of fan artists do it, I think more so than fan fiction, but I also question the legality of that. What's that other one? "Buy me a kofi?" I've never actually become a patron for anyone, so I'm only vaguely aware of how it works.

Sponsorship ads also annoy me, but I recognize the draw for it if you're doing something time consuming, but fulfilling and popular, yet still need to pay your bills.

I'm on the fence when it comes to fandom specifically, less so for some YouTube content creators that aren't really fandom based. I'm thinking of the Overly Sarcastic Productions channel that I really enjoy where they do retellings of history and mythology (which I wouldn't call fanfic), but then again, I stumbled on the TV Trope fanfic recommendation page for "Classical Mythology" and someone listed the Percy Jackson series on that page and the Illiad, so... lol.

It's less the legality of it for me and more that part of the joy in being part of a fandom is sharing it together and it's all well and good when it's reviews and certain types of stories or certain well-known authors getting more reviews, but then it just seems like an uneven playing field if people monetize, because can you break through that ceiling without actually monetizing yourself? Is it worth it? Would people only start associating in dollar-related circles? Would it dissuade readers who always got it for free? Who knows! (I've actually thought about this and would honestly lean toward just sending OF PBox to anyone around here who wanted to read it if it ever actually got published... but future pipe dreams). But then there's also the argument that if you can make money (without getting sued) and people want to pay you money to write fanfic, then why shouldn't you?

I don't think it would be worth it for me personally, but I say to each their own.

I agree with everything you said.

In general, I have mixed feelings about monetizing something you're doing for fun - as a hobby, not a career.  On one hand, I get the point that artists should be paid for their work, whether we're talking about music or visual art.  Copyright issues aside, creative writing is also a form of art.  All of it takes considerable time and effort.  And when you start buying special equipment or paying for a domain and web hosting to improve the quality of what you're putting out there, it costs you money too.  I get that, but I have never become a patron for anyone either.  When podcasts become too annoying with all their ads, I start listening to a different podcast.

All that said, it just feels tacky to start asking for money for something that has always been free.  Part of the fun of fanfic (and YouTube and podcasts and whatever) is that it's free entertainment.  There's a give and take relationship there - sure, I post my stories for free, but there are also plenty of other people in my fandom posting stories that I can read for free, so it goes both ways.  Like you said, if some people start monetizing, it leads to an uneven playing field.  But it may actually hurt the writers who ask for money more because why on earth would you pay for something when you can have it for free?  I would just read something else.  Maybe in a more popular fandom, people would pay to read fanfics, but I don't see anyone doing that in our fandom.  I'm just happy if anyone reads my story for free LOL.

[nicksgal]

In general, I have mixed feelings about monetizing something you're doing for fun - as a hobby, not a career.  On one hand, I get the point that artists should be paid for their work, whether we're talking about music or visual art.  Copyright issues aside, creative writing is also a form of art.  All of it takes considerable time and effort.  And when you start buying special equipment or paying for a domain and web hosting to improve the quality of what you're putting out there, it costs you money too.  I get that, but I have never become a patron for anyone either.  When podcasts become too annoying with all their ads, I start listening to a different podcast.

I wonder at what point people stop thinking "this is a hobby" and start thinking "this is my career." It feels like a slippery slope with original content of whatever. If enough people like it, then why not see if it can make you money and be fun? Fanfic/fanart/fanwhatever feels less like something you could look at one day and say "yes, this will pay my bills" for the legality, but also like you said, it's been free for so long.

All that said, it just feels tacky to start asking for money for something that has always been free.  Part of the fun of fanfic (and YouTube and podcasts and whatever) is that it's free entertainment.  There's a give and take relationship there - sure, I post my stories for free, but there are also plenty of other people in my fandom posting stories that I can read for free, so it goes both ways.  Like you said, if some people start monetizing, it leads to an uneven playing field.  But it may actually hurt the writers who ask for money more because why on earth would you pay for something when you can have it for free?  I would just read something else.  Maybe in a more popular fandom, people would pay to read fanfics, but I don't see anyone doing that in our fandom.  I'm just happy if anyone reads my story for free LOL.

If you really liked that particular author? If you tried other free stories and wanted to go back to the same author? I don't know. I can't see any BSB fans being like "pay to read my fanfic" either, whether that's because we're out of our heyday, it's been free for so long, or we're just here for the community and camaraderie of it all. ("I published this and it is no longer a fanfic," aside.)

Maybe you can research whether BTS fans or One Direction fans have patreons post getting your vaccine, lol!

There's also the author side of it, what happens if you decide to monetize it and then life happens or you get writers block? Are you then obligated to continue writing when inspiration isn't there simply because people are paying you for it? I would hate that. I guess traditionally published authors might have that problem too... I almost feel like feeling obligated to do it for anyone but me would make me want to do it less. Everybody reading it for free though, appreciate y'all!

[nicksgal]

Like I said before, not sure how much of it I'd end up using... whole sentences seem like a lot. But, here and there it's good to distance itself from the loanword way it is now without just banging my head on my keyboard and hoping it looks okay. At least it uses real phonemes and grammar structure.

So in the pattern of being utterly useless as I refresh the forum, I was trying to figure out how this conglang would pronounce Nick's name since "ni" doesn't exist in it (all the n sounds at the beginning of words are either "ng" or "ny") and the things around what would be likely pronunciation are cracking me up.

nyi̥khai /ɲi̥χai̯/ n. knight
nyiko /ɲiko/ n. bath
nyiku /ɲikɯ/ adj. rigid, stiff, stubborn, sturdy

I'm dying laughing. He would hate his name sounding like "stubborn" so much, lmfao. But that "knight" is in that list, how fitting, aww.

[RokofAges75]

I wonder at what point people stop thinking "this is a hobby" and start thinking "this is my career." It feels like a slippery slope with original content of whatever. If enough people like it, then why not see if it can make you money and be fun? Fanfic/fanart/fanwhatever feels less like something you could look at one day and say "yes, this will pay my bills" for the legality, but also like you said, it's been free for so long.

I guess the point when you can make enough money to fully fund your lifestyle without working another job is when it becomes your career.  And I know there are plenty of YouTubers who earn a living that way.  Good for them, I guess, but then they have to keep creating content to keep earning money.  At one point does that start to FEEL more like work than fun?

There's also the author side of it, what happens if you decide to monetize it and then life happens or you get writers block? Are you then obligated to continue writing when inspiration isn't there simply because people are paying you for it? I would hate that. I guess traditionally published authors might have that problem too... I almost feel like feeling obligated to do it for anyone but me would make me want to do it less. Everybody reading it for free though, appreciate y'all!

I would definitely worry about this.  I guess it's not as big of a deal if you're making your money off ads, but if you have paid subscribers to your channel or website or whatever, then there is an obligation to keep providing quality content for them.

There aren't many creators outside of fanfic that I have followed loyally over many years, but one example I can talk about is Jacksfilms on YouTube.  He did the Wimpy Boybands back in the day.  I've been following his channel since the early days of YouTube, and it used to be one of my favorites.  He put out some funny stuff back in the day.  But ever since he moved out to California and turned YouTubing into his career, I feel like the content has actually gotten stupider and less funny.  He's been successful at it, so good for him, but I wonder if the videos would be better if he hadn't sold out.

[RokofAges75]

So in the pattern of being utterly useless as I refresh the forum, I was trying to figure out how this conglang would pronounce Nick's name since "ni" doesn't exist in it (all the n sounds at the beginning of words are either "ng" or "ny") and the things around what would be likely pronunciation are cracking me up.

nyi̥khai /ɲi̥χai̯/ n. knight
nyiko /ɲiko/ n. bath
nyiku /ɲikɯ/ adj. rigid, stiff, stubborn, sturdy

I'm dying laughing. He would hate his name sounding like "stubborn" so much, lmfao. But that "knight" is in that list, how fitting, aww.

LOL.  Now I'm imagining Nick in a bath tub wearing rigid, sturdy, shining armor.

[nicksgal]

I guess the point when you can make enough money to fully fund your lifestyle without working another job is when it becomes your career.  And I know there are plenty of YouTubers who earn a living that way.  Good for them, I guess, but then they have to keep creating content to keep earning money.  At one point does that start to FEEL more like work than fun?

Maybe it depends on what your free content was? Like if it was you doing stupid stuff with your friends, maybe it would still be fun? What YouTube has become for monetized content is wild to me.

I would definitely worry about this.  I guess it's not as big of a deal if you're making your money off ads, but if you have paid subscribers to your channel or website or whatever, then there is an obligation to keep providing quality content for them.

Does doing it for free make it feel like less of an obligation? Anyone here ever felt fanfic writing turning into an obligation? I think in my "supreme lack of creative anything" time, it did feel that way a little for me.

There aren't many creators outside of fanfic that I have followed loyally over many years, but one example I can talk about is Jacksfilms on YouTube.  He did the Wimpy Boybands back in the day.  I've been following his channel since the early days of YouTube, and it used to be one of my favorites.  He put out some funny stuff back in the day.  But ever since he moved out to California and turned YouTubing into his career, I feel like the content has actually gotten stupider and less funny.  He's been successful at it, so good for him, but I wonder if the videos would be better if he hadn't sold out.

I also loved Jacksfilms back in the day! I still sometimes pull up Wimpy Boybands because it felt like a loving parody. I have a particular soft spot for "Super Ultra Super Boy Band Force." Fly on the wings of a dream...

He's gotten less funny over the years. Jenna Marbles was another one I really liked back in the day and I also thought she got less funny overall over time. Every now and again they would all come up with something like they used to make, but they're few and far between.

[nicksgal]

LOL.  Now I'm imagining Nick in a bath tub wearing rigid, sturdy, shining armor.

lmao! No! He would drown and his armor would rust and no longer be shining, lol.

Also, I've literally never written anything mundane like anyone taking a bath? Sitting around a table arguing, sure. Baths? Nope.

[RokofAges75]

Does doing it for free make it feel like less of an obligation? Anyone here ever felt fanfic writing turning into an obligation? I think in my "supreme lack of creative anything" time, it did feel that way a little for me.

Yes and no.  I think the only time I ever feel obligated to write fanfic is when I'm in the middle of a novel that I've already started posting and that people like, and then I get writer's block or life gets in the way and I feel pressured to keep updating.  Holding off on posting new stories right away and hoarding enough chapters to be able to stay weeks or months ahead of what I'm posting has really helped with that.  I haven't felt that way since Sick as My Secrets, which I loved but only really had time to write consistently in the summer because of my master's classes.  I guess I would still feel that way about Guilty Roads if I were trying to force myself to keep writing it, but I've kind of given up on that... the trying to force it, not the hoping it will just happen someday LOL.  I don't have anyone asking about updates on that one anymore, so the sense of obligation is gone.

I also loved Jacksfilms back in the day! I still sometimes pull up Wimpy Boybands because it felt like a loving parody. I have a particular soft spot for "Super Ultra Super Boy Band Force." Fly on the wings of a dream...

I just pulled up his channel and sorted the videos by most popular.  His most popular video is the first WTF Blanket (Snuggie parody) from 12 years ago, which was also one of my favorites.  Wimpy Boybands was not even among the most popular videos, which surprised me, but I had fun watching a bunch of his old As Seen on TV commercial parodies.  I agree about Wimpy Boybands being a loving parody.  I follow him on Twitter, and he went to BSB's show in LA on the DNA tour.  He is definitely a fan.

[RokofAges75]

lmao! No! He would drown and his armor would rust and no longer be shining, lol.

Also, I've literally never written anything mundane like anyone taking a bath? Sitting around a table arguing, sure. Baths? Nope.

LMAO!  How deep is this bath tub?!

Maybe you should write a scene with the boys sitting around the bath tub arguing.  I bet the readers of AO3 would enjoy that.

I write more shower scenes than bath scenes, and they usually serve some purpose.  It's usually either an angsty "I'm going to go cry in the shower so my tears mix with the water" or (in the case of a cancer story) "Oh noes, my hair is falling out!" scene, or it's the start of a sex scene.  I know my foray into slash featured a scene with Nowie fooling around in the shower LOL.

[nicksgal]

Yes and no.  I think the only time I ever feel obligated to write fanfic is when I'm in the middle of a novel that I've already started posting and that people like, and then I get writer's block or life gets in the way and I feel pressured to keep updating.  Holding off on posting new stories right away and hoarding enough chapters to be able to stay weeks or months ahead of what I'm posting has really helped with that.  I haven't felt that way since Sick as My Secrets, which I loved but only really had time to write consistently in the summer because of my master's classes.  I guess I would still feel that way about Guilty Roads if I were trying to force myself to keep writing it, but I've kind of given up on that... the trying to force it, not the hoping it will just happen someday LOL.  I don't have anyone asking about updates on that one anymore, so the sense of obligation is gone.

I do feel less stressed out about in general having my hoard as also helped me feel better about that type of thing. I still feel a little bad if I'm not writing "the next thing," but feel good in general if I'm writing something. Whereas before, I would be like "but you should be writing this!" I guess my only real obligation is my little pre-posting edit I do every week. Last week, it felt like kind of a chore. This week I'm only in the first half of the chapter, but it feels more fun. I don't know if that was because last week's chapter was a "set up" type chapter or what, but... it felt like it dragged... I've always liked the chapter I'm editing this week though, so maybe that's part of it.

Sorry that SAMS felt obligation-esque for you, but it's definitely hard to keep up a pace when there isn't consistent time to write. At least you haven't given up on Guilty Roads! There's hope!

I just pulled up his channel and sorted the videos by most popular.  His most popular video is the first WTF Blanket (Snuggie parody) from 12 years ago, which was also one of my favorites.  Wimpy Boybands was not even among the most popular videos, which surprised me, but I had fun watching a bunch of his old As Seen on TV commercial parodies.  I agree about Wimpy Boybands being a loving parody.  I follow him on Twitter, and he went to BSB's show in LA on the DNA tour.  He is definitely a fan.

Oh, the WTF blanket. Gold. Do they have As Seen on TV stuff anymore? Like the only really ridiculous one I can think of is the Trumpy Bear where you pull a flag blanket out of its back and it has really stupid hair. Glad I'll never see that commercial ever again, lol.

I'm surprised Wimpy Boybands aren't in the most popular. They were all hilarious. If IYWITBGG hadn't just come up on my Spotify shuffle, I was about to go watch them, actually, lol.

[RokofAges75]

Oh, the WTF blanket. Gold. Do they have As Seen on TV stuff anymore? Like the only really ridiculous one I can think of is the Trumpy Bear where you pull a flag blanket out of its back and it has really stupid hair. Glad I'll never see that commercial ever again, lol.

I'm surprised Wimpy Boybands aren't in the most popular. They were all hilarious. If IYWITBGG hadn't just come up on my Spotify shuffle, I was about to go watch them, actually, lol.

The Trumpy Bear!  LMAO.  One of my fourth graders actually introduced me to that years ago; he thought it was hilarious too.  I looked up the video and couldn't believe it was real and not an SNL parody.

I don't watch enough commercials anymore to know.  I record every show I watch regularly so I can fast forward through all the commercials.

I thought Wimpy Boybands was what put him on the map, but maybe it was the commercial parodies.  Wimpy Boybands still rules.

[nicksgal]

LMAO!  How deep is this bath tub?!

LMFAO! I feel like PBox doesn't have bath tubs? So I was picturing a lake, lol.

Okay, I googled "a brief history of bathing culture in Japan" because I have never really considered this, because again, I've never written something that mundane. It said that purification bathing was a luxury among the upper class, but more similar to a modern-day steam room, while warrior and commoner classes would use small tubs or pails and spoon water out. So... Now this:

Maybe you should write a scene with the boys sitting around the bath tub arguing.  I bet the readers of AO3 would enjoy that.

would basically be all of them sitting around nude passing around a bucket while shouting at each other. AO3 would love that. LMFAO!

I write more shower scenes than bath scenes, and they usually serve some purpose.  It's usually either an angsty "I'm going to go cry in the shower so my tears mix with the water" or (in the case of a cancer story) "Oh noes, my hair is falling out!" scene, or it's the start of a sex scene.  I know my foray into slash featured a scene with Nowie fooling around in the shower LOL.

I feel like "Oh noes, my hair is falling out!" could easily turn into "I'm going to cry in the shower so my tears mix with the water" as well. Dual purpose! Nowie are brave. Showers are slippery. lol The first one could also probably turn into shower sex (or vice versa), but I can't see the second one starting or ending with sex, lol.

[nicksgal]

The Trumpy Bear!  LMAO.  One of my fourth graders actually introduced me to that years ago; he thought it was hilarious too.  I looked up the video and couldn't believe it was real and not an SNL parody.

I thought it was a parody the first time someone showed it to me, then I saw it on Comedy Central and was hilariously mortified, lol.

I don't watch enough commercials anymore to know.  I record every show I watch regularly so I can fast forward through all the commercials.

I'll sit through a couple live if it works out that way, but I also like fast forwarding through commercials.

I thought Wimpy Boybands was what put him on the map, but maybe it was the commercial parodies.  Wimpy Boybands still rules.

I thought it was the Backstreet Boys piano sonata, that he then made fun of in Wimpy Boybands, lol.

[RokofAges75]

would basically be all of them sitting around nude passing around a bucket while shouting at each other. AO3 would love that. LMFAO!

LMAO!  AO3 would totally love that, especially if you come up with some kinky tags for it.

I feel like "Oh noes, my hair is falling out!" could easily turn into "I'm going to cry in the shower so my tears mix with the water" as well. Dual purpose! Nowie are brave. Showers are slippery. lol The first one could also probably turn into shower sex (or vice versa), but I can't see the second one starting or ending with sex, lol.

LOL Absolutely.  I had to go search Broken to see if there was actually a scene like this in it, and sure enough... Chapter 30.

“Please, no, not yet…” Nick whimpered, gingerly reaching up to his head.  With his thumb and forefinger, he delicately touched a small lock of hair.  Separating a few hairs from the rest, he gave them a friendly tug.  Instead of clinging fast to his scalp, they slid out easily between his fingers.  Flicking the hair away in disgust and watching it wash down the drain with the rest, Nick could feel himself rapidly losing it.  Tears stung his eyes and slid down his cheeks, mixing with the shower water.

I am nothing if not predictable. LOL

[nicksgal]

LMAO!  AO3 would totally love that, especially if you come up with some kinky tags for it.

"Group bathing and naked arguing" obviously, lol. "Literal spooning" also comes to mind. I'm just not creatively kinky enough, I guess, lol.

LOL Absolutely.  I had to go search Broken to see if there was actually a scene like this in it, and sure enough... Chapter 30.

I am nothing if not predictable. LOL

They just flow together too nicely not to and emo Broken Nick seems predisposed to cry in the shower anyway.