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[RokofAges75]

This is so exciting that you're almost done with all of your SAMS WADD stories! A kudos for you.

Thanks!  It has been nice to actually use the ideas I've come up with instead of letting them sit around in a folder as a vague outline or beginning with no ending forever.

I'm glad you got the first scene out of your system so that you have something for the next time it strikes you.

LMAO at "torturing." I love this whole list. Appreciation for the little things is a great thing to find. Is this a theme in the novel or just something that has stood out to you?

Yeah, it's a start at least - something I can come back to when I feel like it.

That appreciation of the little things is more just my own outsider perspective right now.  I haven't planned it as a major theme of the story, but it may come through in my writing.

The pandemic has also been a good reminder not to take things for granted.  I was mourning the fact that I have to go back to work on Monday, but then I reminded myself that last year, we did not get to go back after spring break, and I felt glad that things are going back to normal.  And of course I am incredibly thankful that I haven't lost any family or friends to COVID, though I know people who have.

[RokofAges75]

This has been my twenty minutes of furiously catching up on the forum post-dinner, lol. I wrote until I got so hungry that I couldn't think anymore because it was going so well. It's been a day! I've basically been going non-stop since 12 or 12:30 until about 7.

Wow, you go girl!  I love days like that, when I just can't seem to tear myself away from the computer.  Especially on Saturdays because then I know I still have another day before I have to act like a functional adult again. LOL

And I got to penning that little note to the narrative and stared off into space for a while, like "Oh jeeze, this is dark and really depressing. Why is this so dark and depressing?" On a whole, PNecklace hasn't felt too dark and depressing, maybe because Nick's like "F-it! I'm going to keep going no matter what!" But it's not like it wasn't going to be dark; PBox is hopeful, but still pretty grim after all. And then it got worse because one of the characters is a secret-keeper and writing their reaction to the dark and depressing thing, I thought "Oh no, this is exactly how the readers might feel, isn't it?" And I know it's not going to be that bad, but it sure makes that dark and depressing thing feel even more dark and depressing when I think of it without my wealth of context and plans.

Anyone else ever feel this way?

I have definitely felt that way.  Hell, I feel that way about the story I'm writing right now.  But just remember, most of our readers are also Team Dark, or they wouldn't want to read our stuff.  Don't underestimate their tolerance for dark and depressing content.  I don't think I have ever thought, "This is just too depressing; I can't read it" and clicked out of a story.  As long as you have some lighter moments along the way to contrast the darkness, it's fine.

[nicksgal]

Yes to all of that!  It is an interesting dynamic.  I think the difference between how Nick and Brian handle themselves in that fight is at least partly a reflection of how they were raised.  Nick doesn't seem to know how to disagree without getting heated and shouting and cursing, probably because his parents didn't set a good example of that when he was a kid.  I imagine there was a lot of screaming, fighting, and cursing in his house growing up.  Brian can stay calm in an argument because he grew up in a stable home with loving parents who probably modeled that for him.  I think Brian can be stubborn, but Nick clearly has the bigger temper.

My sister is two years younger than me, and we shared a room until I was 14.  We had lot of screaming fights and did horrible, hurtful things to each other.  I once whipped her with a belt.  She once threw a hardback copy of Harry Potter and the Goblet of Fire in my face and almost broke my nose.  We still love each other. LOL  Once I thought of it that way, the Frick and Frack fight seemed less of a big deal and more of a normal thing to me.

It's definitely a difference in how they were raised. I've found that anyone who resorts to screaming to win arguments often had a lot of screaming matches happening in their homes growing up. It's a hard thing to deal with. Plus, you definitely have to reframe the way you're trying to disagree and solve a problem with them or it just never gets solved and feels exhausting.

Some of my friends say things exactly like that, but it wasn't until my husband and his younger sister talked about their death matches casually while laughing that I was really like "Okay... this is totally normal apparently?" Glad they're so well-adjusted now, lol!

That's a good idea.  And I don't know what we're so afraid of.  That's the worst thing that could happen if your next project doesn't go well?  You'll stop writing forever?  Doubtful.  If it doesn't go the way we want it to, we'll either change the plan or start a different project.

I have no idea! It's not like not knowing what will happen next is going to cause mass casualties or anything. I guess you could stop writing forever, that's always in the realm of possibility, but it's unlikely. I think it's just a human thing, to fear what's unknown, whether that's big or small.

LOL I don't feel any guilt over it whatsoever.  It is what it is.  However many words or chapters it takes me to tell the story I want to tell is how long it will be.  I don't see myself ever writing another 200-chapter epic, but 50 is realistic.

Never say never. There's a 200-chapter epic on your horizon somewhere.

Good for you!  I love sleeping in.  When I say I write in the morning, that could mean I start anywhere between 9 and 11:59 a.m. LOL.  I am not a morning person.  Today I slept in until about 11, and then I wrote until like 1 or 2.  I finished Chapter 12 during my "morning" session, which is great, but I find that finishing a chapter early in the day makes it harder to write again later that same day because I have such a hard time switching gears and starting a new chapter.  It is definitely easier if I leave myself off in the middle of a scene, especially if I know where it's going.  I love the advice of leaving yourself on a cliffhanger.  Rose always used to laugh at me because I would sometimes leave off in mid-sentence, but it's easier to finish a sentence than start a new one.

Plan-free days are my favorite!  Prior to the pandemic, I always thought I sounded so lame when people would ask what I was doing over the weekend and I would say "I dunno" or "Nothing," but those are my favorite kind of weekends.  "Nothing" actually means "writing."

Oh, 11:59am means morning now? Cool, lol! Great work finishing your twelfth chapter!

I know, I always wonder if I should just leave the chapter unfinished so that I can come back to it and then maybe keep going afterward. Well, Rose can laugh at me too, because I often leave off mid-sentence.

"Nothing" meaning "writing" is way better than "watching tv until I nap on the couch." I usually say "just some stuff around the house," lol.

[nicksgal]

Thanks!  It has been nice to actually use the ideas I've come up with instead of letting them sit around in a folder as a vague outline or beginning with no ending forever.

It's this reason that I'm glad I don't have an idea folder, lol. Or that I only have two ideas that aren't PBox&Co or Gobosei, lol. I hope you get a chance to use all of your ideas and feel great about them.

Yeah, it's a start at least - something I can come back to when I feel like it.

That appreciation of the little things is more just my own outsider perspective right now.  I haven't planned it as a major theme of the story, but it may come through in my writing.

The pandemic has also been a good reminder not to take things for granted.  I was mourning the fact that I have to go back to work on Monday, but then I reminded myself that last year, we did not get to go back after spring break, and I felt glad that things are going back to normal.  And of course I am incredibly thankful that I haven't lost any family or friends to COVID, though I know people who have.

Every time I feel bummed about work, I also remind myself that I didn't get the last three months of the school year with my class and it helps put things back in perspective.

[RokofAges75]

Media marketing is wild, no? You can probably lose so much of yourself when you're portrayed a certain way, especially if it's a certain way in the context of other people, whether that's good things or bad things. I mean, I believe Nick if he says "like everyone knows you are." I'm sure they all have moments where they've been huge dicks to each other. Haven't we all? I would also love to know what he's talking about. Do the other Boys know or just Brian? These are the things we wanted in your autobiography, Nick! lol

Very true.  The whole boyband marketing thing really wasn't fair to any of them.  AJ wasn't really a "bad boy" either, but it's easier to embrace a so-called "bad boy" who's actually a huge softie with a heart of gold, even if he's also an addict, than the "boy next door" who sticks a Trump sign in his yard.

Maybe it's better that we not know what Nick was talking about LOL.  Sometimes ignorance is bliss.

Kevin tries to kick in doors! If that isn't tough love, I don't know what is.

So now the question is, do we ever have Nick being the "tough love" person? Or does he get absolved from that to his frequent status as main character?

Good for AJ being a prominent supporting character.

While it's not fanfic, I think the Frick & Frack fight was a great example of Nick showing tough love when he confronted Brian about his voice.  No one else wanted to talk about it, but it needed to be addressed, and Nick wasn't afraid to go there, even though he knew it would be hard for Brian to hear.  The love part comes around at the end when he goes into the Michael Jordan analogy, which I adore.

So yes, I think Nick can be the tough love person in the right situation, especially now that he's got his own shit together.  He's on the receiving end of AJ's tough love in my story because AJ is the "sober" one (allegedly), and Nick is not.  (And Kevin is currently not capable of kicking doors down.)

[nicksgal]

Wow, you go girl!  I love days like that, when I just can't seem to tear myself away from the computer.  Especially on Saturdays because then I know I still have another day before I have to act like a functional adult again. LOL

Thanks! It's been a whirlwind of a day. I spent entirely too long looking up a couple of cursory things, but on a whole it's been very productive for a chapter I was humming and hawing about.

I have definitely felt that way.  Hell, I feel that way about the story I'm writing right now.  But just remember, most of our readers are also Team Dark, or they wouldn't want to read our stuff.  Don't underestimate their tolerance for dark and depressing content.  I don't think I have ever thought, "This is just too depressing; I can't read it" and clicked out of a story.  As long as you have some lighter moments along the way to contrast the darkness, it's fine.

Glad I'm not alone. You're right, I should embrace the sadist in me and think "Oh boy, if I feel upset and concerned alongside my secret-keeper and I know what's coming next, those readers will feel extra gutted because they do not. Excellent."  

I can't think of a time I stopped reading something entirely because it was too depressing either. Taken a break to stare off into space aimlessly, sure.

[RokofAges75]

Never say never. There's a 200-chapter epic on your horizon somewhere.

LOL I know not to say "never" because then I will do it someday!  That's usually how it goes.  Maybe I'll write a fantasy epic someday!  As long as it's not another Nick cancer story LOL.

Oh, 11:59am means morning now? Cool, lol! Great work finishing your twelfth chapter!

I know, I always wonder if I should just leave the chapter unfinished so that I can come back to it and then maybe keep going afterward. Well, Rose can laugh at me too, because I often leave off mid-sentence.

"Nothing" meaning "writing" is way better than "watching tv until I nap on the couch." I usually say "just some stuff around the house," lol.

AM means morning, so yes!  LOL I have a sign in my kitchen that says "I am a total morning person after 11:30am," and that is so me.  I've always been a night owl.

If I find myself continuing to write in my head after I close the computer, I usually open it up again and keep going while the words are flowing so I don't forget them, but I like when I can leave myself off in the middle of a scene or sentence with some idea of what comes next, but not knowing the exact words.

LOL You know my writing is going well when I start falling behind on TV shows or make it to afternoon without turning on my TV because I usually spend a lot of time lying on the couch watching TV.

[nicksgal]

Very true.  The whole boyband marketing thing really wasn't fair to any of them.  AJ wasn't really a "bad boy" either, but it's easier to embrace a so-called "bad boy" who's actually a huge softie with a heart of gold, even if he's also an addict, than the "boy next door" who sticks a Trump sign in his yard.

Maybe it's better that we not know what Nick was talking about LOL.  Sometimes ignorance is bliss.

He was in his early twenties. All guys in their early twenties think they are "bad boys," lol. I love our bad boy with a heart of gold.

Does this make Brian a "bad boy next door"?   lol

You're probably right, but now I just want to know more, lol!

While it's not fanfic, I think the Frick & Frack fight was a great example of Nick showing tough love when he confronted Brian about his voice.  No one else wanted to talk about it, but it needed to be addressed, and Nick wasn't afraid to go there, even though he knew it would be hard for Brian to hear.  The love part comes around at the end when he goes into the Michael Jordan analogy, which I adore.

So yes, I think Nick can be the tough love person in the right situation, especially now that he's got his own shit together.  He's on the receiving end of AJ's tough love in my story because AJ is the "sober" one (allegedly), and Nick is not.  (And Kevin is currently not capable of kicking doors down.)

I did mean in fanfic specifically, but you're absolutely spot on and his Michael Jordan analogy was beautiful. We should all give Nick some more moments to be the tough love person.

That's a perfect situation for AJ to give tough love, allegedly.

[RokofAges75]

Glad I'm not alone. You're right, I should embrace the sadist in me and think "Oh boy, if I feel upset and concerned alongside my secret-keeper and I know what's coming next, those readers will feel extra gutted because they do not. Excellent." 

I can't think of a time I stopped reading something entirely because it was too depressing either. Taken a break to stare off into space aimlessly, sure.

Oh, absolutely.  I have read plenty of stories that I found depressing, but those usually end up being the ones I love and remember the most because they made me feel something.  I look back at some of the old stuff on my favorites list and think, "This is really not as well-written as I remember it," but I could never remove them when I have such vivid memories of sobbing in front of my computer as I read them for the first time.

So what's the most dark/depressing story everyone has read?  Written?

[nicksgal]

LOL I know not to say "never" because then I will do it someday!  That's usually how it goes.  Maybe I'll write a fantasy epic someday!  As long as it's not another Nick cancer story LOL.

"I can't see myself" is the cop out version of leaving the door slightly ajar on the way to "never," lol. Maybe you should! They're pretty fun, albeit all consuming. Maybe you can write an epic fantasy Nick cancer story... somehow, lol.

AM means morning, so yes!  LOL I have a sign in my kitchen that says "I am a total morning person after 11:30am," and that is so me.  I've always been a night owl.

If I find myself continuing to write in my head after I close the computer, I usually open it up again and keep going while the words are flowing so I don't forget them, but I like when I can leave myself off in the middle of a scene or sentence with some idea of what comes next, but not knowing the exact words.

LOL You know my writing is going well when I start falling behind on TV shows or make it to afternoon without turning on my TV because I usually spend a lot of time lying on the couch watching TV.

I love that little sign. That's me, but 10am or so.

Oh definitely, if I have exact words, I will never leave the computer/phone/tablet/whatever. It's when they get vague that I think it's time for a break.

Same. I am only caught up on Masked Singer. Our tv is usually on because of hubs, but today, I ate breakfast and then sat in our office all day until dinner. I didn't even turn on any music, which is atypical for me. I was in the zone! (As I mentioned, we seem to be having the same two conversations across several posts, lol.)

[RokofAges75]

He was in his early twenties. All guys in their early twenties think they are "bad boys," lol. I love our bad boy with a heart of gold.

Does this make Brian a "bad boy next door"?   lol

LOL!

This is why I love A-Rok.  AJ and Brian are such opposites in so many ways, but they have such a great relationship.  They're like yin and yang.

[nicksgal]

Oh, absolutely.  I have read plenty of stories that I found depressing, but those usually end up being the ones I love and remember the most because they made me feel something.  I look back at some of the old stuff on my favorites list and think, "This is really not as well-written as I remember it," but I could never remove them when I have such vivid memories of sobbing in front of my computer as I read them for the first time.

So what's the most dark/depressing story everyone has read?  Written?

That's the goal right? To make readers feel something. There's several published novels out there that I would call "not that great" that clearly meant a lot to so many people. I think what you get out of it is probably better than how well or not well it was written.

I can't think of a fanfic off the top of my head at the moment, but Night comes to mind right away.

Written goes without saying.

[nicksgal]

LOL!

This is why I love A-Rok.  AJ and Brian are such opposites in so many ways, but they have such a great relationship.  They're like yin and yang.

And with their powers combined, they are Captain Planet! lol

They're the odd couple. It works when there's enough balance to off-set the differences. And when they're characters, it's a nice built in juxtaposition.

[RokofAges75]

"I can't see myself" is the cop out version of leaving the door slightly ajar on the way to "never," lol. Maybe you should! They're pretty fun, albeit all consuming. Maybe you can write an epic fantasy Nick cancer story... somehow, lol.

LOL Absolutely.  Because I have learned that when I say I will "never" do something, I end up doing it down the road.  So maybe I will write a 200-chapter Nick cancer fantasy epic.  It would probably be better as a sci-fi.  Maybe something like "Fantastic Voyage" (or that Rugrats episode where Chuckie eats the watermelon seed) with the other Boys shrinking themselves and going on an adventure inside Nick's brain to destroy the tumor.

Same. I am only caught up on Masked Singer. Our tv is usually on because of hubs, but today, I ate breakfast and then sat in our office all day until dinner. I didn't even turn on any music, which is atypical for me. I was in the zone! (As I mentioned, we seem to be having the same two conversations across several posts, lol.)

I haven't even watched Masked Singer from last week!  I didn't watch any of my shows until days later because I was so off schedule with my days of the week LOL.

[RokofAges75]

That's the goal right? To make readers feel something. There's several published novels out there that I would call "not that great" that clearly meant a lot to so many people. I think what you get out of it is probably better than how well or not well it was written.

Absolutely!

I can't think of a fanfic off the top of my head at the moment, but Night comes to mind right away.

Written goes without saying.

Ooh yeah, anything about the Holocaust is bound to be dark and depressing.

I think the last published novel that destroyed me was actually "The One and Only Ivan" LOL.  I loved it, but it's one I will never be able to read aloud to my class because of a certain part in the middle that made me ugly cry.  I can't handle sad animal stuff.

As far as fanfics go, Swollen Issues III wins for the most depressing one I've read.  That story was like torture porn for medical drama lovers.  In terms of darkest, though, I think I would have to go with a suspense story like Signal to Noise or Mind Games or one of Mare's, maybe It Stays With You.  Something where the boys literally do get tortured, whether physically or emotionally.

From a writing standpoint, the most depressing novel I've written is probably Sick as My Secrets, and the darkest is definitely A Heart That Isn't Mine.  I'm separating "depressing" and "dark" because although they go together, I define them differently.  A depressing story is sad and angsty, but a dark story is also twisted or scary in some way.