Absolute Chaos Discussion Boards
Miscellaneous => Chatterbox => The AC Book Club => Topic started by: honey on May 07, 2009, 12:41:16 AM
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LOL ok, the discussion can be official now! And The sorcers stone is this months book, but I'm gonna go out on a limb here and say that people will want to talk about all the HP books, so this thread is not limited to the first book alone.
I just got my book today so I'll try to get a little reading done here and join in the discussion as soon as I can! Ok, ladies, (and Ash! ;) ) DISCUSS AWAY!
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I've read it, but it was a couple of years ago so will re-read it so I can remember everything.
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I wonder why the book is called The Philosopher's Stone over here?
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I wonder why the book is called The Philosopher's Stone over here?
Mine is also called the Philosopher's Stone.
From what I recall they changed the name because Scholastic didn't think American children would be interested in reading anything they would assume was about philosophy; that Americans would find it incomprehensib le, and misleading.
... which kind says to me the publisher assumed all children in the US and dumb and ignorant lol I'm not saying they say... Scholastic did!
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I'm on the "Goblet of Fire" in my quest to reread them all before the movie now. I reread S.S about three weeks ago and yeah... the first two books are definitely more along the lines of children's books. The plot definitely develops a lot after that - so if those who are just now getting started aren't thrilled, give the third and fourth books a try before giving up.
As for the philosopher/sorcerer thing... the Philosopher's Stone makes more sense because it's an actual legendary thing... as was Nicholas Flamel. But ya know, us Americans are just too dumb to figure any of that out on our own.
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They thought the word "philosopher" was misleading, and "sorcerer" sounded better, gave it a more magical feel. I'm not a big fan of the Americanizatio n, although I do think Sorcerer's Stone has a better ring as a title. It's the alliteration LOL.
I know the text of the first [few?] books was "Americanized" a bit too, replacing some British slang that they thought American children wouldn't understand with more American terms. Not having read any of the UK versions, except the sixth, I'm not sure when they stopped doing that, but the last few books aren't edited that way, from what I know. The 6th book came out while I was in Scotland, so I have the UK edition of that, along with the American version, so that's the only one I've read both editions of, and I don't remember noticing any differences in the actual text. There are a lot of Britishy terms that I noticed reading the UK version that are also in the US version, so I'm about positive it wasn't Americanized in that way. I was startled to discover that the UK edition only uses one apostrophe for quotation marks... ' instead of ". That was the biggest difference to me LOL.
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LOL ok, the discussion can be official now! And The sorcers stone is this months book, but I'm gonna go out on a limb here and say that people will want to talk about all the HP books, so this thread is not limited to the first book alone.
I would say just maybe give a spoiler warning for in-depth discussion of the later books, particularly the sixth and seventh, since the movies aren't out, for those who are just reading the series for the first time. For those who have read it, we don't want to give away the whole ending before they get there! :)
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I've been reading a chapter a night before bed since Tuesday, and I'm greatly enjoying reading it again. I haven't read this one since before Deathly Hallows came out, so it's fun to go back to the very beginning. Although it definitely is more of a children's book than the later ones, I think that's what I like about it... it brings out the kid in everyone who enjoys it and can find the magic in it. I read it for the first time when I was like 16-17, so not really a "child" anymore, and yet it made me feel like a kid again then and still sort of does. Who wouldn't want to suddenly find out they're magic and be whisked away from their miserable life and everyone who's ever mistreated them to a magical place where they're not only accepted, but even famous and popular!
Like Rose said in the other thread, it's a story of self-discovery, which is something we all can relate to... really, maybe adults more so than kids, because we've all been through or are still going through that young adult phase of self-discovery that comes as you transition from school to the real world.
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Anyway, I'm still on the Dursley part now, and I have to say... the cynical realist and teacher in me has always been troubled by the fact that poor Harry has grown up in a home where he is mistreated, neglected, and unloved, without whatever the UK's version of DCFS is getting involved, and somehow still turns out to be a kind, intelligent boy with morals and a sense of humor, who knows how to be a friend and is capable of loving. The mistreated orphan is such a classic staple of these kinds of books, and it totally works; we're immediately drawn to Harry because we sympathize with him, and it wouldn't work if he wasn't a good, likeable character. But unfortunately, in the real world, a kid who had grown up in the same situation would have so many issues by the time he was eleven, which would probably just get worse as he continued through adolescence. Harry turns out to be amazingly well-adjusted, given his upbringing.
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That bothered me, too, Julie. I think that's why I had trouble getting into the books the first few times I tried. I mean it's possible, of course, for an abused, neglected child to turn out like Harry, but usually it's because they did have at least some positive relationships. I mean without going into my own personal demons much, I had a lot of childhood issues and should probably be even more f'ed up than I am, but I had my older sisters and we all kind of helped negate all the bad things that went on. Plus, of course, I have a lot of positive childhood memories that also help balance out the bad things. Harry apparently doesn't have any of that and yet still inately knows how to be a good friend. He does have some insecurities, but quite honestly, with his past, I'd kind of think he'd battle those a lot more than he does.
That said, the mistreated orphan does work beautifully for automatically drawing a person in to a character. It works, but sometimes I feel it's almost a 'cheat' of sorts to MAKE you like a character. (This actually is a topic I've thought of bringing up in the debate threads, and probably should some time, but...erm...ye ah. lol.)
Do you think you'd like Harry as a character as much if he'd been raised by a family like the Weasleys? Does his having a rotten childhood bring that much to his character do you think? (Of course he'd still have lost his biological parents, so that whole part of the tragedy would still be intact...)
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I have to admit Chaos, I did kinda have to trudge through till Hagrid came in, in Sorcerer's Stone (can't believe the title is the Americanized version, how funny lol. But it catches attention), and that's because of the fact Harry came out far too well adjusted for such an abused child. By all rights he should be a psychological mess by the time he arrived at Hogwarts. I mean honestly, there should be more trust issues, he probably would use people in his fear of trust. He'd be more of an attention seeker (even famous lol). He's way too well adjusted.
At the same time, I doubt the story would work well otherwise. A normal kid discovering he's a wizard? okay but a bit lame. An abused child, finding out he's really something special? That's more attractive. That's why so many people love the story of Cinderella.
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Yeah, I do get the Cinderella thing, and it's not so much that they've made him an abused character; that really does work for the story. It just still kind of bothers me that it's SO one-sidedly a bad childhood (abusive/neglectful family, no friends, etc, NOTHING happy to help balance it out at least a little bit to explain why he's inately a good, compassionate being) that it just makes the character ring really false to me during the first book (so far). Given, it's a story for younger kids, so I can understand completely why it doesn't really show his journey from being a f'ed up kid to learning how to really be a friend, etc. To me, that could have been a really interesting part of the journey. But again I can see why she didn't tell that story.
Now mind you I love the HP books (once I finally did get into them), this is just my 'if there's one thing that bothered me' sort of ranting. lol. It did bother me, but not enough to make me dislike the series (and I think they kind of do delve a bit more into his psyche in the later books, so it makes more sense then why she had him have such a negative childhood, but...it stll rings false to me (which in fantasy books isn't necessarily a bad thing...lol).
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I think the whole orphan/terrible family situation worked well for the story because Harry's life with the Dursleys is the complete opposite of his life in the wizarding world and at Hogwarts, and the point of at least the first book was that he finally found a place where he fit in and made friends and found happiness. The two situations are contrasted nicely, but I agree that Harry from an emotional standpoint isn't portrayed as realistically as he could. But given that it's a children's book, like Chaos said, that is kind of understandable too.
The books actually do show some good effects on Harry's personality that his background gave him. Because he WASN'T raised the same way Dudley was, he is the opposite of Dudley - grateful and humble instead of spoiled and entitled, selfless instead of selfish, etc. Also, I think because he never had any friends or close family growing up, he latches on to the friendships and bonds he does make in the wizarding world, and would do anything for those people. And that love he has for his friends and people he views as family is so important to the series as a whole. And while it's true that in real life, he would probably have such attachment and trust issues that he would have a lot more trouble forming those close bonds, it works for the story.
Edit: Also, at the risk of revealing too much (so... spoiler warning?), when you learn more about Voldemort's back story in the later books, especially book 6, and see the similarities between his childhood and Harry's, I think you can see why JKR chose to make Harry so unusually well-adjusted. Harry's upbringing made him a stronger, better person in the end. Because he was so neglected as a child, he's never comfortable being in the spotlight in the wizarding world and doesn't relish being "The Boy Who Lived" or "The Chosen One." Whereas Voldemort takes the realization that he is a wizard and runs with it, feeling that he IS special and is destined for more. His own abandonment issues manifest not only in his evilness, but in the fact that although he has a whole horde of faithful followers, he has no attachments himself and has no qualms about killing or sacrificing his own allies. He is the anti-Harry. So I think maybe that's also why JKR wrote Harry as a pretty normal, modest, loving person after all, because she wanted to juxtapose him with Voldy's arrogance, autonomy, and hate. They are two extremes that make both characters larger than life, but that's the fun of a fantasy story. They follow the classic archetypes of the hero and the villain so well.
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I also think that as you read on and read the later stories you'll realize that Harry actually has quite a lot of issues :crazy: That he's not at all the "well adjusted" child that he appears to be in the first book. He has to work through and deal with a lot as he gets older.
And I think we also have to realize that JK Rowling never exactly set Harry up as a horribly abused and neglected child. Harry had a crappy childhood, yes. But she made it very clear that he was fed and had a roof over his head and was sent to school (where he clearly did get some sort of edumacation and though it was never pointed out - likely had some friends). Don't get me wrong, the Dursleys sucked, but I've seen in my job, children come from far worse and turn out far better...
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True, I think the fifth book is the best example of these issues coming out... he's such an angry teenager in that one LOL. And he does have a lot of other issues that just come from his personality and the crap he gets put through in the wizarding world.
And also true, there are a lot worse cases in real life. But to be emotionally abused, ignored, and unloved, even while being fed and sheltered, is still pretty traumatic. But you're right; some kids do come through it and turn out alright.
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I am almost done with the first book. I don't really have much to say lol it's a cute book and a good read. I enjoy JK's writing style. I will read the others in a while. I was at barnes and Noble today and almost picked up the series but decided to wait because there were two other books that were calling my name.
As far as the whole horrible childhood thing, he needed to have that in order for the book to work, I think. If he came from a loving, caring family I don't think it would have had the same effect. That whole scenerio was very James and the Giant Peach-ish to me. LOL
And speaking from personal experience (unfortunately) I can say that child protective services doesn't step in nearly as much as they should on anything. If no one reports it, it goes un-noticed.
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^ and speaking from other personal experience, sometimes when they do step in, the kid turns out even more effed up. I still need to start reading it! I found it, but then realized that this other book I've been waiting for for months was finally released, so I read that one first. But I finished it so I'm going to get started here soon. I'm glad to see that you liked it so much Rose! It gives me more hope lol!
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And, yeah, Rachel, my husband told met he exact same thing. He told me to try with the first one, but if I couldn't get in to it then just skip to the third or fourth book. He said the later books are much better.
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As far as the whole horrible childhood thing, he needed to have that in order for the book to work, I think. If he came from a loving, caring family I don't think it would have had the same effect. That whole scenerio was very James and the Giant Peach-ish to me. LOL
And speaking from personal experience (unfortunately) I can say that child protective services doesn't step in nearly as much as they should on anything. If no one reports it, it goes un-noticed.
... Or they step in, and then do nothing!! Kids get taken away from their alcoholic, abusive mothers for a few weeks, and then they go back!! Like an alcoholic mom who beats or verbally abuses her children is going to pull a 180 in a month! Ugh. But then, taking a child away from his or her family is also traumatic, so who knows... it's hard to know what the right thing to do is in those situations sometimes. They're usually not black and white.
Anyway, back to the book, I agree with the James and the Giant Peach thing. JK Rowling's style has always reminded me of Roald Dahl's. They both have that quirky, funny, at times gross-out style of writing that is entertaining for both kids and adults.
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And, yeah, Rachel, my husband told met he exact same thing. He told me to try with the first one, but if I couldn't get in to it then just skip to the third or fourth book. He said the later books are much better.
I would skip to the third if you find you can't get into the first. That's where you start to get more of the back story that leads into the deeper stuff. I dunno, I still feel like you would be missing something if you didn't read the first two books, but I guess if you've seen the movies, you would be fine with knowing the basics.
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... Or they step in, and then do nothing!! Kids get taken away from their alcoholic, abusive mothers for a few weeks, and then they go back!! Like an alcoholic mom who beats or verbally abuses her children is going to pull a 180 in a month! Ugh. But then, taking a child away from his or her family is also traumatic, so who knows... it's hard to know what the right thing to do is in those situations sometimes. They're usually not black and white.
Ugh! Yes!! Even more annoying!
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I am almost done with the first book. I don't really have much to say lol it's a cute book and a good read. I enjoy JK's writing style. I will read the others in a while. I was at barnes and Noble today and almost picked up the series but decided to wait because there were two other books that were calling my name.
As far as the whole horrible childhood thing, he needed to have that in order for the book to work, I think. If he came from a loving, caring family I don't think it would have had the same effect. That whole scenerio was very James and the Giant Peach-ish to me. LOL
And speaking from personal experience (unfortunately) I can say that child protective services doesn't step in nearly as much as they should on anything. If no one reports it, it goes un-noticed.
Thats too true. I saw it happen (well, not happen I guess I should say) with my cousins.
But- and sort of spoiler alert, although I'm not going into detail- Harry couldn't have been taken away from the Dursley's house. As horrible a home as it was, there is a reason he's there.
End mini-spoiler. LoL Anyways, I hadn't thought about what you guys were saying about horrible childhood = well-adjusted kid. That's an interesting point. Although even in the first book, he's not known for following the rules at school. He is always working for the good, but he isn't perfect.
Also, I think the fact that he is still "pure of heart" is one of the points: he's Harry Potter. He's the only one who's survived the killing curse. Especially when it was Voldemort trying to kill him, that's impressive. I think this aspect of his character is part of what makes him the hero of the story and sets him apart from others.
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True on all points. :)
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I love how magical the first book is. How a child who feels alone in the world and totally neglected like that, finds somewhere where he fits in. It's the perfect fairytale really.
I agree with what's already been said too, because Harry comes from a nice house, nice area, goes to school and is fed, he doesn't look neglected and therefore the social services wouldn't pick it up unless it was reported to them.
I actually went to the castle which they use for Hogwarts (Alnwick Castle) and it was great.
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I read the first chapter while on the elliptical last night! Woot! lol. I will read more today, but for now all I have to say is that I kind of like having seen the movie first for this book, because the movie seemed to be cast so well, that it's so easy to picture everyone. It did keep my attention better than I thought it would too. I'm looking forward to reading a little more later today.
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All I have to say (at the moment, I'll add more later LOL) is that....
I really wish the UPS dude would get my Deathly Hallows book here already. I just finished Half Blood Prince, and am dying for the final book.
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I read the first chapter while on the elliptical last night! Woot! lol. I will read more today, but for now all I have to say is that I kind of like having seen the movie first for this book, because the movie seemed to be cast so well, that it's so easy to picture everyone. It did keep my attention better than I thought it would too. I'm looking forward to reading a little more later today.
Very true; I find that when I read the first book in particular now, I picture the movie and hear the actors saying the lines as I read. Because the first two books are so much shorter than the others, the first two movies are able to follow them pretty closely.
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All I have to say (at the moment, I'll add more later LOL) is that....
I really wish the UPS dude would get my Deathly Hallows book here already. I just finished Half Blood Prince, and am dying for the final book.
I bet!! Without saying too much, what'd you think of the end of HBP?! Were you shocked? Did you cry? Or had it been spoiled for you already?
That's the one I spent two days holed up in my flat in Scotland reading, and I just remember being like, "What!! That did not just happen!!!" Such a great twist!
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I bet!! Without saying too much, what'd you think of the end of HBP?! Were you shocked? Did you cry? Or had it been spoiled for you already?
That's the one I spent two days holed up in my flat in Scotland reading, and I just remember being like, "What!! That did not just happen!!!" Such a great twist!
I know your not asking me, lol. But.. oh my goodness, did I cry. And I'm not one of those people who usually does when it comes to books/movies. Wow. Wonderful book. And I'm like you-- someone spoiled book 5 for me (I can't tell you how upset I was), so with book 6 and especially 7, I wouldn't talk on the phone or get on the internet or leave my house until I'd finished the book!
Oh and for those of you who have finished book one: did any of you figure out the "who-dun-it"? I don't think we've talked as much about that aspect of it. The book is a wonderful kid mystery. Especially later on in the series, there are so many clues to try to pick up on. I guess that goes along with the intricate plotline we've already talked about. Anyway, I was surprised by the ending. Since it was a children's book, I wasn't expecting twists in the story at that point.
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I answered Julie in an IM but I'll answer here.
I didn't cry but I was beyond shocked. I read and reread a couple times to make sure I got it right.
And my book arrived, you'll get my full reaction on the series once I've read DH lol.
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Oh and for those of you who have finished book one: did any of you figure out the "who-dun-it"? I don't think we've talked as much about that aspect of it. The book is a wonderful kid mystery. Especially later on in the series, there are so many clues to try to pick up on. I guess that goes along with the intricate plotline we've already talked about. Anyway, I was surprised by the ending. Since it was a children's book, I wasn't expecting twists in the story at that point.
Yeah, I don't think I figured out the mystery in Book 1 either. I'm not particularly good at who-dun-its anyway, but JKR always managed to keep me guessing throughout the series. Even when I thought I had it figured out, I was never totally right... and usually I was just plain wrong LOL. But that's what made it more fun, cause I could be shocked by all the twists!
I never had anything spoiled for me, thankfully. I remember when the sixth book came out, I heard later about people who got the book at midnight, flipped to the end, and then rode around shouting out their car windows, "____________ kills ___________!!!" to everyone who was lined up at the bookstores for the midnight release parties. I saw a video of one after the fact. Isn't that horrible?! People completely flipped out, they were so pissed off, which I can totally understand! I avoided the internet and everything too until after I had finished.
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I think I cried a little at HBP, but the one that made me bawl like a baby was Deathly Hallows... in several parts!! Goblet of Fire tends to make me cry a little too towards the end.
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I'd better get reading then! I've actually got all the books in my house but just haven't got around to reading them yet (apart from Philosopher's Stone).
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I think I cried a little at HBP, but the one that made me bawl like a baby was Deathly Hallows... in several parts!! Goblet of Fire tends to make me cry a little too towards the end.
I totally bawled at that one... totally :-[
And then I was just more angry at the Half Blood Prince ending...
And then parts of Deathly Hollows... le sniff.
For me though, I remember JKR saying two of the main characters die and everyone freaking out trying to figure who they'd be...
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LOL yep, I remember all that debate... for the last three books, really. But jeez, in DH... which two would you call the main characters? Sooo many...
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LOL yep, I remember all that debate... for the last three books, really. But jeez, in DH... which two would you call the main characters? Sooo many...
Exactly! I was like... um... two? Try like twenty!
And then I thought well maybe she qualified a main character as one who appeared in every single book... but even then there were more than two!
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Yeah, I don't think I figured out the mystery in Book 1 either. I'm not particularly good at who-dun-its anyway, but JKR always managed to keep me guessing throughout the series. Even when I thought I had it figured out, I was never totally right... and usually I was just plain wrong LOL. But that's what made it more fun, cause I could be shocked by all the twists!
I never had anything spoiled for me, thankfully. I remember when the sixth book came out, I heard later about people who got the book at midnight, flipped to the end, and then rode around shouting out their car windows, "____________ kills ___________!!!" to everyone who was lined up at the bookstores for the midnight release parties. I saw a video of one after the fact. Isn't that horrible?! People completely flipped out, they were so pissed off, which I can totally understand! I avoided the internet and everything too until after I had finished.
There was a tshirt someone made that said "______ dies." And goes on to say "i just saved you X pages and X hours of your time." I saw it somewhere on the internet... after I read the book thankfully!
If I ever saw someone wearing that, I'd probably hit them. ::)
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So who all is reading this for the first time? I know Rose did, and Kelly is... anyone else? Are you enjoying it?
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And once again, we should probably start thinking about next month. Anyone want to take it?
I just finished reading it for the second time. I had gotten all the way to the last chapter but then stopped when I started another book. It was good, very close to the movie, nothing really all that different in my opinion anyway. I think the only bad thing with seeing the movies before reading the books is that I just see all those people and hear them instead of creating an image of what I think those characters should be like on my own.
Overall, I enjoyed it and will be reading the rest this summer.
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I want July, if that's open. I'm in school till June 10 and then taking a class the week after, so I'm not gonna be around much for the first half of the month.
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There was a tshirt someone made that said "______ dies." And goes on to say "i just saved you X pages and X hours of your time." I saw it somewhere on the internet... after I read the book thankfully!
If I ever saw someone wearing that, I'd probably hit them. ::)
I own that shirt...lol
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So I'm like two thirds of the way done. I'll admit it's been a little slow for me but I am liking it more than I thought I would. It's only slow because it's EXACTLY like the movie and I've seen the movie enough times that there's nothing really that exciting for me. I'd bet that if I can make it to some of the later books there would be more appeal for me because I'm sure there are things in the books that they couldn't cover in the movies.
It is fun though. I've been reading a little each night while I get on the elliptical. I do like it, it just hasn't been a page turner is all. But I think if' I'd never seen the movie before I could have read it a lot faster.
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I want July, if that's open. I'm in school till June 10 and then taking a class the week after, so I'm not gonna be around much for the first half of the month.
You can have July :)
So, any takers for June?
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I was just telling my sister that yesterday. I said this was one of the few books I have ever read that was almost identical to the movie. I'm sure the later ones probably aren't as true to form, but I was kind of surprised at how it really didn't stray too far from the novel.
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yeah, it was like... EXACTLY the same.
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As the books get bigger, the movies included less. It was easy to get the smaller books all into the movie but the last few movies have had entire subplots left out.
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Still no takers for June?
If not, the book i'm picking is A Thousand Splendid Suns by Khaled Hosseini
http://www.khaledhosseini.com/hosseini-books-splendidsuns.html
One of the best books I have ever read and very worthy of a nice book club type discussion. So, if no one objects, that will be our June selection.
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I own that shirt...lol
Oh. :o
Haha. Do you wear it, or is it more of a momento? Just tell me you didn't wear it like right when the book came out. LoL
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I've never worn it haha. I actually did get book six spoiled for me so that's kind of why I bought it. (plus it was cheap, only 5 bucks at a Goodwill store). I didn't get it until 2007..so quite a while after the book had been out :P
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I saw this shirt once on threadless.com that was called Spoilt, and it had spoilers for everything... that one, Star Wars, Planet of the Apes, Dallas, Fight Club, A Beautiful Mind, all the classic ones LOL. It was pretty funny.
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I've never worn it haha. I actually did get book six spoiled for me so that's kind of why I bought it. (plus it was cheap, only 5 bucks at a Goodwill store). I didn't get it until 2007..so quite a while after the book had been out :P
Oh no-- I'm sorry someone ruined that book for you! Someone ruined 5 for me, so I know how you feel. Haha, thats funny you found it at Goodwill!
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^ Hey, I just read your new Brian Potter story! LOL Loved the first chapter! Cute idea!
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So, I take it by the total ignoring of my post that you are all okay with next month's choice? LOL
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Well, no one claimed June, so yeah, fine by me! :)
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I love the way that The Philosophers Stone movie is identical to the book, I'm wondering as the books go on, how they will differ from the movie.
I'm currently reading The Chamber of Secrets :)