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Author Topic: 2 Writing 2 Thread  (Read 122217 times)

nicksgal

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Re: 2 Writing 2 Thread
« Reply #465 on: February 20, 2021, 09:36:36 PM »

Thanks!  Same to you!

I accidentally deleted this. I meant to say thanks as well. We've got this! We'll just keep boosting and inspiring each other and everybody else who joins our fun little discussions.

LOL No.  But I never thought Broken or BMS would be as long as they were!  However many chapters it takes me to tell the story I want to tell is how long it will be.

That's a fair point, but you can bet I'll try my best to cap them at a certain amount if I can, haha.

During my little rewrite, I found that I'd glossed over stuff that seemed like filler, but could have been great additions to the story. Do you ever do that or do you include just about everything in your stories?

Did you watch that mermaid "documentary" Animal Planet did a while back?  It was called "Mermaids: The Body Found."  It was fake, but it was so fascinating.  Great science fiction that almost made it seem possible for mermaids to be real.

I didn't! That does sound interesting! I love stuff like that, but I also like just believing that mermaids could be a possibility. The Smithsonian channel is the one I like watching those little documentaries from the most.

All those legend type things are really fun, because it's fascinating, but also shared cultural history. I'm working on little scene now that talks about the Altair and Vega legend and including it was a happy accident because of one of those "seemed like filler" things I glossed over before, but now it feels like it could be some fun foreshadowing for what's to come.
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~*Dee*~

People think it would be fun to be a bird because you could fly. But they forget the negative side, which is the preening.

From "And Now, Deep Thoughts" by Jack Handey

RokofAges75

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Re: 2 Writing 2 Thread
« Reply #466 on: February 20, 2021, 10:22:50 PM »

That's a fair point, but you can bet I'll try my best to cap them at a certain amount if I can, haha.

Do you have a certain limit you like to cap them at?  Like 50 chapters?

The only time I try to cap myself is if it would make the difference between ending on a nice round number or not.  Usually that's a matter of either combining shorter chapters or dividing longer chapters more than actually editing myself LOL.


During my little rewrite, I found that I'd glossed over stuff that seemed like filler, but could have been great additions to the story. Do you ever do that or do you include just about everything in your stories?

Broken and BMS have quite a bit of filler, which explains their length.  I went a little subplot crazy with BMS because I was worried I would get bored with the main romantic storyline LOL.  But at the same time, it was nice to have some comic relief and some cute, fluffy scenes amid all the drama, and that was how I worked the other guys into it more so it wasn't just all about Nick and Claire.

That being said, I have learned to cut back on filler and just focus on scenes that move the plot forward.  Every scene should have a purpose, besides just being cute or funny.  That has helped me to be a bit more concise.

I think the biggest thing that affects the length of my stories is the amount of time they cover.  Broken and BMS (350 chapters together) took place over a period of about five years.  SAMS and Curtain Call (80-90 chapters) both covered about a year.  AHTIM (50 chapters) covered about a month.  Bethlehem (22 chapters) covered about a week, and Heroic Measures (10 chapters) covered a few days.  A lot can happen in a few days, but generally, the longer the time period, the more events there are to write about.


I didn't! That does sound interesting! I love stuff like that, but I also like just believing that mermaids could be a possibility. The Smithsonian channel is the one I like watching those little documentaries from the most.

All those legend type things are really fun, because it's fascinating, but also shared cultural history. I'm working on little scene now that talks about the Altair and Vega legend and including it was a happy accident because of one of those "seemed like filler" things I glossed over before, but now it feels like it could be some fun foreshadowing for what's to come.

I bet you would like it.  I looked for it on YouTube, but I only found short clips.  It's probably on Discovery+ if it's streaming anywhere.  It introduced me to the aquatic ape theory, which is a theory (considered pseudoscience) that during our evolution, a group of human ancestors adapted to living in water instead of on land.  That's how the existence of mermaids was explained.  It was a neat theory, even if it's not true.  I love all the cryptozoology stuff.  I know we already talked about the Loch Ness Monster, but I would love for Bigfoot to be real too.
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~Julie

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nicksgal

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Re: 2 Writing 2 Thread
« Reply #467 on: February 20, 2021, 10:53:44 PM »

Do you have a certain limit you like to cap them at?  Like 50 chapters?

The only time I try to cap myself is if it would make the difference between ending on a nice round number or not.  Usually that's a matter of either combining shorter chapters or dividing longer chapters more than actually editing myself LOL.

Not necessarily. But my life plan is to keep each story in PBox's series around fifty chapters. We'll see what happens the closer I get to the end of this one, haha. I also split the long ones in the initial run of PBox to get to fifty when I realized that I didn't have fifty chapters, I had forty-eight. Of course, then I edited and now have six more ridiculously long chapters at the end. Oh well! This one feels like I'll be able to wrap it up nicely in fifty chapters, at least once I realized that the end of this story wasn't going to get to the actual end of the whole story. When I thought they were the same, I was panicking about how long it would be.


Broken and BMS have quite a bit of filler, which explains their length.  I went a little subplot crazy with BMS because I was worried I would get bored with the main romantic storyline LOL.  But at the same time, it was nice to have some comic relief and some cute, fluffy scenes amid all the drama, and that was how I worked the other guys into it more so it wasn't just all about Nick and Claire.

That being said, I have learned to cut back on filler and just focus on scenes that move the plot forward.  Every scene should have a purpose, besides just being cute or funny.  That has helped me to be a bit more concise.

I think the biggest thing that affects the length of my stories is the amount of time they cover.  Broken and BMS (350 chapters together) took place over a period of about five years.  SAMS and Curtain Call (80-90 chapters) both covered about a year.  AHTIM (50 chapters) covered about a month.  Bethlehem (22 chapters) covered about a week, and Heroic Measures (10 chapters) covered a few days.  A lot can happen in a few days, but generally, the longer the time period, the more events there are to write about.

You know, I think the subplots were fine, especially since you don't consider yourself a main genre romance writer. You wanted to tell their story and you wanted to make sure you finished it. It just took a little longer to get there.

Those purposeful and funny/cute scenes are money. As Team Dark, we get to say "see it's not all bad here, have a cookie." And then it continues to be "all bad here" afterward, sometimes in the same chapter. I'm looking at you Frick&Frack Piggyback!

I think time does play a big part in length! I would say PBox is about the same as AHTIM, a month maybe two, I just never wrote down every waking minute of it. The amount of time the characters spend walking during that time is abysmal (for them); luckily for the reader, I did not expand on it except in snippets where they made sense. I also think there's a difference in days for a Heroic Measures or a Bethlehem versus typical days. No one wants to read a ten chapter story about what I did the past few days, for instance, lmao.


I bet you would like it.  I looked for it on YouTube, but I only found short clips.  It's probably on Discovery+ if it's streaming anywhere.  It introduced me to the aquatic ape theory, which is a theory (considered pseudoscience) that during our evolution, a group of human ancestors adapted to living in water instead of on land.  That's how the existence of mermaids was explained.  It was a neat theory, even if it's not true.  I love all the cryptozoology stuff.  I know we already talked about the Loch Ness Monster, but I would love for Bigfoot to be real too.

Oh, I've heard of that theory! It's really interesting. Nessie would be great, Big Foot, unicorns would be cool, some deep dark cave where dinosaurs still roam... As a member of Team Dark, I feel like I gotta throw out the Chupacabre if for nothing but the chaos.
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~*Dee*~

People think it would be fun to be a bird because you could fly. But they forget the negative side, which is the preening.

From "And Now, Deep Thoughts" by Jack Handey

RokofAges75

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Re: 2 Writing 2 Thread
« Reply #468 on: February 21, 2021, 12:50:55 AM »

Not necessarily. But my life plan is to keep each story in PBox's series around fifty chapters. We'll see what happens the closer I get to the end of this one, haha. I also split the long ones in the initial run of PBox to get to fifty when I realized that I didn't have fifty chapters, I had forty-eight. Of course, then I edited and now have six more ridiculously long chapters at the end. Oh well! This one feels like I'll be able to wrap it up nicely in fifty chapters, at least once I realized that the end of this story wasn't going to get to the actual end of the whole story. When I thought they were the same, I was panicking about how long it would be.

That makes sense to want to keep stories in the same series around the same number of chapters. 


Those purposeful and funny/cute scenes are money. As Team Dark, we get to say "see it's not all bad here, have a cookie." And then it continues to be "all bad here" afterward, sometimes in the same chapter. I'm looking at you Frick&Frack Piggyback!

Hehe!  Yeah, things can't get too light and fluffy on Team Dark without some horrible happening soon after.  You're just waiting for the other shoe to drop.


I also think there's a difference in days for a Heroic Measures or a Bethlehem versus typical days. No one wants to read a ten chapter story about what I did the past few days, for instance, lmao.

LOL!  Yes, definitely.  When the story takes place across a few days, those days are probably important, whereas when it spans several months or years, you try to capture the highlights and skip through the time in between.
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~Julie

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RokofAges75

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Re: 2 Writing 2 Thread
« Reply #469 on: February 21, 2021, 12:59:10 AM »

Has anyone else seen the new story on AO3 called "A Modest Proposal"?  Some troll tagged like every popular fandom there is and posted the text of "The Great Gatsby" in the tag box so it created a giant wall of tags that takes like a full minute to scroll past.  I clicked on the "story," and it technically does seem to contain a random reference to the various fandoms tagged.  BSB is tagged and mentioned once, which is why it shows up on their page.  Super annoying, but also kind of funny, especially considering the only character tagged is "Original Male Dog."  That cracked me up when I saw it.
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nicksgal

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Re: 2 Writing 2 Thread
« Reply #470 on: February 21, 2021, 02:16:40 PM »

That makes sense to want to keep stories in the same series around the same number of chapters.

Can't have one ridiculously long one in the middle. Then it might get turned into two movies. ;)


Hehe!  Yeah, things can't get too light and fluffy on Team Dark without some horrible happening soon after.  You're just waiting for the other shoe to drop.

I like to lull them into a false sense of security for a chapter or so. It makes it really gut wrenching.

LOL!  Yes, definitely.  When the story takes place across a few days, those days are probably important, whereas when it spans several months or years, you try to capture the highlights and skip through the time in between.

Fiction is an escape from the mundane. It's why no one ever takes a shower or uses the bathroom in literature or media unless it's plot important. I think I would even get bored of a live stream of what the Boys did all day. Maybe I would pay attention if it was "Here's what we do in the hours leading up to a concert" or "portions of creating an album." But, I'm just picturing Nick leaving a webcam on at his house and it being... really mundane.
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~*Dee*~

People think it would be fun to be a bird because you could fly. But they forget the negative side, which is the preening.

From "And Now, Deep Thoughts" by Jack Handey

nicksgal

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Re: 2 Writing 2 Thread
« Reply #471 on: February 21, 2021, 02:24:56 PM »

Has anyone else seen the new story on AO3 called "A Modest Proposal"?  Some troll tagged like every popular fandom there is and posted the text of "The Great Gatsby" in the tag box so it created a giant wall of tags that takes like a full minute to scroll past.  I clicked on the "story," and it technically does seem to contain a random reference to the various fandoms tagged.  BSB is tagged and mentioned once, which is why it shows up on their page.  Super annoying, but also kind of funny, especially considering the only character tagged is "Original Male Dog."  That cracked me up when I saw it.

And Mare thought large banners were bad! I'm dying at "Original Male Dog." I would be really upset if I was the person beneath it.

The things people will do to get noticed.
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~*Dee*~

People think it would be fun to be a bird because you could fly. But they forget the negative side, which is the preening.

From "And Now, Deep Thoughts" by Jack Handey

RokofAges75

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Re: 2 Writing 2 Thread
« Reply #472 on: February 21, 2021, 02:37:29 PM »

But, I'm just picturing Nick leaving a webcam on at his house and it being... really mundane.

LOL It would just be him making pancakes and watching YouTube with the kids like all his Instagram videos.  I love that he gives us glimpses into his life, and it's so cute watching him interact with his kids, but I would not want to watch Daddy Nick all day unless I was his lucky wife.
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~Julie

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RokofAges75

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Re: 2 Writing 2 Thread
« Reply #473 on: February 21, 2021, 02:38:30 PM »

And Mare thought large banners were bad! I'm dying at "Original Male Dog." I would be really upset if I was the person beneath it.

The things people will do to get noticed.

LOL That shit would never fly on AC.  Mare and Julilly would have deleted it right away.
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nicksgal

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Re: 2 Writing 2 Thread
« Reply #474 on: February 21, 2021, 02:53:23 PM »

LOL It would just be him making pancakes and watching YouTube with the kids like all his Instagram videos.  I love that he gives us glimpses into his life, and it's so cute watching him interact with his kids, but I would not want to watch Daddy Nick all day unless I was his lucky wife.

Don't forget the hour of playing video games and yelling at the screen. Good point, I do enjoy watching my husband do mundane things, so Lauren probably enjoys it. Or, realistically, she's like "You're home, time for some Lauren time, bye!" Which I could not blame her.

LOL That shit would never fly on AC.  Mare and Julilly would have deleted it right away.

So quickly that we would have never even seen it and all we would have is a reminder in the rules about the length of summaries!


What's our next major discussion topic? Any ideas?


Today writing-wise, I've been busy bothering my friends helping me cultivate a list of things because I figured they were too vaguely spoilery to ask here. Unless anyone does not care about my spoilers and likes making lists, haha.

How about everybody else?
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~*Dee*~

People think it would be fun to be a bird because you could fly. But they forget the negative side, which is the preening.

From "And Now, Deep Thoughts" by Jack Handey

RokofAges75

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Re: 2 Writing 2 Thread
« Reply #475 on: February 21, 2021, 03:17:39 PM »

Don't forget the hour of playing video games and yelling at the screen. Good point, I do enjoy watching my husband do mundane things, so Lauren probably enjoys it. Or, realistically, she's like "You're home, time for some Lauren time, bye!" Which I could not blame her.

LOL How could I forget his video game hour?  Yeah, he and Lauren seem to have a good balance when it comes to personal time versus parenting time.  It's nice that he lets her sleep in while he takes care of the kids in the morning, and I'm guessing she gives him the same me time later in the day.


So quickly that we would have never even seen it and all we would have is a reminder in the rules about the length of summaries!

LOL exactly!


What's our next major discussion topic? Any ideas?

Today writing-wise, I've been busy bothering my friends helping me cultivate a list of things because I figured they were too vaguely spoilery to ask here. Unless anyone does not care about my spoilers and likes making lists, haha.

How about everybody else?

Are they spoilers for PNecklace or a future story?

I've been a little more productive today, which is usually the case on Sundays compared to Saturdays.  Chapter 5 is over 1000 words now.  I got past the descriptive part at the beginning to a part with more dialogue; I feel like dialogue always goes faster.

Here's a question for those of us on Team Dark.  Do you ever worry that what you're writing is too dark or depressing?  If so, what do you do about it?  Do you just keep writing what you planned or try to lighten it up somehow?  I was talking to Tracy last night about her new story, and she said she was worried a scene she was considering writing would be too sad.  My story is also a huge downer, so this seems like a relevant topic right now.

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nicksgal

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Re: 2 Writing 2 Thread
« Reply #476 on: February 21, 2021, 06:25:04 PM »

LOL How could I forget his video game hour?  Yeah, he and Lauren seem to have a good balance when it comes to personal time versus parenting time.  It's nice that he lets her sleep in while he takes care of the kids in the morning, and I'm guessing she gives him the same me time later in the day.

That's the dream! Especially the sleeping in time. I'm trying to be a better morning person in preparation, but it's just not happening.

Are they spoilers for PNecklace or a future story?

PBox/PNecklace/etcetera


I've been a little more productive today, which is usually the case on Sundays compared to Saturdays.  Chapter 5 is over 1000 words now.  I got past the descriptive part at the beginning to a part with more dialogue; I feel like dialogue always goes faster.

I think so too. I think dialogue is more fun is probably why, since it's characters interacting together and not just "There was a tree, but it was a fundamentally important tree and that's why I'm telling you about it."


Here's a question for those of us on Team Dark.  Do you ever worry that what you're writing is too dark or depressing?  If so, what do you do about it?  Do you just keep writing what you planned or try to lighten it up somehow?  I was talking to Tracy last night about her new story, and she said she was worried a scene she was considering writing would be too sad.  My story is also a huge downer, so this seems like a relevant topic right now.

In addition to being a card carrying member of Team Dark, I am also Team Story. If what the story needs is something really dark or depressing and I have decided that I am okay telling that dark or depressing thing, then I will carry on. So I guess that's the first question, are y'all okay telling whatever this dark, depressing, or sad thing will be? If the answer is no, then you have the tough decision of coming up with a way to lighten it up, finding an alternative, or scrapping. If the answer is yes, then you have some options.

First, consider whether your readership is aware that you trend toward Team Dark. If they are aware, then you're probably fine to keep going as planned since it wouldn't be out of left field for you. If they're not and this is your first venture into Team Dark (welcome, it's fun here), I'd try to find a way to ease them into it as you're writing so that they know that in the story you're sharing now, they should expect some dark moments.

I also think it's important to know your lines in general. Do you have anything that's too dark for you? Does this upcoming thing fall over that line? I've mentioned I don't like depicting the death of children in the narrative. So I automatically know that if that's going to happen in a story (or a backstory), I have to either find some other way to say it happened, summarize, find a way around it, or come up with something different.

If you're on the fence... I always start by making lists. I'm not much of an outliner, as I've mentioned, but I love random lists of crud. My list would include my initial idea that may or may not be too dark/depressing/sad/whatever, reasons why I feel it might be that way, and then alternate ways I could either lighten it up or show the same type of thing in a different way entirely that still leads to my desired aftermath. I find it's always important to consider what's coming after the too dark thing. Does the too dark thing need to happen for those things to happen or to solidify something about the character? Or does it just seem like a good way to convey *gestures vaguely* some thing that moves the story along? There's lots of different ways to convey things.

Character deaths are fun, so let's use that as an example. What's the too dark line for a character death? A result of illness? Some rogue accident? Murder? Grisly murder? Self-sacrifice for another character? Suicide? Why does that character need to die? Is there an alternative to death for the same thing to be conveyed in story? What do the other characters do after the death? Is that the important part of the story? How do they grow, change, or make decisions because of it? Is the character death what kicks off the plot? Can the plot work without a death? And so on and so forth...

I could come up with more questions, but I only spent a short time thinking about it and obviously don't know exact details of your too dark/depressing/sad things. But in my experience pausing to consider something means you have some more questions to ask yourself before you start writing that portion. And since you're the author, you should have all the answers when you're presenting a piece of written work. Just my two cents! :)
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~*Dee*~

People think it would be fun to be a bird because you could fly. But they forget the negative side, which is the preening.

From "And Now, Deep Thoughts" by Jack Handey

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Re: 2 Writing 2 Thread
« Reply #477 on: February 21, 2021, 09:03:42 PM »

I don't really have a line per se. I've covered death and suicide in my stories. Just about everything... I guess my line would be killing children too. Other than that nothing is off limits. I don't think I've ever killed a BSB in one of my stories except on the round Robin for Nick.

I had to edit this because I did kill off people in my story Take Me Home. I won't say who In case anyone decides to read because hello spoilers.
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nicksgal

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Re: 2 Writing 2 Thread
« Reply #478 on: February 21, 2021, 09:08:15 PM »

I don't really have a line per se. I've covered death and suicide in my stories. Just about everything... I guess my line would be killing children too. Other than that nothing is off limits. I don't think I've ever killed a BSB in one of my stories except on the round Robin for Nick.

I had to edit this because I did kill off people in my story Take Me Home. I won't say who In case anyone decides to read because hello spoilers.

As long as you know what your line is, that's what's important. I was just trying to come up with examples.

Killing of the Boys is a fun adventure. I think anyone who says they're part of Team Dark has to do it at least once in a serious story. Unless that's your line!
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~*Dee*~

People think it would be fun to be a bird because you could fly. But they forget the negative side, which is the preening.

From "And Now, Deep Thoughts" by Jack Handey

RokofAges75

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Re: 2 Writing 2 Thread
« Reply #479 on: February 21, 2021, 09:24:44 PM »

In addition to being a card carrying member of Team Dark, I am also Team Story. If what the story needs is something really dark or depressing and I have decided that I am okay telling that dark or depressing thing, then I will carry on. So I guess that's the first question, are y'all okay telling whatever this dark, depressing, or sad thing will be? If the answer is no, then you have the tough decision of coming up with a way to lighten it up, finding an alternative, or scrapping. If the answer is yes, then you have some options.

First, consider whether your readership is aware that you trend toward Team Dark. If they are aware, then you're probably fine to keep going as planned since it wouldn't be out of left field for you. If they're not and this is your first venture into Team Dark (welcome, it's fun here), I'd try to find a way to ease them into it as you're writing so that they know that in the story you're sharing now, they should expect some dark moments.

I also think it's important to know your lines in general. Do you have anything that's too dark for you? Does this upcoming thing fall over that line? I've mentioned I don't like depicting the death of children in the narrative. So I automatically know that if that's going to happen in a story (or a backstory), I have to either find some other way to say it happened, summarize, find a way around it, or come up with something different.

If you're on the fence... I always start by making lists. I'm not much of an outliner, as I've mentioned, but I love random lists of crud. My list would include my initial idea that may or may not be too dark/depressing/sad/whatever, reasons why I feel it might be that way, and then alternate ways I could either lighten it up or show the same type of thing in a different way entirely that still leads to my desired aftermath. I find it's always important to consider what's coming after the too dark thing. Does the too dark thing need to happen for those things to happen or to solidify something about the character? Or does it just seem like a good way to convey *gestures vaguely* some thing that moves the story along? There's lots of different ways to convey things.

Character deaths are fun, so let's use that as an example. What's the too dark line for a character death? A result of illness? Some rogue accident? Murder? Grisly murder? Self-sacrifice for another character? Suicide? Why does that character need to die? Is there an alternative to death for the same thing to be conveyed in story? What do the other characters do after the death? Is that the important part of the story? How do they grow, change, or make decisions because of it? Is the character death what kicks off the plot? Can the plot work without a death? And so on and so forth...

I could come up with more questions, but I only spent a short time thinking about it and obviously don't know exact details of your too dark/depressing/sad things. But in my experience pausing to consider something means you have some more questions to ask yourself before you start writing that portion. And since you're the author, you should have all the answers when you're presenting a piece of written work. Just my two cents! :)

Wow, good answer!  I agree, it should come down to what makes the most sense for the story.  Although random tragedies are an unfortunate part of real life, I'm not big on things being totally random in a serious story.  Going along with the character death example, if you're going to kill a character, you should have a good reason for doing it.  Maybe the death happens because of decisions the character made, or maybe it's just the natural result of the circumstances said character was thrown into.  Or, if it happens in the beginning or middle of the story, maybe the death is meant to serve as motivation for other characters' actions.  In any case, it should serve a purpose, whether that's to inspire action or bring the story to its logical conclusion.  When I kill characters, I always have a reason besides wanting to make readers cry, and it feels like the right thing to do, even if it's depressing.  If it doesn't feel right for the story, I don't do it.

I've always been a member of Team Dark, and my readers know it, but even I have written disclaimers for stories or chapters that I feel are particularly dark.  Nothing specific enough to be a spoiler, usually just a general warning that things are going to get heavy.  Unless it's a story like Bethlehem where the twists and cliffhangers were kinda what I was going for, in which case, read at your own risk!  But Bethlehem was actually pretty light compared to some of the other stories I've written in recent years, so it never even occurred to me to warn anyone about that one.  I'm more likely to give a warning when my toes are on a line I haven't crossed before and I personally feel uncomfortable with what I'm writing.  But again, I think anyone who has read enough of my stories should not be too shocked by what I write at this point LOL.

In my current situation, both new stories I've started begin with something really bad happening that sets the events of the story in motion.  There may have been other options, but none that worked as well or had the same impact as what I ultimately went with.  The one I was working on this weekend is super depressing in the beginning, but will become more uplifting as it goes on... to the point that, as I realized today, I don't even know yet what the climax of the story will be.  I know how it will end, but the point when the problem is at its worst and about to be resolved seems like it will come too early in the story to be considered a climax.  So that's something I need to think more about, or maybe I will just keep writing what I do have planned and see where my characters take it from there.  That almost makes me feel like a plantser LOL.
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~Julie

"Sometimes writers and sociopaths are hard to tell apart." -J.K. Rowling
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