Fic Talk > General Discussion
Even newer questions to ponder
Rose:
--- Quote from: RokofAges75 on February 06, 2019, 07:41:06 PM ---The family thing is the best way I could think of to describe that unconditional love. It's different because I don't really KNOW them that way, even though I've met them, but at the same time, they've been such a big part of my life for so long... I don't have many, if any, genuine, close friendships that have lasted as long as I've been a BSB fan. There's a dedication and a loyalty there that I can't just shut off. This is the only fandom I've ever been this devoted to, longterm. Most of the other things I consider myself a huge fan of are fictional stuff, like Harry Potter and The Walking Dead. It's different when it involves real people. I'm like you when it comes to other bands; I like a lot of different types of music, and so there are many bands and artists I enjoy, but I don't necessarily care about most of them as people - I just like their music.
This whole #MeToo movement has been weird to witness. On one hand, I do think people like Kevin Spacey and Bill Cosby, who have apparently been abusing others for a long time, should have to own up to their actions and face the consequences. It disgusts me to hear all these horrifying details come out about someone like Bill Cosby, who always seemed like a good guy. It just goes to show how well some of these celebrities hide their true character underneath a charming public persona. And who knows, that could be true about Nick, too. But I was never a fan of Bill Cosby the way I am of Nick, and that makes it different. It also seems like once the movement took off, it became trendy for women to accuse men of sexual abuse, and then it became a witch hunt. I watched the same thing happen to Chris Hardwick, who hosts Talking Dead, when he was accused of abuse by an ex-girlfriend. It looked like he might get fired from his show, but AMC ended up supporting him after they investigated it. I believe that, like Nick, he's also a good guy whose name was dragged through the mud by someone trying to take advantage of him because it seemed like the trendy thing to do. False accusations only hurt real victims. Women do lie sometimes, as was the case with your friend, and that's why I don't buy into the whole notion that women should blindly support other women just because they are women. No.
Everyone is entitled to their opinion, and that's why I finally brought it up here. I haven't said too much about the allegations because I have friends in the fandom who totally disagree with me on this issue, but hopefully by now it's been long enough that we can talk about it without anyone getting their feelings hurt. I've seen friendships ruined on Twitter over this, and I hate to see that. It's also sad to see people struggling with their fandom over something that allegedly happened so long ago.
--- End quote ---
I'm honestly glad you have. It's nice having a real discussion on this. On TDS that's still impossible because every time people tried it devolved into insults and name calling. I fully support the idea of hearing women. I do feel that in that aspect, it's overdo. People like Cosby and Spacey needed to be shown for the people they truly were. I do think the movement turned into a witch hunt. George Takei is another example. He was accused and later it came out that his accuser lied. There's still people who don't believe that though. And people who lie about something so serious really do deserve karma to come back on them. False accusations follow forever, and it makes it impossible to simply "believe women" based on their word. There's a lot of reasons I don't believe Melissa, my feelings on Nick aside. I find the most frustrating thing is that because I don't agree with believing blindly, is I'm seen by many as a blind fangirl. Or a rapist apologist. I've had to block a lot of people in the past year due to the heat I got for my opinion.
The thing is, I could stand up right now and accuse someone just because. I could say it happened years ago and that's why there's no proof. I could get friends to say I told them years ago. And because of that, by no means should anyone just believe me because I'm female.
If someday Nick confessed he did it, or some irrefutable proof came out? I'd be the first to admit I was wrong.
Rose:
--- Quote from: mare on February 07, 2019, 05:28:06 AM ---I don’t want to get my hopes up either, but I feel like this time around, there’s a different vibe surrounding them. All the times they have been nominated prior to this, they weren’t taken very seriously by their peers. This time around, I feel like they’ve finally gotten respect from their fellow peers in the industry and that really does make all The difference. Now whether they actually win this one I’m not sure, but I wouldn’t be surprised if this album was up for several of them next year. I mean maybe it’s wishful thinking but it’s got all the earmarks of an album that won’t be ignored.
--- End quote ---
mare:
--- Quote from: RokofAges75 on February 06, 2019, 07:41:06 PM ---The family thing is the best way I could think of to describe that unconditional love. It's different because I don't really KNOW them that way, even though I've met them, but at the same time, they've been such a big part of my life for so long... I don't have many, if any, genuine, close friendships that have lasted as long as I've been a BSB fan. There's a dedication and a loyalty there that I can't just shut off. This is the only fandom I've ever been this devoted to, longterm. Most of the other things I consider myself a huge fan of are fictional stuff, like Harry Potter and The Walking Dead. It's different when it involves real people. I'm like you when it comes to other bands; I like a lot of different types of music, and so there are many bands and artists I enjoy, but I don't necessarily care about most of them as people - I just like their music.
This whole #MeToo movement has been weird to witness. On one hand, I do think people like Kevin Spacey and Bill Cosby, who have apparently been abusing others for a long time, should have to own up to their actions and face the consequences. It disgusts me to hear all these horrifying details come out about someone like Bill Cosby, who always seemed like a good guy. It just goes to show how well some of these celebrities hide their true character underneath a charming public persona. And who knows, that could be true about Nick, too. But I was never a fan of Bill Cosby the way I am of Nick, and that makes it different. It also seems like once the movement took off, it became trendy for women to accuse men of sexual abuse, and then it became a witch hunt. I watched the same thing happen to Chris Hardwick, who hosts Talking Dead, when he was accused of abuse by an ex-girlfriend. It looked like he might get fired from his show, but AMC ended up supporting him after they investigated it. I believe that, like Nick, he's also a good guy whose name was dragged through the mud by someone trying to take advantage of him because it seemed like the trendy thing to do. False accusations only hurt real victims. Women do lie sometimes, as was the case with your friend, and that's why I don't buy into the whole notion that women should blindly support other women just because they are women. No.
Everyone is entitled to their opinion, and that's why I finally brought it up here. I haven't said too much about the allegations because I have friends in the fandom who totally disagree with me on this issue, but hopefully by now it's been long enough that we can talk about it without anyone getting their feelings hurt. I've seen friendships ruined on Twitter over this, and I hate to see that. It's also sad to see people struggling with their fandom over something that allegedly happened so long ago.
--- End quote ---
I think the metoo movement is long over due, but yes, I do feel like for every five real claims there is probably one false one. I think it’s a mistake to automatically just assume the victim is not lying just as I think it’s a mistake to automatically assume the victim is lying. Unless people admit to doing wrong, it’s always going to be a he said she said. At that point we all make our own judgement a and move on from there. I do tend do believe the victim if a whole slew of victims come out and admit the same thing happened to them like Cosby and Weinstein. Otherwise I try to hold out judgement until I hear a definitive ounce of proof one way or the other. That’s just how I feel.
I will never fault anyone for having feelings opposite mine. Whether I strongly disagree or not. I think that’s why people can’t handle these kinds of talks. People get so defensive when others don’t agree with what’s being said. I have seen, especially on TDS when discussing touchy topics, people just assume they aren’t being understood and whoever thinks differently is just stupid for thinking that way.
Believing Melissa does not make you a bad fan.
Believing Nick does not make you a rape apologist.
Like I said up there somewhere, believe whatever you want but for the love of God...don’t try to change people’s minds. Just move on and accept that at the end of the day, the truth usually comes out.
RokofAges75:
--- Quote from: mare on February 07, 2019, 03:04:23 AM ---Hey 2 of my college friends are also up for song of the year at the Oscars so we don’t want Gaga to win that one either! Just sayin’ lol
When a Cowboy Trades His Spurs for Wings from the Ballad of Buster Scruggs. Gillian Welch and Dave Rawlings
--- End quote ---
RokofAges75:
--- Quote from: mare on February 07, 2019, 04:15:33 PM ---I think the metoo movement is long over due, but yes, I do feel like for every five real claims there is probably one false one. I think it’s a mistake to automatically just assume the victim is not lying just as I think it’s a mistake to automatically assume the victim is lying. Unless people admit to doing wrong, it’s always going to be a he said she said. At that point we all make our own judgement a and move on from there. I do tend do believe the victim if a whole slew of victims come out and admit the same thing happened to them like Cosby and Weinstein. Otherwise I try to hold out judgement until I hear a definitive ounce of proof one way or the other. That’s just how I feel.
I will never fault anyone for having feelings opposite mine. Whether I strongly disagree or not. I think that’s why people can’t handle these kinds of talks. People get so defensive when others don’t agree with what’s being said. I have seen, especially on TDS when discussing touchy topics, people just assume they aren’t being understood and whoever thinks differently is just stupid for thinking that way.
Believing Melissa does not make you a bad fan.
Believing Nick does not make you a rape apologist.
Like I said up there somewhere, believe whatever you want but for the love of God...don’t try to change people’s minds. Just move on and accept that at the end of the day, the truth usually comes out.
--- End quote ---
Totally agree! It's absolutely a case of he said/she said, and none of us will ever know the truth. I think it's very possible that Melissa and Nick have both told their "truth" and just remember things differently. Nick never denied that they hooked up, but he may have genuinely thought it was consensual when she's now saying it wasn't. For me, there just isn't enough evidence in her favor to turn me against him.
I can only imagine the threads on TDS. This is why I like our little group here LOL. We've always been able to debate rationally and respectfully.
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