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[RokofAges75]

I also ended up spitting this out onto the paper during that writing session: “If I don’t have you, all those promises don’t mean anything!”

Did I accidentally Backstreet and lean into it or did my brain purposefully put the words in that order to intentionally Backstreet?  I know I accidentally Hamilton sometimes, but in a BSB fanfic it's less clear to me because there are definitely times I do it on purpose (like the thing Nick bugged me about this morning or every Incomplete reference in PBox), but I've also found a few while editing where I've thought, "Haha, BSB. I don't think I meant to do that?"

LOL You probably can't help it at this point.  After so many years of listening to BSB, the lyrics are just engrained in our brains.

[RokofAges75]

Do you all always know the exact end before you start writing or is it more vague ideas? If you write in order, what do you do when monumental things like that pop up? If you don't always write things in order, would you drop everything and write an end before you've finished a middle?

I don't usually know the exact last line or anything, but I rarely start a story without having some idea of how it will end, and I usually envision what the last scene will be well before I get there.  I'm about half a chapter away from the last chapter of Bethlehem, and I've known for a while what that last chapter will look like.  I've imagined it in my head and even written down a couple of good lines of dialogue I want to include.  That's usually as far as I get with writing ahead; if I think of a really good line, I'll write it in my outline, but I don't write whole scenes ahead of time.

What has been harder for me, at least with this story, is the stuff right before the ending.  I'm in that "falling action" section of the story arc now, where the exciting climax is over, but I still have a lot of loose ends to tie up before I can get to that last scene.  I'm trying to be concise without resorting to a lot of summarizing and time skipping.  I think I've got it figured out now, but I definitely spent a couple weeks going, "Okay... so I got through plot Point A, B, and C.  Now how am I going to get to Point D?"

Here's another fun writing question for today:

What's something small about writing that you love when it happens?

Mine is word choice. That moment when you are carefully choosing your words and you stumble upon a place where you get to use a word with many layered (and often contradictory) definitions and they all fit together beautifully in a nuanced way in that portion of the narrative. It happened twice to me today: attention and cleave. I was very excited.

Carry on with your Saturday writing, all!

I agree about word choice!  I probably spend too much time on that when I should just be trying to write a first draft, and it definitely slows me down - but I love when I read it back over later and realize I have a beautiful passage that doesn't need editing.

"Cleave" is a great word!

I love when I think of something funny to write that makes me laugh, especially when it's comic relief in an otherwise dramatic story.  For example, I often sing the word "incomplete" Nick-style when I see it ("In-com-puh-lee-ete!" all drawn out and dramatic), and I just wrote a character doing that in my chapter, which made me smile and also helped me transition from one part of the scene to the next.

I also love ending on a nice, round chapter number.  I'm on Chapter 20 now, and since I should only have one more to go, I'm planning to make the last chapter an epilogue instead of Chapter 21 just so I can make the last numbered chapter a multiple of ten.  It will work well as an epilogue anyway because there will be a little time jump, but it's also perfect that a story set in 2020 would have 20 numbered chapters.  I have a weird OCD thing with numbers; it would bug me to end a story on Chapter 21.  This is why BMS had both an epilogue and a "post-epilogue," which I came up with to avoid having to have a Chapter 201.

[nicksgal]

I watch a lot of reruns of The Monsters Inside Me on Animal Planet LOL.  I love me some flesh-eating bacteria!

I figured it was something like that! That stuff is so fascinating, but I also hate knowing that my eyebrows are full of microbes, for instance.

The ice cream cones were probably full of gluten - oh noes!!  Now it's gonna give him explosive diarrhea, and Brian's gonna be stuck in the back of the van with him and no bathroom.  Oh noes!!!  Brian may be the one who needs comforting after that, haha.

Oh noes!!! Gluten!!! They're both going to need comfort after explosive diarrhea in a van and no bathroom. Oh noes! And Nick would just eat another ice cream... Time for the crazed fans to kidnap more Boys or for one of them to get really good at kicking open doors. Man, if only Kevin got kidnapped too, they would be all set!

Thanks!  My little break lasted longer than I intended, but I did finish the first scene of Chapter 20, which was my goal for today.  I hope you were productive before picking up hubby!

Yay, proud of you! I got through the rest of the chapter I edited yesterday, and part of today's chapter. Then Nick was being picky, so driving to the airport was a good break. Then I finished up to the point where I'd put a comment on part of the chapter that says "Would Nick notice and understand this conversation if he's already in his untamed demonic state?" And now I'm tired, so tomorrow, I guess. But there's only 1.5-2 pages left in the chapter to edit, so it's going alright! I also have my next four chapters' "describe your writing plan/goals in five words or less" planned out, haha. Hopefully tomorrow is very productive!

I didn't want to forget to respond to the ice cream story tomorrow since there's a new page in this thread now. Night!

[nicksgal]

LOL You probably can't help it at this point.  After so many years of listening to BSB, the lyrics are just engrained in our brains.

That's probably it, our brains are just going "Yeah, that sounds right, great word choice!"

I guess we shouldn't worry until we think something like "Does his friends get all your time?" sounds right.

[RokofAges75]

That's probably it, our brains are just going "Yeah, that sounds right, great word choice!"

I guess we shouldn't worry until we think something like "Does his friends get all your time?" sounds right.

LOL!  Ahh, cringe!

[nicksgal]

I don't usually know the exact last line or anything, but I rarely start a story without having some idea of how it will end, and I usually envision what the last scene will be well before I get there.  I'm about half a chapter away from the last chapter of Bethlehem, and I've known for a while what that last chapter will look like.  I've imagined it in my head and even written down a couple of good lines of dialogue I want to include.  That's usually as far as I get with writing ahead; if I think of a really good line, I'll write it in my outline, but I don't write whole scenes ahead of time.

What has been harder for me, at least with this story, is the stuff right before the ending.  I'm in that "falling action" section of the story arc now, where the exciting climax is over, but I still have a lot of loose ends to tie up before I can get to that last scene.  I'm trying to be concise without resorting to a lot of summarizing and time skipping.  I think I've got it figured out now, but I definitely spent a couple weeks going, "Okay... so I got through plot Point A, B, and C.  Now how am I going to get to Point D?"

I agree, it's tough to start a story if you're not even vaguely sure what the end will be. The middle can be all squiggly and wibbly-wobbly, but if an idea doesn't have a pretty clear beginning and a semblance of an end, it's just an idea and not a story at that point, for me anyway. I don't think I've ever known a last line when I started, but I applaud people who do because that is an impressively clear vision.

Most of my "interesting snippets" start out with just the dialogue. No dialogue tags, very few actions, no indication of who said what, just some lines of dialogue. To me, everyone has a pretty clear way of speaking, so I always know who's who when I go back to it.

Plot point "D" is the worst. I hate when you have one that you haven't tied up, but it's not a clear sequel hook or anything like that, so you get to the point where you start worrying about how to tie it up, and it's really stressful. I'm glad you figured it out.

I agree about word choice!  I probably spend too much time on that when I should just be trying to write a first draft, and it definitely slows me down - but I love when I read it back over later and realize I have a beautiful passage that doesn't need editing.

"Cleave" is a great word!

Same. But I often find that having the right word can tie whatever I'm trying to say together and make the next part much easier to write, plus, like you said, little to no editing if it hits exactly right. Yesterday when I stumbled upon "cleave" (a fantastic word for sure), I was meandering along about "cuts," "hopes," "separation," "togetherness," and then felt frustrated because I knew there was a word that could talk about all of that, but none of those were it. And then it was just an a-ha moment. Absolutely pleased.

I love when I think of something funny to write that makes me laugh, especially when it's comic relief in an otherwise dramatic story.  For example, I often sing the word "incomplete" Nick-style when I see it ("In-com-puh-lee-ete!" all drawn out and dramatic), and I just wrote a character doing that in my chapter, which made me smile and also helped me transition from one part of the scene to the next.

I love when a part of a story makes me laugh or tear up a little. I always wonder if people reading have those same moments at those same parts or not, but I will always include something that makes me laugh because it brings me joy many times over.

Not writing related, but I love every time Nick dramatically draws out words to the point that the syllables kind of slur. Not in-com-puh-lee-ete necessarily, but I've often thought things like "I'm positive there's not a "v" in that word, Nick," but I love it every time.

I also love ending on a nice, round chapter number.  I'm on Chapter 20 now, and since I should only have one more to go, I'm planning to make the last chapter an epilogue instead of Chapter 21 just so I can make the last numbered chapter a multiple of ten.  It will work well as an epilogue anyway because there will be a little time jump, but it's also perfect that a story set in 2020 would have 20 numbered chapters.  I have a weird OCD thing with numbers; it would bug me to end a story on Chapter 21.  This is why BMS had both an epilogue and a "post-epilogue," which I came up with to avoid having to have a Chapter 201.

I love ending on nice round chapters numbers, unless it's a one shot that only needs the one chapter, of course. But those are nice because they just are. I haven't gone to the point of having an epilogue and a "post-epilogue" (haha, the aversion to 201 chapters), but I will actively try to wrap things up or split up chapters a certain way so that there is a nice round number. 15-20 would be good for a shorter one for me. PBox et al. I just like that 50. It's nice, clean, and feels epic without being massive. I hate that I made an awards chapter and it's 51, but these things happen. Also that I left my summary up from my six month hiatus forever and so every chapter after it had the little number AC puts on them, then my "Chapter x: The X-ening" title, but the numbers were off. I fixed that right away when I started editing.

I name all my chapter titles (like a little cryptic summary) and somewhere around the end of PBox, I started using only one or two words to name them. There's a few times in PNecklace where I went with multiple words because that's what fit, but I love when the one word just hits right or when two chapters kind of go together and I can use similar or opposite words to title them for juxtaposition. It's another tiny thing that makes me smile as I write, seeing the chapter titles in the little "quick outline" on the side of the document once I name them.

[nicksgal]

LOL!  Ahh, cringe!

Haha, I knew that would make you cringe. I know they've changed it for the concerts, but it definitely sounds wrong if I sing "do" instead of "does" even though I know "do" is grammatically correct.

[RokofAges75]

I hate that I made an awards chapter and it's 51, but these things happen. Also that I left my summary up from my six month hiatus forever and so every chapter after it had the little number AC puts on them, then my "Chapter x: The X-ening" title, but the numbers were off. I fixed that right away when I started editing.

I name all my chapter titles (like a little cryptic summary) and somewhere around the end of PBox, I started using only one or two words to name them. There's a few times in PNecklace where I went with multiple words because that's what fit, but I love when the one word just hits right or when two chapters kind of go together and I can use similar or opposite words to title them for juxtaposition. It's another tiny thing that makes me smile as I write, seeing the chapter titles in the little "quick outline" on the side of the document once I name them.

Yes to all of this!  The chapter numbering thing on AC and AO3 bothers me too.  I've gotten away from doing prologues because then it throws the numbering off for the whole story.

I agree about the outlines in Google Docs too - so satisfying!  It also makes it super easy to jump between chapters when I need to.

I very rarely title my chapters because I usually agonize over story titles so much in the first place, that just seems like it would cause me unnecessary strife and end up wasting too much of my time.  But I do admire authors who can come up with great titles for all their chapters.  Do you ever have a hard time coming up with them, or do they usually come easily to you?

Haha, I knew that would make you cringe. I know they've changed it for the concerts, but it definitely sounds wrong if I sing "do" instead of "does" even though I know "do" is grammatically correct.

I agree; I sing the original lyrics too, poor grammar and all.  It does song "a little more better" in the context of the song.  But it would bother me to write that way in a story outside of them singing those lyrics.  Oh Backstreet Boys... messing up our grammar with your weird song lyrics LOL.

[nicksgal]

Yes to all of this!  The chapter numbering thing on AC and AO3 bothers me too.  I've gotten away from doing prologues because then it throws the numbering off for the whole story.

I agree about the outlines in Google Docs too - so satisfying!  It also makes it super easy to jump between chapters when I need to.

I very rarely title my chapters because I usually agonize over story titles so much in the first place, that just seems like it would cause me unnecessary strife and end up wasting too much of my time.  But I do admire authors who can come up with great titles for all their chapters.  Do you ever have a hard time coming up with them, or do they usually come easily to you?

I never really did prologues for this reason. Chapter four can't be listed as chapter five, it would make my eye twitch. If I had anything like a prologue, it was usually small enough to just include in chapter one.

I love that I can jump between chapters without having to scroll forever, it's perfect!

If it's a multi-word chapter title, I usually picked it either before or during writing because I knew it would fit. The ch. 31-40 section of PBox has several two word titles because the ones where each Boy gets a chance to showcase his powers against the "ghost demons" are named after what the villains do/are in the chapter (e.g., "Stone Soldier," "Vine Wielder," etcetera). I didn't do it with the NSYNC chapters because they fought a couple in the same chapter and then Nick's chapter broke the trend because I named it after Nick instead. He's so special, he gets TWO chapter names about him. The ones where the Boys are introduced also have multiple word titles with their epithets. Brian's the only one where his is slightly later than the chapter he's introduced, but that chapter does focus more on his powers. If you see a "The _____" in the table of contents, it means it's heavily focused on one of the Boys or a place, generally (e.g., "The Hidden Demon").

If it's a one word chapter title, I usually came up with it after I finished writing the chapter and a word still stood out in my mind that described the chapter. There's two with Japanese verbs for titles and those are the spell words in the story involving the box. There was a third originally, but it's changed during the edit.

I agree; I sing the original lyrics too, poor grammar and all.  It does song "a little more better" in the context of the song.  But it would bother me to write that way in a story outside of them singing those lyrics.  Oh Backstreet Boys... messing up our grammar with your weird song lyrics LOL.

That's it, it definitely sounds "a little more better" in context because that's how I memorized the song, haha. I'm glad we're on the same page, this has bothered me and I "just can't hold it back no more."

[nicksgal]

Describe what you've got going on writing-wise in five words or less, but cryptically.

"Only six chapters left, wow!"

If you read any of my author's notes near the end of PBox, similar statements were said many times. That's right, the rest of these are jokes!

[FrickingKaos]

The only writing goal I had for this weekend was to finish Chapter 39 of If I Knew Then, and I'm close to it but I'm probably going to end up finishing it tonight or tomorrow morning, I'm maybe half done with it. Depending on if Nick allows me to finish it without interruptions. So far he's been quiet because it's more of a Brian centric chapter anyway.

[nicksgal]

The only writing goal I had for this weekend was to finish Chapter 39 of If I Knew Then, and I'm close to it but I'm probably going to end up finishing it tonight or tomorrow morning, I'm maybe half done with it. Depending on if Nick allows me to finish it without interruptions. So far he's been quiet because it's more of a Brian centric chapter anyway.

I think not being in a chapter is equivalent to the knocking him out Julie suggested, haha.

[nicksgal]

I'm rewriting a part right now where Nick's pretty darn sad and sobbing (the beginning of chapter 45 for anyone familiar). I started to write that he hiccuped (which Nick seems okay with, he's not being a dick about it or anything), but the sheer act of writing "he hiccuped" is making me laugh. Like he's a cute puppy with those huge puppy eyes, just hiccuping while he sobs. And while hiccuping would be a natural response for the body, it's just offsetting the sadness for me. I just want to give him a hug, but more for the "aww, cute, you hiccuped" feeling than the "aww, you're so sad, you look like you need a hug" feeling. I don't know that this is supposed to make me laugh, so I should probably just erase it.

[FrickingKaos]

I like that lol it kinda makes me laugh too but it's like a good visual to see the type of crying he's doing.

[nicksgal]

I like that lol it kinda makes me laugh too but it's like a good visual to see the type of crying he's doing.

That's why I wrote it, because if you're sobbing and hyperventilati ng, your body will eventually go, "OMG, we gotta hiccup! Time to BREATHE!" But it just makes me laugh so much.

I think it's the same reason I laughed and wanted to hug him when he yawned once in PNecklace. I wrote that, and went "OMG, Nick's doing something mundanely normal, what?" And I realized he rarely does things like that, things that are human, but kind of vulnerable. So I gave him a reason.  And now that I'm writing this out, I'm laughing at the idea of him sneezing. He would be so upset if he was getting sick and made an audible noise about it! Haha!