Fic Talk > General Discussion
2 Writing 2 Thread
RokofAges75:
--- Quote from: nicksgal on January 30, 2021, 09:34:47 PM ---I think every story in that time was "x with a hint of romance," maybe we just all thought Nick needed another good person in his life besides the Boys. I stumbled on a post called "Dee wants to write a fluffy romance, halp" and I thought about that and went "I was surprised I wanted to write a fluffy romance?" Did I really think fluffy romances were out of my wheelhouse? Because PBox has the fluffiest little romance ever in it. Whatever that other story is obviously never got very far! Maybe because in general I'm not a huge fan of stories where the main plot is only a romance. Take Les Mis, my very favorite book. Sure Marius and Cosette have kind of a fluffy little romance going on, but there's also that whole June Rebellion thing and Valjean's conflicted terminator snail that is Javert. Also, on the "all I wrote" thing: if y'all were not excited about PBox coming back, then you must be "thrilled" that it's still all I have to talk about a decade later, haha.
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That is true about romance. Poor Nick had such bad taste in women back then, and we just wanted him to be happy, so we created fictional women for him that were way better than Paris LOL. I've always preferred romance as a subplot too.
I get having that one longterm project you keep coming back to. Although Broken/BMS is not the best thing I've ever written, I still consider it my fanfic "magnum opus" because it was such an important piece of writing for me. PBox is your magnum opus!
--- Quote from: nicksgal on January 30, 2021, 09:34:47 PM ---I think there's a difference between prettier/wittier/etcetera and prettiest/wittiest/etcetera. That's the Mary Sue line. I always like to think of Hitch with love interests/characteristics like that. I can't remember the movie star character's name off hand (Allegra? I know it was weird) but all the things she said she liked most about Albert were the things Hitch said to absolutely change. But then if you go too quirky, you might end up in "Manic Pixie Dream Girl" territory, which is also bad in its own way for a story.
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That's a good point. I looked up the Manic Pixie Dream Girl trope, which is pretty much what I thought it was. Claire was definitely a bit of an MPDG. But then again, so apparently is Jack in Titanic, Gus in The Fault in Our Stars, and any character played by Zooey Deschanel, who is one of my celebrity girl crushes, so I guess she's in good company LOL.
RokofAges75:
--- Quote from: nicksgal on January 30, 2021, 09:47:27 PM ---If it doesn't grow on you, you're doomed! I like the name Keelie too! And I have used it for a cute, ditzy cheerleader type. I do sometimes like to give characters subversive names, but it really depends on the character.
I'm pretty sure I almost named Minako "Aya" instead, again for another character I really liked. I looked it up now and saw some of the meanings in various languages. I'm assuming I actively decided not to name my fluffy love interest "amazing and wonderful" to avoid Mary Sueism.
Poor Nick, drama constantly follows him, but I always root for him (whether that's fanfic or real life)!
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Subversive names can be perfect sometimes. I remember Kelly's Not Your Average Cinderella Story, where the female lead hated her Mary Sue name Cinderella and was the complete opposite of what you'd expect a Cinderella to be. That was a good example.
Aya is a pretty name, but it does sound more Mary Sue than Minako. It's too short to be a Mary Sue name though.
nicksgal:
--- Quote from: RokofAges75 on January 30, 2021, 10:11:30 PM ---That is true about romance. Poor Nick had such bad taste in women back then, and we just wanted him to be happy, so we created fictional women for him that were way better than Paris LOL. I've always preferred romance as a subplot too.
I get having that one longterm project you keep coming back to. Although Broken/BMS is not the best thing I've ever written, I still consider it my fanfic "magnum opus" because it was such an important piece of writing for me. PBox is your magnum opus!
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Such bad taste in women! Being single would have been a better choice than Paris Hilton. Although in recent years as she's mellowed out, I've thought a couple of times "maybe she's not that bad anymore?" And then I hate myself every time because that would be another thing that young Dee (and possibly all BSB fans) would be upset to hear.
I do enjoy that it still comes up in serious conversations (and not just leg chopping conversations), even though it's been so many years. I think you really hit your stride with it, perfected your researching skills, and created this whole little world from a tiny "what if Nick had bone cancer?" I'm totally fine that PBox et al. is my magnum opus. It earned it if the characters are still popping around in my head after 15 years.
Oh! Before I forget again, speaking of leg choppage... I had a conversation yesterday about the dangers of self diagnosing on google. One of my friends was talking about how when she injured her ankle and google said it might be bone cancer (it's not). And I said, "Yeah don't self diagnose on google, but you could totally have bone cancer in your ankle." (I assume because of Broken) Then she started talking about a time she fell while ice skating and bruised her ribs and google also said it was bone cancer and she said, "I was so worried that they would have to cut out a rib, but my doctor said bone cancer just isn't that common in ribs." And the first thing I said (which got some odd looks) was "Rib choppage! Oh noes!" But I laughed so hard. Then the second thing was, "I'm sure it's way less common than bone cancer in a limb, but I have a friend who I'm sure would know the answer." And she thought I meant my BFF who is a nurse and I said, "Oh her too. I meant another friend who likes medical drama, but you're right [BFF] might be the better person to ask." I'm still not convinced, I was sure you would know the answer off hand and my BFF would probably have to look it up, haha.
--- Quote from: RokofAges75 on January 30, 2021, 10:11:30 PM ---That's a good point. I looked up the Manic Pixie Dream Girl trope, which is pretty much what I thought it was. Claire was definitely a bit of an MPDG. But then again, so apparently is Jack in Titanic, Gus in The Fault in Our Stars, and any character played by Zooey Deschanel, who is one of my celebrity girl crushes, so I guess she's in good company LOL.
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She is in good company! I'm team trope no matter what the trope it is. Tropes are tools; it's when they're in excess for anything that it gets to be a bit too much. Unfortunately, that "too muchness" usually ends up squarely on the shoulders of protagonists, love interests, and original characters in fanfics. So you want your love interest to be a MPDG? Cool. Just make sure that's not all she is, basically. I'm sure you assumed that was a general you, of course.
nicksgal:
--- Quote from: RokofAges75 on January 30, 2021, 10:17:44 PM ---Subversive names can be perfect sometimes. I remember Kelly's Not Your Average Cinderella Story, where the female lead hated her Mary Sue name Cinderella and was the complete opposite of what you'd expect a Cinderella to be. That was a good example.
Aya is a pretty name, but it does sound more Mary Sue than Minako. It's too short to be a Mary Sue name though.
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Yes, that's a great example! Plus the added lampshading, so funny. Kelly was great at those twist retells of stories.
Give a kid that Mary Sue baggage, not a character, haha. I wonder if all the "Mary Sue" characteristic s are the same or if they've changed over the years. I think there used to be general agreed upon things across fandoms and then some fandom specific ones, of course.
RokofAges75:
--- Quote from: nicksgal on January 30, 2021, 10:34:05 PM ---Oh! Before I forget again, speaking of leg choppage... I had a conversation yesterday about the dangers of self diagnosing on google. One of my friends was talking about how when she injured her ankle and google said it might be bone cancer (it's not). And I said, "Yeah don't self diagnose on google, but you could totally have bone cancer in your ankle." (I assume because of Broken) Then she started talking about a time she fell while ice skating and bruised her ribs and google also said it was bone cancer and she said, "I was so worried that they would have to cut out a rib, but my doctor said bone cancer just isn't that common in ribs." And the first thing I said (which got some odd looks) was "Rib choppage! Oh noes!" But I laughed so hard. Then the second thing was, "I'm sure it's way less common than bone cancer in a limb, but I have a friend who I'm sure would know the answer." And she thought I meant my BFF who is a nurse and I said, "Oh her too. I meant another friend who likes medical drama, but you're right [BFF] might be the better person to ask." I'm still not convinced, I was sure you would know the answer off hand and my BFF would probably have to look it up, haha.
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LOL! Your friend sounds like me. Cancer is always a possibility when you Google symptoms! I don't think bone cancer is as common in ribs as it is in limbs. I doubt it would start in the ribs, but it could probably spread there from other places. Rib choppage, oh noes! LMAO I love that you said that out loud!
--- Quote from: nicksgal on January 30, 2021, 10:34:05 PM ---She is in good company! I'm team trope no matter what the trope it is. Tropes are tools; it's when they're in excess for anything that it gets to be a bit too much. Unfortunately, that "too muchness" usually ends up squarely on the shoulders of protagonists, love interests, and original characters in fanfics. So you want your love interest to be a MPDG? Cool. Just make sure that's not all she is, basically. I'm sure you assumed that was a general you, of course.
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Yep, absolutely! I read the article about MPDG on TV Tropes, and it said it's mainly if the girl only exists to make the brooding protagonist happy and has no personal life goals herself. In Broken, Claire pretty much did just exist to support brooding Nick, but when she got promoted to main character status in BMS, she had her own goals, especially after she broke up with Nick - but that's when some of my readers stopped liking her. So maybe she was better off as a MPDG LOL.
Fanfic is a little different, though, because most readers just want to read about the Boys and don't care about original characters, especially when they're not interacting with one of the Boys. From a reader's perspective, I get it. Even in stories where I really like the original female lead, I still prefer reading scenes with a BSB in them to scenes that are just about her.
--- Quote from: nicksgal on January 30, 2021, 10:38:26 PM ---I wonder if all the "Mary Sue" characteristic s are the same or if they've changed over the years. I think there used to be general agreed upon things across fandoms and then some fandom specific ones, of course.
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I think the idea that Mary Sue is this unrealisticall y perfect female character who is adored by all the other characters is universal across fandoms, but each fandom has its own specific Mary Sue tropes. In the BSB fandom, Mary Sue often has musical talent so she can become the opening act or backup dancer or band member, whereas in fantasy fandoms, she would have unique powers and be some kind of Chosen One.
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