Fic Talk > General Discussion
The Writing Thread: Orlando Passaggio (aka The Writing Thread 3)
RokofAges75:
--- Quote from: nicksgal on April 04, 2021, 08:57:38 PM ---Just to round it out a little. If people want to write slash, people want to read it. But I also like writing True Companions, so there must be people who want to read that too.
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Yes, very true. I don't mean to knock slash; I've actually grown to appreciate slash more over the years. I just get tired of scrolling through AO3 and seeing so much of it, especially the PWP kind.
nicksgal:
--- Quote from: RokofAges75 on April 04, 2021, 08:46:11 PM ---It is a relief! Especially after getting stuck and staying like that for three years LOL. I may get stuck again, but I feel like I'm committed enough to the story at this point that I'll be able to push through it sooner the next time it happens.
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I think you will too! And I'm here to commiserate with you should it happen. Because I get being committed and getting stuck. I'm like the poster child for it, really. I'm pretty sure when PBox was featured, Mare said she picked it because it "might inspire you to update it this month." That did not happen, lol.
--- Quote from: RokofAges75 on April 04, 2021, 08:46:11 PM ---I feel like it would bother me too, but maybe I'll have to try it sometime and find out for myself. I would be most worried about maintaining continuity, trying to keep track of what has already happened and what hasn't happened yet, and that sort of thing. Does that get complicated for you?
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I think I only noticed it once and it was more in the vein of "tiny plot hole, oops!" that I forgot to write down, but had clearly always thought because I did write it and say "you know, I don't think that I actually wrote that down the first time, my bad." I've got the overall continuity down pretty well. It helps that PBox was fairly self-contained, being an "in search of MacGuffin" type story and I have two notes documents going that are basically timelines (but in the more jumbled way I tend to write things down rather than outlines) where I'll note things that have yet to happen in PNecklace or things that clearly happen in the next one.
Anything I write ahead of time, I label it very meticulously as "Book title (likely chapter range if I know it, plot point or sub-plot): description of thing that's happening." I'll make up an example since everything I have in there now is fairly spoilery to list verbatim even with character names replaced with letters. Let's say back in PBox days I got an idea for the little excerpt I posted of the Kevin talking about medicinal salves scene and wrote it, I would have labeled it as "PBox (early twenties, after Renee/NSYNC stuff; while traveling to Rubiihoppou to find AJ): Kevin has a hobby making medicinal salves and Nick thinks it smells terrible (haha), demons smell really well and all smell different." That meticulous labeling also shows you that Nick's hilarious reaction is probably why I wanted to write it down so badly, lol. Then all the scenes are put in the order they probably go in once they're actually in chapters, though I did end up moving some around in PNecklace from my initial thought of where they should go once I actually got around to writing the full chapter and have also ultimately decided to take some things I thought were interesting out after I decided it wasn't important. So it lives and breathes.
It's only getting slightly confusing now in the OF editing since I have an opportunity to bring even more things in earlier and different things that are better than the laziness of the fanfic version, like some early symbolism for the "omg they're x" stuff that was poorly done in the original fanfic/too late to majorly change now. That and I've thought "aww, I wish I could add this to the fanfic" several times, but it would create a domino effect of stuff to change and it just feels like I would be constantly changing the fanfic version, which would break my "nothing major actually changes in the fanfic edit down to the plot of each chapter" rule.
And half of my changes to the narrative right now are in my effort to demonstrate, "See this little demon that is not at all Nick Carter (*cough*), you should care about him so much and invest in his story, here is why" versus "in this story, Nick is demon! Let's continue to the part that does need an explanation for you to enjoy this story, the world building." lol
--- Quote from: RokofAges75 on April 04, 2021, 08:46:11 PM ---It always makes me laugh when it pops up on my BSB playlist. Sometimes I skip it, and other times I listen to it and crack myself up saying all the lines along with them. I'm sure I took it way too literally as a young teenybopper, but Howie was my least favorite for a while because of his stupid part in that song LOL. Howie! Your wife is not just there to cook you food! Make your own damn breakfast!
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Sometimes I go out of my way to listen to it, lol. I thought Howie was ridiculous for it, but also understood that someone who liked to cook would be an awesome person to be with, because then I could just eat it, lol. Although cooking together is more enjoyable.
Howie and Kevin were tied for me. Nick, then Brian (aka the blond/blue-eyed not Nick, lol), then AJ, then Howie and Kevin. Now it's probably either Nick and everybody else or Nick, then Howie and I could be thick as thieves, but I love all of you for the good times. It's hard to shake the Nick love even being an old married lady at this point. All my favorite songs now are the ones they all have solo bits on, where in my younger years, they were all the Nick and Brian dominated ones (which wasn't hard to do, lol).
--- Quote from: RokofAges75 on April 04, 2021, 08:46:11 PM ---Brian and AJ came off looking the best, although it's interesting that Brian talked about being attracted to a smart girl who had a good head on her shoulders and liked to go to school (teenybopper me was like, "That's me!"), yet he married an uneducated bimbo with big boobs. Nick was right for calling him out in the song LOL.
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You sound so reasonable. Teenybopper me was like "Yeah, I'll kiss you at the movies, and when we go dancing, and whenever! Name the place! I'm there!" Nick was right to call him out. He knew. Guardian angel, boom.
--- Quote from: RokofAges75 on April 04, 2021, 08:46:11 PM ---I bet Nick and Kevin both cringe at the sound of their voice in that one - Nick because he sounds so young and Kevin because he's doing that cheesy Boys II Men-style sexy deep voice. "Yes, baby... no diggity." LMFAO!
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I don't know that Nick does. That video where they're all calling out IYWITBGG (and AJ even says "It should have never been made, it should not exist"). And Nick's just like, "I don't know. We have a lot of great songs." like he didn't think it was that bad, lol. And there are points in that song where his voice is pretty cringey sounding too. Speaking of young Nick, now I have a deep desire to go listen to Tell Me That I'm Dreaming, lol!
Kevin is probably so glad to have moved on from songs with the cheesy sexy deep voice. I bet he got so tired of that. "No diggity," lmfao. Poor Kevin.
nicksgal:
--- Quote from: RokofAges75 on April 04, 2021, 09:23:17 PM ---They were ghostwritten after the first 36 books - that's how. But still, 36 books is a lot! It seems like the big series are more prevalent in books written for elementary readers, probably because of the point you made - the authors know kids who read and like one book in a series will keep coming back for more because of that familiarity, and they capitalize on that.
Series don't seem as prevalent for adult fiction. Most of the ones I've read as an adult were actually YA fiction, like Twilight and The Hunger Games.
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Did not know that! That makes so much more sense. It's like Magic Tree House. I pick them up and think, you've got to have run out of places for Jack and Annie to go by now. No? This is new? Okay. What are they doing now? lol
I think if it's a series in adult fiction, there's not a million of them, but there's more than three or four (i'm thinking GOT and Sookie Stackhouse). YA is usually like "You have three to four of these before your target audience moves on, tick tock." lol
--- Quote from: RokofAges75 on April 04, 2021, 09:23:17 PM ---FNL is so good!! I grew up in a small town that was obsessed with high school football, so I could relate to so much of it. But also, the cast is excellent, and it has one of the best pilot episodes I've ever seen. If you make it to the end of the first episode, you'll be hooked.
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I liked the movie a lot and I've heard good things, so I really keep meaning to! Is it back on Netflix now?
--- Quote from: RokofAges75 on April 04, 2021, 09:23:17 PM ---I'm the same way with The Crown. I started watching that over a year ago, and I'm only on episode 9 of the first season LOL. It's well done, but it's not a binge-worthy show for me. I have to be in the right mood for it, which apparently doesn't happen very often. Meanwhile, I caught up on all 9 seasons of The Office in a matter of months when it was on Netflix. I'm not a big sitcom person, but it's much easier to binge-watch 22-minute episodes of a comedy than 60-minute episodes of a period drama.
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Same on all of that, even The Office bit, lol. You can watch about three episodes in an hour of a sitcom, it takes much less time.
--- Quote from: RokofAges75 on April 04, 2021, 09:23:17 PM ---LOL Yep! I can't judge too much either because I've written my own weird/squicky stuff. To each their own. It just made me laugh. Gold star for originality, especially in a PWP!
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Right? lol Gives some substance to the PWP.
--- Quote from: RokofAges75 on April 04, 2021, 09:23:17 PM ---Oh absolutely, that makes sense. And you're right, PWP is the new version of visual. I guess it's because there just aren't many places to discuss BSB fanfic anymore that we don't adopt or create as many terms. And since we mainly only write about five "characters," we don't have as many cutesy couple names as other fandoms. Go figure, the only one I've ever used is "Nowie," and I don't think that's a popular pairing on AO3.
I like learning new terms, though, so keep sharing them as you come across them! I remember the first time I came across the term "hurt/comfort" years ago - I was like, "OMG... that's exactly what I like to read and write!" I never knew there was a specific name for that trope. That was way before TV Tropes existed, or at least before I discovered that site.
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We're too old to change and all have the same terminology. It's fine, lol.
There's at most, what?... 25 cutesy couple names? But we're just as likely to use them platonically as we are to use them for couples? That's why we need "slash" too, lol. I can't think of any besides Frick & Frack, ARok, and Nowie though. Kentucky Cousins? Is that one?
I like coming across new terms too, especially when it's things like that where I was like "This thing I enjoy has name? Awesome!" I can't think of any examples right now, but I do always like when I know the specific trope for whatever thing.
--- Quote from: RokofAges75 on April 04, 2021, 09:23:17 PM ---BAnon LOL. I like BCB best too. And yes, this too shall pass. I hope we can get to a place where being conservative isn't seen as a bad thing. I still love Brian and will only bash him with love. All in good fun!
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Alright, unless anyone else has objections, it sounds like Blatantly Conservative Brian (BCB for short) is our term for this, lol. I think as we get further away from the extreme right that it has been, it'll be fine. :)
--- Quote from: RokofAges75 on April 04, 2021, 09:25:33 PM ---Yes, very true. I don't mean to knock slash; I've actually grown to appreciate slash more over the years. I just get tired of scrolling through AO3 and seeing so much of it, especially the PWP kind.
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I didn't think you did. I didn't either. I get tired of scrolling through all the PWP on AO3 whether it's slash or not! It's more the PWP aspect of it than the slash aspect for me. As I said before, I'm really not that picky as long as there's a plot, lol.
RokofAges75:
--- Quote from: nicksgal on April 04, 2021, 09:43:21 PM ---I think you will too! And I'm here to commiserate with you should it happen. Because I get being committed and getting stuck. I'm like the poster child for it, really. I'm pretty sure when PBox was featured, Mare said she picked it because it "might inspire you to update it this month." That did not happen, lol.
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Aww, thanks! This forum is great for commiserating. I'm either going to hit a wall soon, or I'm going to roll right through it. I can't tell yet. I'm already almost through the first phase of the story, which I had a pretty clear vision for. I also have a lot planned for the third phase of the story, which I feel is really the heart of the whole story idea. It's the second phase I'm unsure about. That's the part I wish I could film as a brief montage set to some upbeat 80s music and move on from. It's really just the bridge between the first and third phase of the story, but I can't completely rush through it. I just don't have a lot of specific scenes planned out yet, so I need to get on that. I did take your suggestion and start a list, but it's a pretty short list so far LOL. I'm hoping when I get to the point of actually needing scenes, I'll come up with something. This is me plantsing LOL.
--- Quote from: nicksgal on April 04, 2021, 09:43:21 PM ---Anything I write ahead of time, I label it very meticulously as "Book title (likely chapter range if I know it, plot point or sub-plot): description of thing that's happening." I'll make up an example since everything I have in there now is fairly spoilery to list verbatim even with character names replaced with letters. Let's say back in PBox days I got an idea for the little excerpt I posted of the Kevin talking about medicinal salves scene and wrote it, I would have labeled it as "PBox (early twenties, after Renee/NSYNC stuff; while traveling to Rubiihoppou to find AJ): Kevin has a hobby making medicinal salves and Nick thinks it smells terrible (haha), demons smell really well and all smell different." That meticulous labeling also shows you that Nick's hilarious reaction is probably why I wanted to write it down so badly, lol. Then all the scenes are put in the order they probably go in once they're actually in chapters, though I did end up moving some around in PNecklace from my initial thought of where they should go once I actually got around to writing the full chapter and have also ultimately decided to take some things I thought were interesting out after I decided it wasn't important. So it lives and breathes.
It's only getting slightly confusing now in the OF editing since I have an opportunity to bring even more things in earlier and different things that are better than the laziness of the fanfic version, like some early symbolism for the "omg they're x" stuff that was poorly done in the original fanfic/too late to majorly change now. That and I've thought "aww, I wish I could add this to the fanfic" several times, but it would create a domino effect of stuff to change and it just feels like I would be constantly changing the fanfic version, which would break my "nothing major actually changes in the fanfic edit down to the plot of each chapter" rule.
And half of my changes to the narrative right now are in my effort to demonstrate, "See this little demon that is not at all Nick Carter (*cough*), you should care about him so much and invest in his story, here is why" versus "in this story, Nick is demon! Let's continue to the part that does need an explanation for you to enjoy this story, the world building." lol
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I almost asked you about labeling all these scenes, but I remembered you talking a while back about naming your files in Google Drive. The way you explained it here makes more sense and seems like it would help you remember what you wrote and find the right scene when you need it.
I think you're wise to save the big changes for the OF version instead of constantly editing the fanfic. Especially since the fanfic is already online. And yeah, you probably would need to focus more on character development in the OF version, since you're no longer writing about "Nick."
That seems like it would be one of the biggest differences between writing fanfic and original fic. I know in the stories where I have created original characters that play an important role, I've put a lot more time into developing them than I did the Boys, because the readers already know the Boys. It's more about orienting them to when in Backstreet time the story takes place and showing how the Boys change as a result of whatever happens in the plot.
--- Quote from: nicksgal on April 04, 2021, 09:43:21 PM ---Howie and Kevin were tied for me. Nick, then Brian (aka the blond/blue-eyed not Nick, lol), then AJ, then Howie and Kevin. Now it's probably either Nick and everybody else or Nick, then Howie and I could be thick as thieves, but I love all of you for the good times. It's hard to shake the Nick love even being an old married lady at this point. All my favorite songs now are the ones they all have solo bits on, where in my younger years, they were all the Nick and Brian dominated ones (which wasn't hard to do, lol).
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I was the same way with having a clear order of favorites in my teenybopper days, although it changed from time to time. Brian was always my favorite, and AJ was #2 for a long time. Nick was my least favorite very early on, which I think was based on a combination of wanting to go against the grain of him being everyone else's favorite and finding him annoying in their Millennium era appearances. But then Nick started to grow on me (helped by fanfic, no doubt), which left Howie and Kevin alternating between the #4 and #5 spot. I know Nick had risen to my second favorite by 2001 because my custom license plate on my first car began with BNAHK, and I put their initials in order of favorites LOL. Now I would rank them in two tiers: Brian and Nick on the top tier, Kevin, Howie, and AJ on the bottom tier. I don't have a least favorite anymore; I love them all.
--- Quote from: nicksgal on April 04, 2021, 09:43:21 PM ---I don't know that Nick does. That video where they're all calling out IYWITBGG (and AJ even says "It should have never been made, it should not exist"). And Nick's just like, "I don't know. We have a lot of great songs." like he didn't think it was that bad, lol. And there are points in that song where his voice is pretty cringey sounding too. Speaking of young Nick, now I have a deep desire to go listen to Tell Me That I'm Dreaming, lol!
Kevin is probably so glad to have moved on from songs with the cheesy sexy deep voice. I bet he got so tired of that. "No diggity," lmfao. Poor Kevin.
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I'm with Nick on that. Sure, IYWITBGG is bad, but it's far from their worst song. It's a guilty pleasure song - catchy and fun, even if it the lyrics are cringey. Boys Will Be Boys is just as bad, and I love both songs. I would take songs like that any day over She's a Dream. Tell Me That I'm Dreaming is adorable.
I wonder if Kevin realized how cheesy it was when he got roped into doing that deep voice back then, or if it actually seemed cool and sexy at the time because Boys II Men had done it. I agree; I'm sure he's glad that trend is over LOL.
RokofAges75:
--- Quote from: nicksgal on April 04, 2021, 10:00:56 PM ---Did not know that! That makes so much more sense. It's like Magic Tree House. I pick them up and think, you've got to have run out of places for Jack and Annie to go by now. No? This is new? Okay. What are they doing now? lol
I think if it's a series in adult fiction, there's not a million of them, but there's more than three or four (i'm thinking GOT and Sookie Stackhouse). YA is usually like "You have three to four of these before your target audience moves on, tick tock." lol
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Yes, I almost mentioned Magic Tree House as an example! I guess with those books, they just have to think of a historical time period or event or a scientific topic they want to focus on and develop the plot around that. All those series are so formulaic, I'm sure that helps the authors (or ghostwriters) churn them out quickly.
YA series aiming for 3-4 books to match their readers' attention span totally makes sense LOL.
--- Quote from: nicksgal on April 04, 2021, 10:00:56 PM ---I liked the movie a lot and I've heard good things, so I really keep meaning to! Is it back on Netflix now?
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The show is better than the movie, but I may be biased because I didn't see the movie until after I fell in love with the show. It used to be on Netflix, but I think it's only on Hulu right now.
--- Quote from: nicksgal on April 04, 2021, 10:00:56 PM ---There's at most, what?... 25 cutesy couple names? But we're just as likely to use them platonically as we are to use them for couples? That's why we need "slash" too, lol. I can't think of any besides Frick & Frack, ARok, and Nowie though. Kentucky Cousins? Is that one?
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There must be one for Kevin/Nick, but I'm not sure what is most commonly used. Kick? Nevin? I think Brian/Kevin would be Kentucky Cousins or KFC (Kentucky's Finest Cousins). Not sure if there is one for AJ/Kevin, AJ/Howie, AJ/Nick, Howie/Kevin, or Howie/Brian. I don't see those pairings often, if ever. Can you imagine a Howie/Brian slash? LMAO.
--- Quote from: nicksgal on April 04, 2021, 10:00:56 PM ---I get tired of scrolling through all the PWP on AO3 whether it's slash or not! It's more the PWP aspect of it than the slash aspect for me. As I said before, I'm really not that picky as long as there's a plot, lol.
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I'm with you! It's not the slash that annoys me; it's the PWP. It just so happens that most of the PWP on AO3 seems to be slash, not het. I'm fine with slash with a plot. And slash without a plot is fine too for people who prefer that. It's just not my thing.
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