Fic Talk > General Discussion
The Writing Thread: Orlando Passaggio (aka The Writing Thread 3)
RokofAges75:
--- Quote from: nicksgal on May 29, 2021, 05:14:26 PM ---Hopefully the Nick and AJ scene went well once you got back into it! Glad you were able to finish the transition scene! I keep meaning to do that with PBox and haven't because I don't remember exact dates except for a few of the chapters, lol. I think it's "I want to focus on my writing, but need a break after sloughing through this transition scene." I do stuff like that too; lately it's been editing my end of book outline. I'm impressed it only took you an hour. That's like a minute and a half per chapter. Probably easier if you do have a running record of exact dates.
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That's exactly it. It's something that feels "productive" and writing-related, but requires no thought, just repetitive clicking. I'm glad it didn't take as long as I thought it would. I started doing the same thing with Undead on Thursday and got halfway through it, so I might finish the rest of that later today. Thanks to my site, I have an archive of all of my updates dating back to the summer of 2000 when I started writing update blurbs, so those have been super helpful and kinda fun to scroll back through.
--- Quote from: nicksgal on May 29, 2021, 05:14:26 PM ---That would be a whole year for both if you posted them one after the other, yeah? That does seem like a long time when they're available on your site and here just fine. Maybe there's a space for an Author's Note at the end of Curtain Call that's something to the effect of "If you enjoy my writing and Nick cancer stories, here's another one I'm known for [link for Broken]. It also has a sequel [link for BMS]." But, then again... spoilers.
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I may eventually post them if I get bored enough after posting SAMS and AHTIM, but I would want to edit them first. I found SO MANY TYPOS when I reread them last year for my retrospective blogs.
An author's note isn't a bad idea. In some ways, I'm more okay spoiling the cancer aspect of Broken than Curtain Call because it takes so freaking long to get to it, it might be the incentive a reader needs to make it through the beginning, which reads like a bad romance. Whereas in Curtain Call, I think putting a cancer tag on it would take away from the experience of reading it and finding out the same way the main characters do.
--- Quote from: nicksgal on May 29, 2021, 05:14:26 PM ---You're right, I see what happens when you explicitly say you never do something, lol. Meanwhile, I have never underestimated your ability to write a lot quickly for a Nick cancer story. Especially in the summer, lol. Were you still updating as soon as you finished writing when you were writing Curtain Call or had you started the hoard by then?
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I hoarded with Curtain Call at first, but not as much as I do now. I know I had written the first 5 or 6 chapters before I started posting it, but that only took me about a week. From there, I pretty much posted chapters as I wrote them.
--- Quote from: nicksgal on May 29, 2021, 05:14:26 PM ---YAY!!!! We made it! It's supposed to rain a lot this weekend here, but so far just cloudy. I've been running the slippery slope of messing with the thermostat since the hubs is on work trip. I realized that I made a mistake when woke up sweating on Wednesday because I turned off the AC for an entire day, lol.
Happiest of three day weekends! I got tired on Wednesday, as is often the case post-update, and went to bed after doing some dishes. I've apparently been more tired than I thought this past week because I took a two hour nap Thursday afternoon/evening after writing "[stuff?]" on my dragging scene, then couldn't find the motivation to write and deep cleaned my kitchen and bathrooms instead, sweatily... as once again, I made the mistake of turning off the AC prior to my nap, lol. Now the first floor of our house (and upstairs bathrooms) are beautiful and I did manage to write about 118 words afterward. Yesterday I had some friends over and hurriedly wrote six words at 11:56pm to keep the streak alive, lol. Then I slept until about 10am this morning, so I must have really needed the rest (especially after staying up way too late on accident).
The first thing I did this morning was rearrange Thursday's writing and delete yesterday's hurriedly typed six words. At least I tried yesterday, lol. Then drank two coffees and got into the scene I'd started. I've gotten about 1400 words today, so it's going much better than the past couple of days. I think I just needed the school year to end and then do something different to recharge. Back in action and ready to finish this novel! I'm about 600 words from finishing this chapter and I think I'll be able to jump right into the next chapter afterward. :) I'll be a sadist once I post them with a million cliffhangers, but the next chunk of chapters really all happen one after the other, so it feels like it could be a really productive weekend if I get into the right groove with the end of this chapter.
How's everyone else doing after our quiet couple of days?
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I went from having the AC on to turning the furnace back on for a couple days to nothing. It was like 50 degrees and rainy yesterday for the last day of school... brr! Today is sunny and 60s though.
Yay for a clean house and fun with your friends! I was a little worried about you when I hadn't seen you on for a couple days, but I'm glad it was for good reasons. Sometimes you definitely need to take a break and do something different!
I cleaned up my upstairs writing room that I haven't used in months because there have been holiday decorations and boxes all over the place. Got all that stuff packed back up and put away so I can actually use that room this summer. Next up is organizing my bedroom closet, but that can wait for another day.
I wrote a little bit this morning and am close to finishing my current Nick chapter. Hopefully I'll be able to finish that tonight. It should be the last tour chapter for a while.
I'm glad your writing is going better today! Way to push through the problem spot! I hope you do have a productive weekend.
nicksgal:
--- Quote from: RokofAges75 on May 29, 2021, 05:23:33 PM ---Yep, I agree with all of this. Part of the problem is that I've locked myself into this format of alternating POVs every chapter, so while I have a lot of Kevin content to write during this period, I'm stuck trying to come up with enough Nick content to give him a chapter for every one of Kevin's. That is the downside to following a strict format like this; there's not as much flexibility as I would have if I had opted to just write in one character's POV or third person.
LOL I have actually written a couple of scenes similar to that which took place during the Millennium Tour, but alas, I don't have anything dramatic planned for this part of the tour. There was a time when I probably would have tried to come up with something just to make it more dramatic and interesting, but I guess I have grown up just a little bit.
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I think it's a trade off. Didn't you feel like you had more for Nick in the beginning? And now it's the opposite. Maybe once you get through this part, it will feel more even. I usually limit my 1st person to one POV for that reason, but I think if you can effectively get intimately into two characters heads to tell the story right, then it's more interesting. You're almost through this portion!
I believe that, because what a perfect dramatic event for the Millennium Tour! I'm glad you're not deviating from your plan to give Nick a traumatic injury that seems more interesting, but ultimately doesn't fit.
--- Quote from: RokofAges75 on May 29, 2021, 05:23:33 PM ---Good for you! It's so hard to cut a scene, but it sounds like you made the right choice. This is another case where it would be better if you were making a movie - then you could just include a few shots of them trudging across the desert set to some dramatic music and move on to the next scene.
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It is hard! But I think that sometimes it's better if we cut the things that feel unnecessary either after the fact or preemptively like I did in the beginning. Sometimes I feel like every little thing is important if I felt bothered to write it down, but it just isn't and it's a good skill to hone and recognize to tighten up the narrative.
Yes, that cinematic shorthand would help a lot in this case, lol!
--- Quote from: RokofAges75 on May 29, 2021, 05:23:33 PM ---LOL! That could be the equivalent of Bella Swan's dramatic "October. November. December" across three pages.
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One chapter just has the "f" word in all caps followed by the month, lmao!
--- Quote from: RokofAges75 on May 29, 2021, 05:23:33 PM ---I agree, those short transitions are the best!
There are a couple of things that are important to Nick's character and plot development that I'm trying to show on this tour, so I'm trying to just focus my scenes on those and summarize the rest. And yeah, they wouldn't work well as flashbacks, although that can be a good technique for some scenes/stories.
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That makes it hard, especially when you want to give him equal time, but those things don't feel like they take up equal time. In a movie, you could just frame it as a narrative "brown out." There's probably a way to do that in prose that involves less transitions, but it would probably feel really disorienting as a reader. Unless that feeling was the goal, but I'm guessing it's not.
nicksgal:
--- Quote from: RokofAges75 on May 29, 2021, 05:57:39 PM ---That's exactly it. It's something that feels "productive" and writing-related, but requires no thought, just repetitive clicking. I'm glad it didn't take as long as I thought it would. I started doing the same thing with Undead on Thursday and got halfway through it, so I might finish the rest of that later today. Thanks to my site, I have an archive of all of my updates dating back to the summer of 2000 when I started writing update blurbs, so those have been super helpful and kinda fun to scroll back through.
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You're almost ready to start posting your next backdated novel if you're getting through both of these! It's good sometimes to have something that feels productive, but requires less brain power. It must be nice to have those update blurbs with dates. I think I have four from the original posting of PBox where I know one chapter was specifically updated on 06/06/06 because I mentioned it vaguely and others that cement themselves as "this month," but who knows when in that month until the update thread board got added here. I don't have my old laptop either to have any vague idea of when I wrote those chapters either; not even sure 2005-2008 word would tell me that.
--- Quote from: RokofAges75 on May 29, 2021, 05:57:39 PM ---I may eventually post them if I get bored enough after posting SAMS and AHTIM, but I would want to edit them first. I found SO MANY TYPOS when I reread them last year for my retrospective blogs.
An author's note isn't a bad idea. In some ways, I'm more okay spoiling the cancer aspect of Broken than Curtain Call because it takes so freaking long to get to it, it might be the incentive a reader needs to make it through the beginning, which reads like a bad romance. Whereas in Curtain Call, I think putting a cancer tag on it would take away from the experience of reading it and finding out the same way the main characters do.
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I wonder why we're more prone to typos in our old works. Were we typing too fast and not looking back over it enough? Was grammar and spell check worse at catching mistakes back then? And I agree, on a repost, typos are sure something to fix.
It feels weird to call the cancer in Broken a spoiler, because it just feels like so much a part of our community and fandom narrative, but it's probably not everywhere. Especially since you said you have newer fans (or fan) reading along with MBK. It feels like it would be nice to be able to go back, read, and connect with something with the same feelings from the first time.
If you came up with the Broken idea now, what do you think you would change about the beginning? Hypothetically .
--- Quote from: RokofAges75 on May 29, 2021, 05:57:39 PM ---I hoarded with Curtain Call at first, but not as much as I do now. I know I had written the first 5 or 6 chapters before I started posting it, but that only took me about a week. From there, I pretty much posted chapters as I wrote them.
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Five or six is still a lot to hold on to for the way we used to write! I specifically remember saying I was going to keep the last chapter of PBox for a while and then decided I couldn't do it anymore. I think I got four days, lol.
--- Quote from: RokofAges75 on May 29, 2021, 05:57:39 PM ---I went from having the AC on to turning the furnace back on for a couple days to nothing. It was like 50 degrees and rainy yesterday for the last day of school... brr! Today is sunny and 60s though.
Yay for a clean house and fun with your friends! I was a little worried about you when I hadn't seen you on for a couple days, but I'm glad it was for good reasons. Sometimes you definitely need to take a break and do something different!
I cleaned up my upstairs writing room that I haven't used in months because there have been holiday decorations and boxes all over the place. Got all that stuff packed back up and put away so I can actually use that room this summer. Next up is organizing my bedroom closet, but that can wait for another day.
I wrote a little bit this morning and am close to finishing my current Nick chapter. Hopefully I'll be able to finish that tonight. It should be the last tour chapter for a while.
I'm glad your writing is going better today! Way to push through the problem spot! I hope you do have a productive weekend.
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This weather, I swear, lol! Glad it's sunny again. Although, rainy days are great for writing.
I did see your post from yesterday this morning and I told myself that no matter how writing went today, I should check in. And continue our conversation on transitions, because I still had thoughts, I just couldn't form them in brain, lol.
Glad you prepped your writing room! Sometimes I think clutter can affect how my brain works, so every now and again, I have moments of "I just need to take care of this thing no matter how long it takes." I have a little more of that I need to do this weekend, but I woke up (eventually) and felt like I had a solid point to start writing from. I have a bunch of things in our closet that I've been meaning to donate, but haven't. I need to do that this summer at some point.
Glad you're almost done! Is the exciting part next then if you've reached the end of the tour?
I should be productive again, but I also feel like I should take a shower, even though it's late, haha. I got distracted this afternoon by Nick's instagram live and his reassurance that he's investing his own money killed me. Like, sure, Nick, you invest $1,000 but if I invested $1,000 back when I was living paycheck to paycheck, it would not have gone well for me. Hypothetical $1,000 here, he did not name a specific amount. I swear, I end up on his instagram lives when I feel ho-hum about the content and his good ones are when I'm not available. Shower and then back to writing! That's my plan.
RokofAges75:
--- Quote from: nicksgal on May 29, 2021, 05:56:10 PM ---Right?! It felt so nice to write my little holiday story and then think, "Oh, I wrote this and now it's done forever. Hooray!" lol Meanwhile in novel land six months later... still trucking along, lol.
I have some guesses just based on the timing, even though I'm not totally sure. It probably started with the omnipresent feeling of both Nick and AJ on tv weekly (at the time) and my brain probably thought "This year is complicated. Remember how we used to write when things were complicated? Here's an old friend that might resonate with you in this time of 90's nostalgia as you try to process things." *enter PBox Nick* "HEL~LO! I've returned to bother-- *ahem* inspire you until you do something about it!" lol
I've definitely spent most of my free time in the past decade out doing things, like volunteering for various organizations, so it probably felt (though I never really thought about it much) that there just wasn't time to write. That and the last two times I had any sort of inspiration were both around the time I was back in school for my licensure program, so it just felt busier doing all those things. This time? There was busy, but also a lot of not busy since many things were virtual or closed.
I also think it helped that I decided to reread PBox before I started writing and it had enough seeds for the rest of the complete story to get invested in and remember where I was headed. And again, that PBox Nick is a loud and picky spotlight hog, lol. I always did really love the characters in PBox; it always felt like they were what breathed life into the story, rather than the idea itself. And it felt like reconnecting with an old friend after a long time.
That's a lesson I've taken from all of this. I've always thought characters were a strength in my writing, but I've definitely thought more about just how important a compelling and breathing character is to the story. Coupled with an idea with investment and I think it was easy enough to pick PBox&Co back up. And then I look at my two more "recent" old ideas, besides PBox and think... Okay, Gobosei, I always found to be an idea with investment, it's one I always said I go back to (even back then), but as it stands (and probably the reason PBox stayed pushy), the characters were less compelling and didn't breathe quite the same way. Beta Sigma Beta is the opposite; I no longer feel invested in the idea, but think back on the characters being more compelling. One of those things feels easier to tweak in a rewrite, mainly because the Boys had compelling moments in Gobosei, but now that I've written over half of grimdark and epic PBox, it feels as though the original plan for Gobosei feels too much like PBox and what was compelling about it when I looked back over it briefly were actually the more light-hearted aspects. And it still feels like I can adjust the narrative to give more of those things the focus.
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All that makes sense. Sounds like it was the perfect blend of time plus inspiration with a bit of nostalgia thrown in. All the elements you need to go back to writing fanfic!
That's interesting that Gobosei and Beta Sigma Beta feel like opposites when it comes to compelling characters vs. a compelling storyline. I wish there was a way you could marry the two ideas by using Beta's characters with ideas from Gobosei, but they may be too different from each other. They were also fully enough formed ideas for you to start posting them. I think combining ideas works better when you have ideas that may not be compelling enough on their own that could work with other ideas. But hopefully you can revise Gobosei to give it a different feel from PBox while keeping the things you find compelling about it. (Although, if it helps, no one has ever complained about me writing stories with similar plots.)
--- Quote from: nicksgal on May 29, 2021, 05:56:10 PM ---Didn't you say that where you left off Guilty Roads was a part where it felt like Nick wouldn't do whatever it is he was doing? If Guilty Roads still seems compelling enough, maybe that's the thing you should look at. Either going back and adjusting Nick from the beginning to be someone who would get to that point and do what you wanted him to do or letting him pick up and do what he wanted to do and figure out how to adjust the timeline of the plan or change the plan completely to fit with that. I also think that going back and changing the beginning wouldn't be the worst thing after this much time if that's what you felt like needed to be done for the story to work. I'll be honest, I will probably change some things for what's posted of Gobosei when the time comes and feel zero guilt about it since it only got a little ways in (whereas despite feeling that the rewrite of PBox was necessary, I was more meticulous about what I allowed myself to change). I don't know if any of this is the road map to a "magic formula," but maybe it's a start for us both to pick back up our long hiatus projects. :)
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Yeah. Here's [one of] the problem(s) with Guilty Roads. It was a manufactured idea based on The Lion King. I'm basically stuck in the part of the story where Simba (Nick) is chilling with Timon and Pumbaa (the Amish), while everyone else thinks he's dead. I want to keep Nick in Amish country because that was supposed to be a major part of the story, but I've always struggled to come up with reasons for him to stay instead of going back to the rest of the Boys. Turns out I also dislike writing about the Amish, so I should just have him go back... but then my plan for the rest of the story falls apart, and the introduction of the Amish characters seems pointless. It's definitely a situation where I, as a plot-driven writer, have come up with a plot that doesn't make the most sense with my main character, and I'm trying to force him to do what I want, and he's fighting me on it. Maybe I should let him do what makes sense and see where else he can take the story, but I don't even want to open that can of worms right now and risk derailing MBK. So we'll see... maybe I'll explore that more when I'm between novels again. I should probably just have him go back and promptly get diagnosed with cancer because then I would have no problem finishing the story LOL.
--- Quote from: nicksgal on May 29, 2021, 05:56:10 PM ---If I remember correctly, it was mushroom "coffee." Blech! Another great use of the barfing emoji we don't have, lmao! I didn't used to be a black coffee drinker, but it's definitely grown on me in the past year. I do enjoy a latte every now and again still though, so you drink your beige coffee with pride.
Team Pamplemousse! (LaCroix) But I do enjoy their lemon and lime from time to time as well. I think it's about finding flavors you enjoy in their natural state. If you're not a huge grapefruit fan, pamplemousse might not be your jam. I like LaCroix better than the other brands, but in my first ventures into bubbly water there was a more colorful brand that I drank first, I think it was "Sparkling Ice"? It eventually felt too sugary and it was an easy transition to LaCroix. LaCorix is usually on sale though and enough other people like it that if it's not your thing, you can share it. I think Aha has caffeinated flavors? And Hi-Ball sounds familiar?
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Ew! I hate mushrooms, so that sounds disgusting. Not sure why mushrooms are better for you than coffee beans. They're both natural! And to my knowledge, mushrooms don't contain caffeine, which is the whole point of coffee.
Thanks for the recommendation s! I don't think I've tried the LaCroix brand, so I will have to give that a try.
RokofAges75:
--- Quote from: nicksgal on May 29, 2021, 06:12:39 PM ---I think it's a trade off. Didn't you feel like you had more for Nick in the beginning? And now it's the opposite. Maybe once you get through this part, it will feel more even. I usually limit my 1st person to one POV for that reason, but I think if you can effectively get intimately into two characters heads to tell the story right, then it's more interesting. You're almost through this portion!
I believe that, because what a perfect dramatic event for the Millennium Tour! I'm glad you're not deviating from your plan to give Nick a traumatic injury that seems more interesting, but ultimately doesn't fit.
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Yep. It should even out when I get past this section and get both main characters together again.
LOL The other boys would kill me if I gave Nick a TBI on top of what Kevin's been dealing with. Nick is supposed to be the uninjured one in this story!
--- Quote from: nicksgal on May 29, 2021, 06:12:39 PM ---It is hard! But I think that sometimes it's better if we cut the things that feel unnecessary either after the fact or preemptively like I did in the beginning. Sometimes I feel like every little thing is important if I felt bothered to write it down, but it just isn't and it's a good skill to hone and recognize to tighten up the narrative.
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Absolutely! I have gotten better at that, as well as just not writing pointless stuff in the first place, but it's still hard to cut whole scenes you spent time writing.
--- Quote from: nicksgal on May 29, 2021, 06:12:39 PM ---One chapter just has the "f" word in all caps followed by the month, lmao!
That makes it hard, especially when you want to give him equal time, but those things don't feel like they take up equal time. In a movie, you could just frame it as a narrative "brown out." There's probably a way to do that in prose that involves less transitions, but it would probably feel really disorienting as a reader. Unless that feeling was the goal, but I'm guessing it's not.
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LOL! Yes!
Yeah, I'm not trying to disorient the readers. If anything, I'm trying to reorient them to the world as it was in early 2008. I made myself laugh in my last chapter when I was writing some chitchat between AJ and Kevin to lead into the more serious conversation they needed to have, and AJ was talking about missing new episodes of "Big Brother" while he was out of the country.
--- Quote ---“I wish there was a way you could watch Big Brother online or something,” I said.
“No shit. That would be amazing! Maybe someday...” AJ sighed.
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2008 does not seem like that long ago, but it was before streaming TV shows was a thing, and smartphones were brand new. The first iPhone came out in the summer of 2007. So I'm having to factcheck myself a lot on anything related to technology.
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