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[RokofAges75]

This was today's Camp Care Package on Nano.  I thought it could make a good discussion topic.


"Sometimes choosing a story idea is easy, others times it’s like having a rose to give only to one potential suitor. Sometimes you have to give the story a tryout period before finding out it’s the one. Also, never be afraid to put a story aside when you realize it’s not working out the way you like."

Today's Writing Challenge:

Before you begin your writing session for the day, take a minute to jot down the things you absolutely love about the story you're writing right now. What about it makes you feel excited and invested? (If you can't think of anything, or if another story keeps popping into your head, maybe that's a sign to try something different for a little while.)

Do you usually focus on one project, or do you get distracted by lots of new plot bunnies?

I almost always have a period of what I call "WADD" when I'm between novels and trying to figure out which project to tackle next.  I usually end up flitting from story to story, outlining or writing a little bit here and there until I finally settle into one, and that becomes my next project.  Sometimes it only takes me a few days of doing this to decide, and sometimes it takes weeks or months.

It seems to be worst when I've just finished a long story that took years to write.  After I finished BMS, I wrote nothing but short stories and collaborations for over two years before I finally found a solo project that could hold my attention for longer than a few weeks.  I went through a similar period with SAMS, after which I went back and forth between what would become AHTIM, Heroic Measures, and MBK for over a year before I settled into AHTIM.  It's so satisfying to look back on that and realize that I have since finished AHTIM and Heroic Measures and made MBK my main project.  

Usually once I get far enough into a novel to think of it as my main project, I will stick with it until the end.  But it often goes through that tryout period, like the quote said.  I really thought I would want to write that Brian horror story over MBK, but once I got the first scene out of my system, I didn't really feel compelled to keep writing it.  I hope I will someday, but for now I'm just happy that MBK is going well.

So... things I love about MBK:
- It's my first Kevin novel! I'm having more fun torturing writing Kevin than I thought I would.
- Nick is not a victim! He may be a hot mess, but he gets a break in this one. It's nice to write something different.
- It's fun hopping back and forth between two different POVs.
- It's full of drama and angst - my favorite things to write!
- The research I've done for it has been interesting, and I've learned a lot.
- It has given me a greater appreciation for little things in life I used to take for granted.
- It's been fun reminiscing on the Unbreakable era, but I've also been reminded how glad I am that Kevin is back in the group and Nick is no longer a hot mess.

[RokofAges75]

Bad-lekya with a silent D, lmao. I love that pronunciation. Now I wish I had more excuses to use this brand new acronym.

I believe in your character development MBK Hot Mess Nick!

LOL I know; it's a good one!  I totally had to go watch the clip of their fight.  The first time I ever saw it, I was horrified at how they were both shouting "Shut the fuck up!" at each other, but now I'm like Kevin laughing in between them - I just find it funny.  It shows that brotherly relationship they have, because the only person I could ever see myself screaming at like that in real life is my sister LOL.

That's what I keep telling myself, one day at a time. And if I get that day by writing a little of something else, so be it. Realistically, I'm happy as long as I can be ten chapters ahead of whatever I'm posting, 15 is better, 20 would be amazing. I think there's some dread that comes with finishing a story and I don't know why that is... I think we've already talked about that though?

Yeah, I think we have.  It's true, though.  I think it's because while you're excited to finish, you're already starting to worry about what you're going to write - or not write - next and if it will go as well as the story you've been working on and have gotten comfortable with.  It's fear of the unknown.

I challenge you! We'll do it together. I'm sure I'll have 50,000 words of something to try to write in July.

Sounds good!  I will still be writing MBK LOL.  My early estimate is that this is going to be a medium-sized novel for me, not an 100+ chapter epic, but also not a 25-chapter short novel.  I'm guessing it will be around 50 chapters?  Which probably means it will end up being at least 60, although I have been more concise with my last few stories, so maybe not.  In any case, I'm only on Chapter 12, so it has quite a ways to go.

I've been doing it on my own since I didn't want to make PBox a project when I was editing it, though it would have been nice to keep track of my monthly progress on PNecklace specifically in hindsight. If you want to keep tracking it on NaNo, you just go to your "projects" section and any project you've added will have a little button that says "create new goal" and then a window pops up where you name the goal, add the number of words in your goal, and then set the timeline. If it has a goal already associated to it (e.g., "Camp NaNo April 2021"), you won't see the button until that goal timeline ends.

Awesome, thanks!  I may have to create a new goal when this month is over.

Since I've had a computer again, writing has been so much easier. I wonder if I would have gotten more into it in 2015 if I'd had an actual computer at the time and not just a tablet or my phone.

This made a huge difference for me too!  My last laptop died right after I finished the first few chapters of MBK back in 2018, and that was a big part of what derailed my writing for the rest of that year.  I didn't buy a new laptop because I still had an old desktop computer, but I had gotten so spoiled by being able to write wherever I wanted that I didn't like sitting at a desk any more.  It wasn't as comfortable, so I just didn't do it as often.  First world problems.  I finally asked for a Chromebook for Christmas that year, and I was so much more productive after that.  This past year I got a new desk, desk chair, and desktop computer, which is what I'm on right now, but I still prefer my Chromebook for writing.  I know Tracy uses a tablet and has used her phone in the past, but I could never write that way regularly.

I want to be better about getting morning sessions in. I have gone back to my "I have nothing to do and no students are here yet, I will write until they show up" and it's been pretty productive the two days I did it so far. I think I need to convince myself to do some writing earlier on weekends or set times when I can check the forum (like "write from x time to x time, then check the forum) rather than "type type type type type refresh type type type type type refresh," lol.

Good for you, writing before/at work!  I've been on spring break, so it's been much easier to get morning writing sessions in, but I had been writing for a few minutes while drying my hair almost every work day.  I don't really count that as a morning writing session, but it still counts as writing - enough to keep my streak alive on days when I don't come home from work and write in the evening.  But I think doing that actually helps motivate me to come home and get writing again.  There's something about not having the time to write that makes me want to write more... whereas when I have all day to write, I will do it, but I also waste a lot more time.

I have gotten into a good routine on my days off where I wake up, make coffee, bring it back to bed with me, and write in bed for hours.  I usually don't even let myself check the forum or Twitter until I've gotten going on my writing, and then I will give myself a break.  It has worked out well for me, but it also requires that I have no plans until afternoon, which is not always the most practical.  One perk of the pandemic is that it gave me a lot more plan-free days, which I appreciated.

[RokofAges75]

I had a 10-year-old leave a comment on my site, saying she loved BSB and had gotten into fanfic and loved my story.  The fangirl side of me was excited to see such a young BSB fan (I told her she had great taste), but the adult/aunt/teacher side of me was weirded out by the thought of a 10-year-old reading my stories.  That's the same age as my students and my nephew - definitely not my target age group LOL.  There's a lot worse out there she could be reading, but still.  My stories may not have much smut, but I also don't shy away from adult content, like sex, swearing, violence, gore, and graphic details.  I'm trying to remind myself that I was only a few years older than her when I started reading fanfic, and although I came across plenty of inappropriate stuff, none of it scarred me for life.  But part of me is still cringing.

[FrickingKaos]

I have a lot of younger readers on wattpad, I can usually tell by the slang they use. None that young though!!

I have been meaning to read your new story Julie. I just got sidetracked this weekend with work but I'm off the next two days so I'll definitely be reading it.

[RokofAges75]

Yeah, she seemed young by the way she wrote; knowing 10-year-olds, I could believe she was really that age.  Probably the child of a BSB fan, but maybe not.  Some of these youngins with old souls discover them on their own through YouTube or wherever.

Thanks!  I hope you enjoy it if you get around to checking it out.  I just got caught up on your story and left you a comment on AO3.

[FrickingKaos]

Yes I just got out of work and saw the email, it's funny because I was coming here to ask is there really not many examples of Brian being a dick in fanfic lol. I feel like he is always pegged as the nice one but I just was writing that chapter the other day and I was also pissed off at the time so angry Brian hopped out and just kind of went. I thought it was good so I kept it.

[RokofAges75]

Yeah, I can't think of many examples of Brian being a dick in fanfic either.  It's funny because I also just wrote a scene with angry Brian arguing with the others yesterday.  He wasn't being a dick though, just disagreeing with the rest of the group.

I love when those fanfic fights happen spontaneously, whether it's because you're in a bad mood yourself or just because that's where the characters go with it.  AJ has come across as the angry one in my current story.  He has said some pretty mean stuff to Nick, which I take to be tough love, but it's weird for me to write him that way because AJ is usually the one to ease the tension in my stories, not cause it.

[nicksgal]

I had a 10-year-old leave a comment on my site, saying she loved BSB and had gotten into fanfic and loved my story.  The fangirl side of me was excited to see such a young BSB fan (I told her she had great taste), but the adult/aunt/teacher side of me was weirded out by the thought of a 10-year-old reading my stories.  That's the same age as my students and my nephew - definitely not my target age group LOL.  There's a lot worse out there she could be reading, but still.  My stories may not have much smut, but I also don't shy away from adult content, like sex, swearing, violence, gore, and graphic details.  I'm trying to remind myself that I was only a few years older than her when I started reading fanfic, and although I came across plenty of inappropriate stuff, none of it scarred me for life.  But part of me is still cringing.

I have a lot of younger readers on wattpad, I can usually tell by the slang they use. None that young though!!

Woah! I both love the idea of young BSB fans getting into fanfic and hate the idea of young BSB fans reading our Team Dark stuff, especially anything where any of us might consider adding a trigger warning. But then we were all talking the other day that we were in that 8-10 range when we started writing dark things, so... Maybe you're right, it wouldn't be too scarring.

I love that you both have younger readers. That makes me happy.

[nicksgal]

Yes I just got out of work and saw the email, it's funny because I was coming here to ask is there really not many examples of Brian being a dick in fanfic lol. I feel like he is always pegged as the nice one but I just was writing that chapter the other day and I was also pissed off at the time so angry Brian hopped out and just kind of went. I thought it was good so I kept it.

Yeah, I can't think of many examples of Brian being a dick in fanfic either.  It's funny because I also just wrote a scene with angry Brian arguing with the others yesterday.  He wasn't being a dick though, just disagreeing with the rest of the group.

I love when those fanfic fights happen spontaneously, whether it's because you're in a bad mood yourself or just because that's where the characters go with it.  AJ has come across as the angry one in my current story.  He has said some pretty mean stuff to Nick, which I take to be tough love, but it's weird for me to write him that way because AJ is usually the one to ease the tension in my stories, not cause it.

I can't think of Brian being a dick either. Maybe it's happening more now because we feel like he's being kind of dickish in his real life or maybe it's happened less in the past because we want to shy away from Brian being a dick. I think this is another, "keep writing them so we have a variety of stories" moments.

I also love the spontaneous fights. I think they're a great way to get some anger out if needed. So I hope it helped you work through your bad mood, Tracy.

AJ's also been my tough love character this time around for sure, but only once he gets to a certain point. Brian was kind of the tough love character in the original PBox, but they never really had any in-group fighting going on then.

I think it's good that AJ's doing something a little different this time around for you, Julie.

[nicksgal]

LOL I know; it's a good one!  I totally had to go watch the clip of their fight.  The first time I ever saw it, I was horrified at how they were both shouting "Shut the fuck up!" at each other, but now I'm like Kevin laughing in between them - I just find it funny.  It shows that brotherly relationship they have, because the only person I could ever see myself screaming at like that in real life is my sister LOL.

Same! So horrified that Frick & Frack would do that to each other, but Kevin laughing showed me that this was a normal thing for them. And now I find it funny because it's almost like Brian is stooping to Nick's "I win when I shout louder" level, except he's much calmer than Nick is. It's an interesting dynamic. I can't picture myself screaming like that at anyone, but I also have no siblings.

Yeah, I think we have.  It's true, though.  I think it's because while you're excited to finish, you're already starting to worry about what you're going to write - or not write - next and if it will go as well as the story you've been working on and have gotten comfortable with.  It's fear of the unknown.

That's probably exactly it, the fear of the unknown. I think I need a sticky note on my desk that says "the unknown is our next adventure" or something, so I stop worrying about it subconciously.

Sounds good!  I will still be writing MBK LOL.  My early estimate is that this is going to be a medium-sized novel for me, not an 100+ chapter epic, but also not a 25-chapter short novel.  I'm guessing it will be around 50 chapters?  Which probably means it will end up being at least 60, although I have been more concise with my last few stories, so maybe not.  In any case, I'm only on Chapter 12, so it has quite a ways to go.

I love how honest you are with yourself about your verboseness, lol. I am equally guilty.

Awesome, thanks!  I may have to create a new goal when this month is over.

Any time!

This made a huge difference for me too!  My last laptop died right after I finished the first few chapters of MBK back in 2018, and that was a big part of what derailed my writing for the rest of that year.  I didn't buy a new laptop because I still had an old desktop computer, but I had gotten so spoiled by being able to write wherever I wanted that I didn't like sitting at a desk any more.  It wasn't as comfortable, so I just didn't do it as often.  First world problems.  I finally asked for a Chromebook for Christmas that year, and I was so much more productive after that.  This past year I got a new desk, desk chair, and desktop computer, which is what I'm on right now, but I still prefer my Chromebook for writing.  I know Tracy uses a tablet and has used her phone in the past, but I could never write that way regularly.

My fingers get more tired and I feel like I hunch more when I'm on my tablet or phone. It's just more comfortable in general with the bigger device. When I really need to focus (or am in extreme focus mode), I sit at my desk, but I also enjoy the freedom to sit anywhere.

Good for you, writing before/at work!  I've been on spring break, so it's been much easier to get morning writing sessions in, but I had been writing for a few minutes while drying my hair almost every work day.  I don't really count that as a morning writing session, but it still counts as writing - enough to keep my streak alive on days when I don't come home from work and write in the evening.  But I think doing that actually helps motivate me to come home and get writing again.  There's something about not having the time to write that makes me want to write more... whereas when I have all day to write, I will do it, but I also waste a lot more time.

I have gotten into a good routine on my days off where I wake up, make coffee, bring it back to bed with me, and write in bed for hours.  I usually don't even let myself check the forum or Twitter until I've gotten going on my writing, and then I will give myself a break.  It has worked out well for me, but it also requires that I have no plans until afternoon, which is not always the most practical.  One perk of the pandemic is that it gave me a lot more plan-free days, which I appreciated.

That was my plan this morning, then I slept in, lol. It's nice to have a quiet time to sit and think "what to do" while I drink my coffee. I feel the same way, writing in the mornings has helped with my motivation to keep writing in the evenings. I found a nano care package, and I'm not sure if it was from this month or one of the other ones since they've had the new website (2019's NaNo), but the challenge was "leave yourself on a cliffhanger. Maybe that's a chapter, a scene, or even a sentence." And if I suddenly get stuck, I've been trying to do that, just leave it where I last wrote without agonizing to finish the sentence or scene. If it was going well and I go back, it usually helps me get back into it quickly.

I think the lesson I took from the pandemic was to give myself more plan-free days. I've enjoyed being able to wake up and think "today I can do anything I want." Probably will work less when "anything" involves seeing other people, but... it's been good for now.

[nicksgal]

I almost always have a period of what I call "WADD" when I'm between novels and trying to figure out which project to tackle next.  I usually end up flitting from story to story, outlining or writing a little bit here and there until I finally settle into one, and that becomes my next project.  Sometimes it only takes me a few days of doing this to decide, and sometimes it takes weeks or months.

It seems to be worst when I've just finished a long story that took years to write.  After I finished BMS, I wrote nothing but short stories and collaborations for over two years before I finally found a solo project that could hold my attention for longer than a few weeks.  I went through a similar period with SAMS, after which I went back and forth between what would become AHTIM, Heroic Measures, and MBK for over a year before I settled into AHTIM.  It's so satisfying to look back on that and realize that I have since finished AHTIM and Heroic Measures and made MBK my main project.

This is so exciting that you're almost done with all of your SAMS WADD stories! A kudos for you.

Usually once I get far enough into a novel to think of it as my main project, I will stick with it until the end.  But it often goes through that tryout period, like the quote said.  I really thought I would want to write that Brian horror story over MBK, but once I got the first scene out of my system, I didn't really feel compelled to keep writing it.  I hope I will someday, but for now I'm just happy that MBK is going well.

So... things I love about MBK:
- It's my first Kevin novel! I'm having more fun torturing writing Kevin than I thought I would.
- Nick is not a victim! He may be a hot mess, but he gets a break in this one. It's nice to write something different.
- It's fun hopping back and forth between two different POVs.
- It's full of drama and angst - my favorite things to write!
- The research I've done for it has been interesting, and I've learned a lot.
- It has given me a greater appreciation for little things in life I used to take for granted.
- It's been fun reminiscing on the Unbreakable era, but I've also been reminded how glad I am that Kevin is back in the group and Nick is no longer a hot mess.

I'm glad you got the first scene out of your system so that you have something for the next time it strikes you.

LMAO at "torturing." I love this whole list. Appreciation for the little things is a great thing to find. Is this a theme in the novel or just something that has stood out to you?

[nicksgal]

This has been my twenty minutes of furiously catching up on the forum post-dinner, lol. I wrote until I got so hungry that I couldn't think anymore because it was going so well. It's been a day! I've basically been going non-stop since 12 or 12:30 until about 7. I wasn't sure what I was going to write, so I pulled open my four choices and did some rereading. I ended up getting started on continuing a future scene I'd already started, then was scrolling through that document and found two little notes I wrote myself for possible scenes that didn't have any physical scene attached yet. And for one of them, I went "a-ha!"

I didn't know I'd be adding it to this chapter, but apparently Kevin wanted to get all of his stuff out there in one chapter, lol! And I got to penning that little note to the narrative and stared off into space for a while, like "Oh jeeze, this is dark and really depressing. Why is this so dark and depressing?" On a whole, PNecklace hasn't felt too dark and depressing, maybe because Nick's like "F-it! I'm going to keep going no matter what!" But it's not like it wasn't going to be dark; PBox is hopeful, but still pretty grim after all. And then it got worse because one of the characters is a secret-keeper and writing their reaction to the dark and depressing thing, I thought "Oh no, this is exactly how the readers might feel, isn't it?" And I know it's not going to be that bad, but it sure makes that dark and depressing thing feel even more dark and depressing when I think of it without my wealth of context and plans.

Anyone else ever feel this way?

[RokofAges75]

I can't think of Brian being a dick either. Maybe it's happening more now because we feel like he's being kind of dickish in his real life or maybe it's happened less in the past because we want to shy away from Brian being a dick. I think this is another, "keep writing them so we have a variety of stories" moments.

I think it's because Brian was always portrayed as the nice, Southern, Christian boy next door, so that's usually how he was written in fanfic - sweet, funny, religious, romantic, a loyal friend and family man, but never a dick.  That dick side - which I'm sure does exist - has come to light more in the last few years because of the documentary and the Trump troll stuff.  I would love to know exactly what Nick was referring to when he called him a dick and said "He knows what I'm talking about!" though.  Oh to be a fly on the wall!  But yes, I agree - it's fun to see all the guys portrayed in different ways.  They're all human, and I'm sure they all have dick moments.  Even Howie "She'll make me breakfast... and my lunch... and my dinner" Dorough can be a dick sometimes.

I also love the spontaneous fights. I think they're a great way to get some anger out if needed. So I hope it helped you work through your bad mood, Tracy.

AJ's also been my tough love character this time around for sure, but only once he gets to a certain point. Brian was kind of the tough love character in the original PBox, but they never really had any in-group fighting going on then.

I think it's good that AJ's doing something a little different this time around for you, Julie.

Yeah, I can definitely see Brian and Kevin being capable of tough love too.  They all should be; that's what brothers do.  AJ is my most prominent supporting character in this story, so he gets to be the one to give the tough love this time.  It's been fun writing him a little differently from my usual.

[RokofAges75]

Same! So horrified that Frick & Frack would do that too each other, but Kevin laughing showed me that this was a normal thing for them. And now I find it funny because it's almost like Brian is stooping to Nick's "I win when I shout louder" level, except he's much calmer than Nick is. It's an interesting dynamic. I can't picture myself screaming like that at anyone, but I also have no siblings.

Yes to all of that!  It is an interesting dynamic.  I think the difference between how Nick and Brian handle themselves in that fight is at least partly a reflection of how they were raised.  Nick doesn't seem to know how to disagree without getting heated and shouting and cursing, probably because his parents didn't set a good example of that when he was a kid.  I imagine there was a lot of screaming, fighting, and cursing in his house growing up.  Brian can stay calm in an argument because he grew up in a stable home with loving parents who probably modeled that for him.  I think Brian can be stubborn, but Nick clearly has the bigger temper.

My sister is two years younger than me, and we shared a room until I was 14.  We had lot of screaming fights and did horrible, hurtful things to each other.  I once whipped her with a belt.  She once threw a hardback copy of Harry Potter and the Goblet of Fire in my face and almost broke my nose.  We still love each other. LOL  Once I thought of it that way, the Frick and Frack fight seemed less of a big deal and more of a normal thing to me.

That's probably exactly it, the fear of the unknown. I think I need a sticky note on my desk that says "the unknown is our next adventure" or something, so I stop worrying about it subconciously.

That's a good idea.  And I don't know what we're so afraid of.  That's the worst thing that could happen if your next project doesn't go well?  You'll stop writing forever?  Doubtful.  If it doesn't go the way we want it to, we'll either change the plan or start a different project.

I love how honest you are with yourself about your verboseness, lol. I am equally guilty.

LOL I don't feel any guilt over it whatsoever.  It is what it is.  However many words or chapters it takes me to tell the story I want to tell is how long it will be.  I don't see myself ever writing another 200-chapter epic, but 50 is realistic.

That was my plan this morning, then I slept in, lol. It's nice to have a quiet time to sit and think "what to do" while I drink my coffee. I feel the same way, writing in the mornings has helped with my motivation to keep writing in the evenings. I found a nano care package, and I'm not sure if it was from this month or one of the other ones since they've had the new website (2019's NaNo), but the challenge was "leave yourself on a cliffhanger. Maybe that's a chapter, a scene, or even a sentence." And if I suddenly get stuck, I've been trying to do that, just leave it where I last wrote without agonizing to finish the sentence or scene. If it was going well and I go back, it usually helps me get back into it quickly.

I think the lesson I took from the pandemic was to give myself more plan-free days. I've enjoyed being able to wake up and think "today I can do anything I want." Probably will work less when "anything" involves seeing other people, but... it's been good for now.

Good for you!  I love sleeping in.  When I say I write in the morning, that could mean I start anywhere between 9 and 11:59 a.m. LOL.  I am not a morning person.  Today I slept in until about 11, and then I wrote until like 1 or 2.  I finished Chapter 12 during my "morning" session, which is great, but I find that finishing a chapter early in the day makes it harder to write again later that same day because I have such a hard time switching gears and starting a new chapter.  It is definitely easier if I leave myself off in the middle of a scene, especially if I know where it's going.  I love the advice of leaving yourself on a cliffhanger.  Rose always used to laugh at me because I would sometimes leave off in mid-sentence, but it's easier to finish a sentence than start a new one.

Plan-free days are my favorite!  Prior to the pandemic, I always thought I sounded so lame when people would ask what I was doing over the weekend and I would say "I dunno" or "Nothing," but those are my favorite kind of weekends.  "Nothing" actually means "writing."

[nicksgal]

I think it's because Brian was always portrayed as the nice, Southern, Christian boy next door, so that's usually how he was written in fanfic - sweet, funny, religious, romantic, a loyal friend and family man, but never a dick.  That dick side - which I'm sure does exist - has come to light more in the last few years because of the documentary and the Trump troll stuff.  I would love to know exactly what Nick was referring to when he called him a dick and said "He knows what I'm talking about!" though.  Oh to be a fly on the wall!  But yes, I agree - it's fun to see all the guys portrayed in different ways.  They're all human, and I'm sure they all have dick moments.  Even Howie "She'll make me breakfast... and my lunch... and my dinner" Dorough can be a dick sometimes.

Media marketing is wild, no? You can probably lose so much of yourself when you're portrayed a certain way, especially if it's a certain way in the context of other people, whether that's good things or bad things. I mean, I believe Nick if he says "like everyone knows you are." I'm sure they all have moments where they've been huge dicks to each other. Haven't we all? I would also love to know what he's talking about. Do the other Boys know or just Brian? These are the things we wanted in your autobiography, Nick! lol

Poor Howie. He'll never live that conversation mix down here, lol.

Yeah, I can definitely see Brian and Kevin being capable of tough love too.  They all should be; that's what brothers do.  AJ is my most prominent supporting character in this story, so he gets to be the one to give the tough love this time.  It's been fun writing him a little differently from my usual.

Kevin tries to kick in doors! If that isn't tough love, I don't know what is.

So now the question is, do we ever have Nick being the "tough love" person? Or does he get absolved from that to his frequent status as main character?

Good for AJ being a prominent supporting character.