Fic Talk > General Discussion
Writing & Thread (aka The Writing Thread 4)
nicksgal:
--- Quote from: RokofAges75 on June 26, 2021, 07:53:42 PM ---I think it's natural for big ideas to evolve that way, starting as one story and eventually turning into more than one as the idea gets bigger and branches off in different directions. I don't think any of my sequels were planned from the beginning either; they came about toward the end of or even after the first story, when I either realized I had another story arc for the same characters or thought, "That was fun. I wanna write more stories like that!" The ones that work best are the ones where there really is another story arc that seems like a logical progression of the overarching plot. My failed sequels of the past were more along the lines of, "I got tired of writing the first story, so I decided to end it early and save the rest of the idea for a sequel I'll never actually write," or "I enjoyed writing this story about the Boys surviving a plane crash, so now I will write a sequel where they get shipwrecked!" Lessons learned! LOL
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Just once, I want to get a small idea and have it stay small. I'm really hoping with this next one, lol.
I like the idea of "That was fun. I wanna write more stories like that!" but you're right that it can get tedious if you find yourself rehashing the same plot in a different locale, although I love the logic of "surviving a plane crash was fun, now let's see how they do with a shipwreck!" Although now that BSB Cruises have been a thing, surviving a shipwreck makes way more sense, lol. In general, anytime I've had a vague "I wanna write a story like (fill in previous idea or really vague plotline here)" and not "I want to write this story about (fill in unique and semi-detailed plotline here)," it never works out well.
It's interesting that you would get tired of writing the first story and decide that it was better to continue it in a sequel. Why do you think that was? I ask as someone who's solution to "is bored" was "indefinite hiatus." (Let's be honest, they're abandoned.) I know you like to finish your things, is that part of it?
--- Quote from: RokofAges75 on June 26, 2021, 07:53:42 PM ---I do think one-shots or short stories are a nice way to expand on a story without committing to another novel. I wrote a little one-shot companion to Curtain Call after Nick's All American album came out because I was so inspired by a couple of the songs on it, and that was a fun way to revisit those characters. I don't think anyone would want to read a novel-length sequel to that story or SAMS, nor would I want to write one. And that's something to consider, too - not only whether or not I really want to write a sequel, but whether or not there's an audience for it. If no one else is going to read it, then I have to weigh how much I really want to write it. Is the idea worth spending that much time on when I could be devoting that time to writing something people will actually read? Some ideas are, and some aren't.
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I think they would also be good for times when you've written other scenes, but ultimately ended up not including them in the narrative in some way due to pacing or something like that (as long as it makes sense to add more content, of course.) I agree that it's important to consider the audience, especially if it's something you're on the fence about. Obviously if your gut says "yes, this is what I want to write" and no other idea sparks quite the same way, then I think it's worth writing. If you're on the fence or deciding between two ideas, then the other idea is probably better. Length of time between the original and the sequel probably makes a difference too in terms of readership. If the second one gets published a reasonable amount of time after the first one, then it would probably have more readers than if it's later.
--- Quote from: RokofAges75 on June 26, 2021, 07:53:42 PM ---I agree about the challenges. I had a lot of fun with the few that I did, but I only did the ones I felt inspired to do. I do think those few helped me broaden my horizons and experiment with different genres and writing styles, so there's definitely value in them. It sounds like you have plenty of other story ideas to play around with, but if you ever get bored, you could always look back through the threads and pick out one to try. The April Fool's challenges and the Fairy Tale Beauty and the Beast one were my favorites to do.
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I've definitely looked over a few of them, but all the ones that immediately struck me, I definitely had thoughts like "I already did and/or am planning to do this in a novel," lol. Kind of like you and the Pandaskunk challenge.
Tracy, I know you used to do them a lot. Would you say you did most of them or only certain ones? If it was most, did you need to find inspiration or did ideas just come to you right away?
--- Quote from: RokofAges75 on June 26, 2021, 07:53:42 PM ---Yeah, I guess so. I have a lot of ideas that made it as far as being written down, but never progressed to the point of having an outline or a first scene or anything. I have other ideas that have a solid outline - as in, I have at least a general sense of the beginning, middle, and end - but I haven't tried writing them yet. And then there are stories I've actually started writing and never posted because I stalled out on them before I hit that point where I felt they were going well enough to post. Heroic Measures and MBK both started out that way, and I eventually came back to them, so there may be hope for a couple of those. Guilty Roads was also an idea I'd had in one form or another for like 6-7 years before I finally started writing it, but that one did not turn out so well LOL. I've had better luck jumping on fresh ideas and writing them right away than going back to old ones I've been holding on to for a while.
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I can't remember if I've asked this... I'm too lazy to look it up. Ignore me if I did. How far into the story is "going well enough to post"? I assume at that point (based on things you've said), you'll have a more detailed outline, at least a first scene, a banner, a title, and what else?
And woah! You started posted Guilty Roads around 2011? (Curtain Call was then, yes?), but you'd had the idea since Broken? I'm surprised it wasn't more naggy once you got to it. I get fresh ones being easier to get into; if the old ones were jumpy, they wouldn't have gotten more jumpy over the years. At least more often than not. Although, you're getting back to MBK now, so maybe sometimes they do get more jumpy.
--- Quote from: RokofAges75 on June 26, 2021, 07:53:42 PM ---I agree, just making yourself open the story and write anything, even if it's just a word, is important when establishing that routine. Once it becomes a routine, it's easier to write more than one word, but there are still days when I may only write one paragraph or even just a sentence. Thankfully I haven't had many of those days this summer because I have more time and energy to make myself keep at it until I come up with more than that, but I still usually don't write as much as I feel like I should be for the amount of time I've been spending in front of the computer LOL. I would have to write over 2,000 words a day these next few days to make my goal, which I am capable of, yet can't seem to do on this story. It may just be the the nature of the story and where I'm at in it. There aren't a lot of big, dramatic, pulse-pounding scenes, and those are the ones I get sucked into and write fast. This one I'm just kind of strolling along through, slow and steady LOL. But I'm making progress either way, so I guess that's what really matters.
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Same, sometimes I'm just down to words. But I feel a little bummed if I don't at least write something every day, probably because it's a routine at this point.
Yup, I agree to all of that. (I think I said that exact same thing somewhere else in this thread, but in a later reply. We've got to stop repeating ourselves unintentionall y, lol.) I think those big dramatic ones get me and then ones where superb and beautiful inspiration strikes, then the scenes just keep flowing together, even if it's a slow point. They're rare though compared to big dramatic ones in terms of "odds of happening."
Yes! Keep making progress.
--- Quote from: RokofAges75 on June 26, 2021, 07:53:42 PM ---I had really gotten away from reading for fun, so I'm trying to get back into that routine. I have been plodding through "Where the Crawdads Sing" for about a year, so my first priority is to finish that book. Everyone says it's so good. It's not bad, but I get bored easily with it. I'm about 3/4 of the way through, so I'm getting there! I have a hard copy of that book, but I also took advantage of Prime Day and bought myself a new tablet to replace my broken Kindle Fire so I can read ebooks on a bigger screen than my phone. That should help too.
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I've heard that one's good too! Aww, I wanted to buy something for Prime Day, but couldn't think of anything I needed or wanted that would have been a really good deal. Although I'm now remembering how much I've wanted a Kitchenaid stand mixer and that may have been part of it. Oh well!
--- Quote from: RokofAges75 on June 26, 2021, 07:53:42 PM ---I have been trying to do some other creative-type activities, too. I finished building the Lego Knight Bus from Harry Potter that my niece and nephew got me for Christmas. I hadn't played with Legos since I was a kid, so that was an experience! I also started working on the BSB puzzle I bought during the pandemic and never put together LOL. I hate doing puzzles, so I haven't gotten very far on it, but at least it's started. I want to finish it and frame it so I can hang it up in my writing room. And finally, I decided to redecorate my guest bathroom, which is the only room in my house I didn't do anything to after I bought it. I decided it needs a fun theme. I got the wild idea to give it a "The Shining" theme (so welcoming, right?) and went on Etsy to see if I could find any bathroom stuff to fit that theme, like a shower curtain or something... and OMG, I found so much stuff!! The people of Etsy are just as warped as me LOL. So I ordered a bunch of fun stuff that has slowly been coming in. You have to be brave to spend the night at my house!
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Those all sound so fun! I hope you do finish your puzzle soon. OMG, I love your bathroom! Hopefully it doesn't scare anyone shitless, lol. ;) (We can say badass now, we can say shitless too, right? lol) Etsy is great for that. You can find pretty much anything you'd think to look for, I think. The theme reminded me of this art pop type hotel we have downtown where every floor has a different theme. Anyway, one of them was horror themed, but right when you step out of the elevator, the twins are standing right there. I almost noped out of there, but I needed to stay vigilant in my mission of retrieving something from a room, lol.
--- Quote from: RokofAges75 on June 26, 2021, 07:53:42 PM ---Anything with animals is sure to get me, too! Or those videos of military men and women coming home and surprising their families - I cry at every one of those, too.
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I was literally having this same conversation the other day, lol. Same. That car commercial they were running last winter where the little girl is making cards to send to her dad and ornaments for the tree, but then they drive there in the car and the dad surprises her... I cried a lot, ridiculously, because it was a car commercial and not an actual reunion video.
--- Quote from: RokofAges75 on June 26, 2021, 07:53:42 PM ---That's a good question. My first guess was that it's because we came up with the ideas and probably already envisioned the scenes beforehand, but that doesn't explain why we still cry watching sad movies we've seen a million times. My other thought was that maybe it's because our brains are so focused on the process of writing that we're not feeling the emotions as much as if we were experiencing the story as a reader (or viewer of a movie). I also get that anxious feeling when I'm writing dramatic/emotional scenes, but usually not to the point of crying or shouting at my screen or the kind of reactions I have when reading/watching other people's stuff.
But that brings up another question: Have you ever cried while reading a scene you previously wrote? I don't mean proofreading or editing, but just reading for the fun of it. I have, but it's rare and not consistent. There are certain scenes that actually will bring tears to my eyes sometimes, but not every time. I think I'm more likely to cry if I've immersed myself in the story and read everything leading up to that point than if I just read a specific chapter in isolation. And even then, it's usually just a certain line that will get me more than the entire scene.
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Yes, even in a movie where I could recite all the lines, if I cried at something the first time, I will always cry (or at least tear up). I think it might be the focus piece coupled with meticulous planning. If it's not a surprise, it's not the same effect. As I'm thinking about it, things I meticulously plan to be funny won't get a laugh from me when I write them down. They might have gotten a laugh from me the first time I thought of them and I guess the things that are sad have made me tear up a couple times when I've initially thought of them. However, the funny things that kind of spill out, I will laugh at for such a long time.
Now that I think about it, I did tear up a little last weekend when Nick was being a brat and insisted I include a flashback. I say this because that was both an "unplanned sad thing" and is semi-related to your question in that it was a flashback to a scene that has made me cry during a reread. And like you said, it's usually when I'm rereading and have fully immersed myself in the story. I wonder if since we've both said we'll happily reread certain works of ours if anyone is now analyzing to figure out which scenes get us, lol.
--- Quote from: RokofAges75 on June 26, 2021, 07:53:42 PM ---Yay, I love that you used "conversate" in your story LOL. It's fun to use those real life idiosyncrasies into stories when we can. I make myself laugh every time I have Howie say "and stuff like that," which is not nearly often enough - but I guess if I overused that phrase, it wouldn't be funny anymore.
Yeah, unless IWITW was actually recorded much earlier than any of us thought LOL. I guess we don't really know, but I also can't imagine him being younger than 18 when he recorded it. He clearly was not thinking through all that logic. And of the five of them, he should have the easiest time keeping track of dates and ages because of his birth year. It's easy math to figure out how old you were in a given year when you were born in 1980 LOL.
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Honestly, the way the rest of the scene went, it just fit perfectly with what Nick was saying, lol. I also love a good "and stuff like that," it's why I was most bummed with making Howie speak so formally in PBox. They're gems when they get in. We need to treat them that way so they don't become cliche, even though it's cannon.
Google says "November 1998," which makes sense to me and thus plants him firmly at 18. No, he just blurted out an answer. He didn't even hesitate to do some math. Which is terrifying in a way, lol. I know. I never have a hard time remembering how old Nick was. Brian is fairly easy because of the five. AJ, just add two to Nick. Kevin, just add eight. Howie always takes me a second to think. Sorry Howie, it's not your fault, sevens are hard.
--- Quote from: RokofAges75 on June 26, 2021, 07:53:42 PM ---Yeah, Secrets of the Heart is the AU one I'm talking about. All five guys are in it, but they don't all know each other. It's mainly about Brian and AJ, who don't know each other at the beginning but meet over the course of the story. Kevin is still Brian's cousin, Howie is AJ's friend, and Nick is a substitute teacher who takes over for Brian when he's on leave. So they don't have the same kind of brotherly/boyband relationship they do in real life where nicknames would get thrown around a lot. I do think "D" is in there, so I would probably do the same thing Mare did and just give Howie a D name, but I'd have to look and see if there are any others.
I think it's fine to keep Nick's name the same. Of all of them, that would be the one to keep (in a Nick-centered story, anyway). When I started OF novelizing Broken, I also kept Nick's name and changed the other four.
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It probably easier to OF Backstreet when their brotherly/boyband vibe is absent. Brotherly is probably easy enough to make a way to justify, but boyband is the first thing that would probably need to go. I also think it would be difficult to write a story (non-fanfic) about a boyband in general without it focusing on some other side aspect of celebrity, but that's mostly because the greatest appeal in a boyband (real or fictional) is the music, and a novel just isn't a medium that's conducive to music.
Yes, it would be quite weird to change Nick's name, but leave the more distinct AJ or Howie, lol. Brian or Kevin could be more possible to get away with in the absence of a "Nick."
--- Quote from: RokofAges75 on June 26, 2021, 07:53:42 PM ---Regarding publishing, those are all great points. It's been years since I even half-seriously looked into it, but the more I read about the whole process, the less interested I am in pursuing it. It does seem like it takes a lot of effort and/or money, depending on how you go about it, for little chance of success if you're going the traditional route. Even if I succeeded, I don't know that the reward is worth the work and the risk in my case because, like I said, what would I even do with a published book? I wouldn't want to promote it outside of the internet, and I probably wouldn't make much, if any, money from it, so what's the point? I already have an internet presence and am fine with writing for free under a pen name, so the only point would be to prove that I'm good enough to published (which, in reality, I'm probably not LOL) and bask in the glow of seeing my book in print.
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It seems daunting, right? I've looked a little in Rick Riordian as a person, since he's a similar career background, and I'm pretty sure he stopped teaching once the Percy Jackson books became popular. You would get to put it on your bookshelf and post a picture on twitter. :) But you're right, that's a lot of effort, time, and cost for simply basking and enjoying. Realistically, I'm probably not either, but that's a few roads from here. Getting a story to potentially publishable is really the first step.
nicksgal:
--- Quote from: RokofAges75 on June 26, 2021, 08:20:52 PM ---Oh wow... that is really interesting. It's a great point. If you imagine fantasy cultures as alien instead of drawing from a real culture, you're less likely to appropriate or write something that could be offensive. And in this day and age, anything could be considered offensive. It seems like a hard challenge to create four different fantasy cultures from scratch though. Just another reason I will leave the fantasy writing to you! LOL
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Yes, which is my big fear and I guess rightly so these days. Because even if you're coming from a place of love, it's still possible to be offensive. And truthfully, there are probably several places where I would call PBox "potentially (or definitely) problematic." You know, as I've been pondering it, it hasn't been too bad knowing that they all started from the same place, but the thing that happened (woah, vague vagueness, lol) caused them to faction into these four countries so it's just looking at that starting point and then where they are now and filling in the gaps. (And as I've said many times, if I have an A and I have Z, I can generally fill in the middle eventually.) I call them "countries," but realistically, it's more like the difference between Athens and Sparta than say... France and Germany. I think in this case, it's probably better to start looking at how countries develop in broad terms from more concrete things like geography. Like if a country is on a coast, fishing or naval exploits are likely how they survive and make money, so what does that mean for their culture. If a country is surrounded by mountains, how does that affect their food growth (among other things)? What is trade like between these places? And then after that looking at things like "there's this big event in the history of these pretend palces, what has happened in similar instances in our world?" Then looking broadly at several cultures to notice patterns. But as you said, you've left this to me, so I'm just rambling at this point, lol.
--- Quote from: RokofAges75 on June 26, 2021, 08:20:52 PM ---My first thoughts were getting kidnapped or getting a disease. There are exceptions, of course, but usually those things don't seem to happen to AJ in stories, but they happen to poor Nick a lot LOL.
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Mine too, so I'm happy to hear I wasn't too far off the mark, lol. I do like to issue personal challenges to myself as I write. I've picked two for this story. One of which is to give AJ some more to do since he usually gets stuck in "major supporting cast" territory in my stories (if not "minor supporting cast"). So in order to be more of a plot changer, he needs to be more mobile than "missing" or "sick" would make him. Which is probably why I've plotted myself into a corner, lol.
--- Quote from: RokofAges75 on June 26, 2021, 08:20:52 PM ---LOL You're probably right. I'm not sure Nick intended for the thing to be a campy SyFy movie in the beginning, but some of them clearly realized how ridiculous it was and had fun with it. '90s boyband members fight zombies in the wild west... you can't beat that premise! It's glorious LOL.
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Creatively meticulous Nick? No, he probably did not envision Dead7 as a campy film produced by the people who brought us the cinematic masterpiece Sharknado. LOL! In his mind it was probably more "serious horror film set in the west," but then he realized that he would have to pay actors for a pet project and his friends would do it for less, lol. Pretty sure AJ and Joey are at the top of the list of "those who realized this is ridiculous, but awesome," lol. And Howie as we've already discussed. And no, you just can't beat that premise. I'd argue that any premise that begins with "when '90s boyband members collaborate on ______" can only get better from there, lol.
--- Quote from: RokofAges75 on June 26, 2021, 08:20:52 PM ---Awesome, thanks! Just bookmarked that to peruse later.
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Any time! Happy to be able to share resources with you for once!
--- Quote from: RokofAges75 on June 26, 2021, 08:20:52 PM ---I think there might be, but let's be honest - I like watching those videos, or I wouldn't click on them. And sometimes I do click on one related to whatever I was researching last time and learn something new, so they can be helpful, too. Just distracting LOL.
I don't watch too many "react" videos, but I have a weakness for "Real doctors react to medical dramas" and anything related to Titanic. Thankfully, the Titanic one I watched was edited down to about half an hour, and I still skipped through some of it. I was just curious to see if the guy cried at the end because it was titled something like, "I Watched Titanic For the First Time and It DESTROYED Me!" He did not, and I was disappointed. LOL The "Kids React" videos are fun though!
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I know, I know. I just still haven't fully given myself permission to get distracted during working hours, lol.
Yes, something like that would be hilarious. It's the "random dude reacts to blah blah blah" that I like less, especially if it's something random dude should have seen in the past decade. Why would you call it "and it destroyed me" if it did not in fact "destroy [you]"? Clickbait... I would have been disappointed too.
nicksgal:
--- Quote from: RokofAges75 on June 26, 2021, 08:42:09 PM ---LOL That is how meticulous I have gotten about fact-checking because you can find just about everything on the internet these days - so if I can find out for sure, I will. I see it as a fun challenge of writing stories set in a specific time period, even if I waste time being meticulous with minor details that no one would ever fact-check me on. But like you said, I would know, and that's what matters.
You're probably right about most places in L.A. being open on Easter. I'm sure that's true of most big cities, other than maybe in the Bible Belt or deep South.
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You're absolutely right on that! I think it's one of those things where if you put it in after doing your due diligence on research, no one notices, but if it's inaccurate, people will notice. And then compound that with the things you would notice and it becomes this rabbit hole of distraction. I think people would notice if you hadn't figured out how they got a movie that wouldn't be on TV yet (or released yet). But you would notice that Ten Commandments was shown the day before. Oh, you should have them watch The Prince of Egypt; that's a fun Easter romp, lol.
This same type of thing has led to a little heartache for me today (tell me why...). I wanted this "Nick avoids being the main character" to be vaguely Millennium in time period (as my writing often is), but I'd forgotten that they started the tour in Europe, which works out less with my plans. They did have about a month long break between the European leg and the North American leg, but I'm pretty sure at least half of that was hurricane season-related (if memory serves correctly), and I can't imagine they'd have a "re-tour rehearsal," even if they had a month off, from a tour they'd been performing for three months at that point. Now part of me says, "Eh, it's a novella vaguely implied to take place before ITM, it's going to be fine" and part of me is like "Someone will know and call me out on it." See? This is the type of stuff that makes me more impressed with y'all's ability to be able to weave story into history instead of my "I can make that up with enough time and related research."
I think it probably depends on the demographic of the area too (and the holiday). If patrons are less likely to come in, then you're losing money being open. There are restaurants around here that would normally be open all day on Sundays, but will do half-days on Easter. Or the sports bar I used to work at was open 365 days a year, but only post-6pm on Thanksgiving/Christmas and pre-6pm on Christmas Eve. And it's not Easter specific, but most malls around here (and even Target) will open late and close early on Sundays compared to the rest of the week. So really, you could probably justify "open" or "closed" depending on the way you wanted to swing it.
--- Quote from: RokofAges75 on June 26, 2021, 08:42:09 PM ---As far as AJ's favorite pre-2005 movie goes, this is where those old teenybopper Angelfire sites that list all their favorites from the 90s come in handy LOL. I found several of them that say his favorite movie is Pulp Fiction, which would fit your criteria. http://angels_bsb_love.tripod.com/ajbio.html Here's a more recent article from 2015 where they list their favorite movies, and AJ says his all-time favorite is Dirty Rotten Scoundrels, which would also work since it's from 1988. https://editorial.rottentomatoes.com/article/the-backstreet-boys-five-favorite-films/
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LMAO! That was my genuine reaction to reading this, but seems out of place. Let me explain. I did vaguely remember that it was Pulp Fiction, but wanted something less... gritty due to what they were talking about in the scene that actually mattered. I enjoyed that you linked me that Rotten Tomatoes article as that is the exact article I used to justify choosing Dirty Rotten Scoundrels for my vague "[movie]" placeholder. I'm sorry, I should have mentioned more explicitly in my recount that I had finished this research project already. I appreciate you taking the time to help me all the same. *hugs*
The first time I read that Rotten Tomatoes article though, I did shout "Nick, The Goonies!" at my phone like an idiot, lol.
--- Quote from: RokofAges75 on June 26, 2021, 08:42:09 PM ---The placeholder is a good idea. I hate doing it just because I'm one of those writers who edits as I go and aims for almost-final draft quality over a "sloppy copy." But I do have a tendency to get bogged down on dumb, minor details like the movie thing or names for throwaway characters, so sometimes I have to make myself use [Name] if I can't make a quick decision. This is why I name most of my minor doctor/nurse/therapist/cop characters after readers or people who have inspired me in some way; I keep a list I can refer back to when I need to pick a name so I don't have to make one up because I almost always overthink it.
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It also took a lot to not hate it for me, but it has helped immensely knowing that I'll go back and edit as I write and then meticulously edit each chapter prior to posting even if I was happy with it when I finished it initially. So it's a lot easier to tell myself "You know editing is a huge part of your process now, so don't let this be the thing that gets you hung up when you were happily writing away until this moment." I should start using [Name] for minor characters. I would do something equally annoying like writing "the doctor" a million times and growing to loathe it, especially if it's in dialogue where a character wouldn't reasonably say "our gym teacher" or something like that. Thank goodness for the "name thread"! I think it's good that you have a list for names of minor characters. I think that's equally helpful as a fellow overthinker.
--- Quote from: RokofAges75 on June 26, 2021, 08:42:09 PM ---I was super productive in the early a.m., but that was before I went to bed. Now it's 8:30 p.m. and I haven't written anything since waking up LOL. I have definitely switched from "morning" writing to "night" writing, even though most of it technically still takes place in the early morning. But then it will count toward tomorrow's word count, not today's. That is why I'm unlikely to hit 2,000 words, even today, because now I have to start a new chapter, and that's almost always slow going for me.
Yay for finally getting your new washer and dryer and some peace and quiet! I hope you have a productive night!
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What time did you go to bed yesterday/wake up today? Are you liking night writing better due to the less distractions? On NaNo, I feel bad about fudging it, but I will consider post-midnight "today" if I haven't gone to bed yet and started writing whatever during today. If I got back to it at midnight, I would call it "tomorrow." Yay, new chapter! I believe!
Yes! I have done ten loads of laundry so far. I'm slowly getting through my items that need to be washed separately.
We'll see how productive my night goes. Here I am posting on the forum again at 10:30pm, lol. I wrote about 500 words this afternoon, but looked up one thing I thought would be such an easy question and... no, it was not easy. It really derailed me and complicated things leading to further research. So now here I am adding a scene that I hadn't really planned on writing that's just making me feel bummed out because of a dedication to certain types of details (as opposed to accurate timelines, lol). Sigh... :-[
RokofAges75:
--- Quote from: nicksgal on June 26, 2021, 10:20:01 PM ---Just once, I want to get a small idea and have it stay small. I'm really hoping with this next one, lol.
I like the idea of "That was fun. I wanna write more stories like that!" but you're right that it can get tedious if you find yourself rehashing the same plot in a different locale, although I love the logic of "surviving a plane crash was fun, now let's see how they do with a shipwreck!" Although now that BSB Cruises have been a thing, surviving a shipwreck makes way more sense, lol. In general, anytime I've had a vague "I wanna write a story like (fill in previous idea or really vague plotline here)" and not "I want to write this story about (fill in unique and semi-detailed plotline here)," it never works out well.
It's interesting that you would get tired of writing the first story and decide that it was better to continue it in a sequel. Why do you think that was? I ask as someone who's solution to "is bored" was "indefinite hiatus." (Let's be honest, they're abandoned.) I know you like to finish your things, is that part of it?
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LOL Small ideas are nice! It's fun to be able to finish a story in under a year. But there is also something to be said for the feeling accomplishment that comes with finishing an epic story or series.
Don't tempt me with the BSB cruise shipwreck idea LOL. It's not a bad idea, although it'd be better if it was just the boys and not the boys plus thousands of their fans on the boat.
I agree about the vague "I wanna write a story like this one" idea. I've always struggled the most with ideas that I forced out while trying to emulate something else I read or watched. Secrets of the Heart and Guilty Roads were both those types of ideas, and I had a hard time with both of them. I finished Secrets, but only because I forced myself to. I've learned that it's better to sit on those vague "I wanna write a survival story" or "I wanna write a bromance" thoughts until an actual idea comes along that works with them.
I really can only remember doing that once, where I finished the first story early and saved the rest for a sequel that I never ended up writing. It was with The Other Child, my only experience writing on "on demand" story that a reader gave me the idea for. I thought the idea was kinda cool at first, but I got bored with it and just wanted to finish it, so I slapped a quick ending on it and said I would write a sequel to continue the story. I guess back then it was more important to me to finish a story before moving on to the next one than to write it well, whereas now I guess I'd rather have on on an indefinite hiatus than ruin it by forcing out a crappy ending. I have other old stories that I had planned a sequel for and never wrote or finished, but at least the first stories were finished in a way I was happy with at the time.
--- Quote from: nicksgal on June 26, 2021, 10:20:01 PM ---I think they would also be good for times when you've written other scenes, but ultimately ended up not including them in the narrative in some way due to pacing or something like that (as long as it makes sense to add more content, of course.) I agree that it's important to consider the audience, especially if it's something you're on the fence about. Obviously if your gut says "yes, this is what I want to write" and no other idea sparks quite the same way, then I think it's worth writing. If you're on the fence or deciding between two ideas, then the other idea is probably better. Length of time between the original and the sequel probably makes a difference too in terms of readership. If the second one gets published a reasonable amount of time after the first one, then it would probably have more readers than if it's later.
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Yep, I agree with all of this. If you do have several scenes you wrote that did not make it into the final draft of the story, you could always post them as like a "deleted scenes" bonus feature, too. That would be fun! Since I don't write ahead, I don't usually find myself with deleted scenes like this. When I do hack and slash a chapter, I end up actually deleting what didn't make it into the final draft. Maybe I shouldn't do that because it might be fun to go back and look at the original versions, but as we've discussed previously, I can't stand having multiple versions of stories junking up my folders LOL.
--- Quote from: nicksgal on June 26, 2021, 10:20:01 PM ---I can't remember if I've asked this... I'm too lazy to look it up. Ignore me if I did. How far into the story is "going well enough to post"? I assume at that point (based on things you've said), you'll have a more detailed outline, at least a first scene, a banner, a title, and what else?
And woah! You started posted Guilty Roads around 2011? (Curtain Call was then, yes?), but you'd had the idea since Broken? I'm surprised it wasn't more naggy once you got to it. I get fresh ones being easier to get into; if the old ones were jumpy, they wouldn't have gotten more jumpy over the years. At least more often than not. Although, you're getting back to MBK now, so maybe sometimes they do get more jumpy.
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I always at least have to have a title, outline, summary, banner, and a solid first chapter before I would post anything, but with my last few stories, I've waited till I finished about ten chapters to start posting, and that has worked out well. I think I started posting Heroic Measures when I was on Chapter 8 because I knew it was only going to be ten chapters plus an epilogue, so I was close to finishing. With SAMS, I waited all the way until Chapter 18 because I used a scene from that chapter in the prologue, but I didn't actually write it until I got to that point in the story. It depends on the plot, too, but I usually wait until I get past the inciting incident and into the heart of the story to make sure it's going well before I post.
I may have been a little off on my conception date for Guilty Roads LOL. I know that idea was on a poll I posted in the early 2000s about which story I should write next, but I checked, and it was in 2004, not 2001-2002. It was one of the ideas I accumulated while working on Broken/BMS. It's listed here under the working title "Austere Refuge," which I later changed. https://web.archive.org/web/20041121170941/http://dreamers-sanctuary.com/nextstory.html The idea evolved over time, but the basic premise was always the same. I probably would have started it sooner if I wasn't in the middle of writing BMS. Then came the epic collabs, 00Carter and Undead, so I didn't get around to it until 2010. So I sat on the idea for at least six years before I started writing it. It's the only one of those six ideas that even got that far. I did start #2, but never got far enough to post it.
I think there are different levels of naggy/jumpy. MBK and Heroic Measures were both ideas that I felt strongly enough about that I knew I would come back to them someday. They were patiently naggy, if that makes any sense LOL. Whereas the other stories I wrote while those two were waiting in the background, AHTIM and Bethlehem, were more demanding. AHTIM was one I just had to get out of my head, and Bethlehem was a "must write now" idea because of its timing with the pandemic. If I didn't jump on it and get it written last year while all that craziness was going on, I probably wouldn't have ever written it.
--- Quote from: nicksgal on June 26, 2021, 10:20:01 PM ---I've heard that one's good too! Aww, I wanted to buy something for Prime Day, but couldn't think of anything I needed or wanted that would have been a really good deal. Although I'm now remembering how much I've wanted a Kitchenaid stand mixer and that may have been part of it. Oh well!
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So I haven't written anything on MBK since my last post, but I did finish reading Where the Crawdad Sings! It was good. Not the best book I've ever read, but it definitely got better as it went along. I liked how it turned out.
That is usually me on Prime Day too; I can never think of anything expensive I want to look for deals on. I would definitely recommend the Kitchenaid mixer though! I got one for Christmas a few years ago, and I love it. It's super cute on my counter (I got the Aqua Sky color), and it makes mixing anything so easy. I can just turn it on and let it go. (Only I learned the hard way that if you walk away and leave it too long while whipping cream, it overwhips the cream and makes it all chunky and gross looking. Whoops!) Maybe wait and get one on a Black Friday/Christmas deal.
--- Quote from: nicksgal on June 26, 2021, 10:20:01 PM ---Those all sound so fun! I hope you do finish your puzzle soon. OMG, I love your bathroom! Hopefully it doesn't scare anyone shitless, lol. ;) (We can say badass now, we can say shitless too, right? lol) Etsy is great for that. You can find pretty much anything you'd think to look for, I think. The theme reminded me of this art pop type hotel we have downtown where every floor has a different theme. Anyway, one of them was horror themed, but right when you step out of the elevator, the twins are standing right there. I almost noped out of there, but I needed to stay vigilant in my mission of retrieving something from a room, lol.
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Thanks! I will post pictures when it's all done. I'm debating if I want to repaint the walls before I put everything up. They're a neutral beige color that works fine with the stuff I ordered, but there are a couple places where the paint is peeling, and the wall has screw holes in it from whatever the previous homeowner had hanging there, so I probably should do it right, patch up the walls, and give them a fresh coat of paint. I'm gonna get some paint chips and see if I like another color better. I'm not a beige fan, but if it turns out beige works best, I probably will just leave it as is instead of wasting my time and money painting it beige again LOL.
OMG, that sounds like a hotel I need to stay at! I would love that. Of course I ordered a print of the creepy twins to hang up so they can stare at people as they do their business, hehe.
--- Quote from: nicksgal on June 26, 2021, 10:20:01 PM ---Yes, even in a movie where I could recite all the lines, if I cried at something the first time, I will always cry (or at least tear up). I think it might be the focus piece coupled with meticulous planning. If it's not a surprise, it's not the same effect. As I'm thinking about it, things I meticulously plan to be funny won't get a laugh from me when I write them down. They might have gotten a laugh from me the first time I thought of them and I guess the things that are sad have made me tear up a couple times when I've initially thought of them. However, the funny things that kind of spill out, I will laugh at for such a long time.
Now that I think about it, I did tear up a little last weekend when Nick was being a brat and insisted I include a flashback. I say this because that was both an "unplanned sad thing" and is semi-related to your question in that it was a flashback to a scene that has made me cry during a reread. And like you said, it's usually when I'm rereading and have fully immersed myself in the story. I wonder if since we've both said we'll happily reread certain works of ours if anyone is now analyzing to figure out which scenes get us, lol.
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All that makes sense. I agree about things that come up in the moment having more of an emotional impact than things you've planned out in advance.
I would guess it's usually the same scenes that make readers tear up, but maybe not always. Everyone reacts differently, and you never know what's going to trigger someone. There's a part in Curtain Call where Charlotte's Web is quoted, and that's what will get me. I don't know if I'm tearing up because the scene itself is sad, which it is, or because Charlotte's Web is sad. Probably both.
--- Quote from: nicksgal on June 26, 2021, 10:20:01 PM ---Google says "November 1998," which makes sense to me and thus plants him firmly at 18. No, he just blurted out an answer. He didn't even hesitate to do some math. Which is terrifying in a way, lol. I know. I never have a hard time remembering how old Nick was. Brian is fairly easy because of the five. AJ, just add two to Nick. Kevin, just add eight. Howie always takes me a second to think. Sorry Howie, it's not your fault, sevens are hard.
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Thanks for googling that! That aligns with what I was thinking as well. Maybe Nick was just annoyed with those guys interviewing him who didn't seem to know anything about him. I haven't watched the whole video in years, but I remember being annoyed with that interview until it got to the pubic hair part LOL.
--- Quote from: nicksgal on June 26, 2021, 10:20:01 PM ---It probably easier to OF Backstreet when their brotherly/boyband vibe is absent. Brotherly is probably easy enough to make a way to justify, but boyband is the first thing that would probably need to go. I also think it would be difficult to write a story (non-fanfic) about a boyband in general without it focusing on some other side aspect of celebrity, but that's mostly because the greatest appeal in a boyband (real or fictional) is the music, and a novel just isn't a medium that's conducive to music.
Yes, it would be quite weird to change Nick's name, but leave the more distinct AJ or Howie, lol. Brian or Kevin could be more possible to get away with in the absence of a "Nick."
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Yep, I think taking away the boyband thing is an important step. A band/musician story really is better suited to TV or movies where you can actually show them performing and play the music. The brotherly relationship could work in a lot of contexts, though. Mare kept it in her published novel by making them actual brothers. In my Broken OF novel idea, they were all going to be high school friends/teammates. They could also be coworkers, college friends/roommates or frat brothers, neighbors, etc.
I think with Broken, I just cared most about preserving my couple, "Nick and Claire." It just wouldn't sound right with different names LOL.
RokofAges75:
--- Quote from: nicksgal on June 26, 2021, 10:52:57 PM ---Yes, which is my big fear and I guess rightly so these days. Because even if you're coming from a place of love, it's still possible to be offensive. And truthfully, there are probably several places where I would call PBox "potentially (or definitely) problematic." You know, as I've been pondering it, it hasn't been too bad knowing that they all started from the same place, but the thing that happened (woah, vague vagueness, lol) caused them to faction into these four countries so it's just looking at that starting point and then where they are now and filling in the gaps. (And as I've said many times, if I have an A and I have Z, I can generally fill in the middle eventually.) I call them "countries," but realistically, it's more like the difference between Athens and Sparta than say... France and Germany. I think in this case, it's probably better to start looking at how countries develop in broad terms from more concrete things like geography. Like if a country is on a coast, fishing or naval exploits are likely how they survive and make money, so what does that mean for their culture. If a country is surrounded by mountains, how does that affect their food growth (among other things)? What is trade like between these places? And then after that looking at things like "there's this big event in the history of these pretend palces, what has happened in similar instances in our world?" Then looking broadly at several cultures to notice patterns. But as you said, you've left this to me, so I'm just rambling at this point, lol.
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All that world-building seems like a fun challenge, but definitely daunting! I love your attention to detail in thinking about how geography would affect each country's economy and culture; that makes a lot of sense.
As far as being problematic, I'm sure we can all look back on our older stories and find examples of that. I know when I was reading Broken last year for my blog, I was struck by how misogynistic it sounded. I have always said Broken Nick acts like an emo teenage girl, but I forgot how much he gets ripped on for being that way in the story, by the other guys and even by himself. I apparently had more of an awareness of that as I was writing it than I realized LOL. There are so many jokes to the effect of comparing Nick to a girl on her period, as well as jokes about the actual women in the story. Reading it back, I'm not sure if I wrote it that way because that's how I thought real guys talked and thought (which is probably not too off-base) or if I was being the misogynistic one LOL, but it's definitely something that hadn't stood out to me that way before.
But as far as PBox goes, any potentially problematic parts can hopefully be edited out as you're reworking it for OF.
--- Quote from: nicksgal on June 26, 2021, 10:52:57 PM ---Mine too, so I'm happy to hear I wasn't too far off the mark, lol. I do like to issue personal challenges to myself as I write. I've picked two for this story. One of which is to give AJ some more to do since he usually gets stuck in "major supporting cast" territory in my stories (if not "minor supporting cast"). So in order to be more of a plot changer, he needs to be more mobile than "missing" or "sick" would make him. Which is probably why I've plotted myself into a corner, lol.
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Kidnapped doesn't mean he has to be missing from the story. Maybe he and Nick get kidnapped or put in a hostage situation together, but AJ gets to be the hero who fights back and plans their escape, while Nick just cowers in a corner and sleeps LOL. Giving AJ a disease is also a way to make him the center of attention. Just don't put him in a coma or cripple him if you want him to be mobile LOL.
--- Quote from: nicksgal on June 26, 2021, 10:52:57 PM ---Creatively meticulous Nick? No, he probably did not envision Dead7 as a campy film produced by the people who brought us the cinematic masterpiece Sharknado. LOL! In his mind it was probably more "serious horror film set in the west," but then he realized that he would have to pay actors for a pet project and his friends would do it for less, lol. Pretty sure AJ and Joey are at the top of the list of "those who realized this is ridiculous, but awesome," lol. And Howie as we've already discussed. And no, you just can't beat that premise. I'd argue that any premise that begins with "when '90s boyband members collaborate on ______" can only get better from there, lol.
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LOL Absolutely! AJ and Joey were both fantastic in that movie. Remember when it was originally going to be a movie called Evil Blessings about backwoods cannibals or something? Obviously I love zombies, but I still wish he would write that movie too. I also wanna see him play the villain instead of the hero! I guess he was kind of a villain in The Hollow, but not the main one. I'm also still disappointed that he did not get decapitated in that movie LOL.
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