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[RokofAges75]

I think every story in that time was "x with a hint of romance," maybe we just all thought Nick needed another good person in his life besides the Boys. I stumbled on a post called "Dee wants to write a fluffy romance, halp" and I thought about that and went "I was surprised I wanted to write a fluffy romance?" Did I really think fluffy romances were out of my wheelhouse? Because PBox has the fluffiest little romance ever in it. Whatever that other story is obviously never got very far! Maybe because in general I'm not a huge fan of stories where the main plot is only a romance. Take Les Mis, my very favorite book. Sure Marius and Cosette have kind of a fluffy little romance going on, but there's also that whole June Rebellion thing and Valjean's conflicted terminator snail that is Javert. Also, on the "all I wrote" thing: if y'all were not excited about PBox coming back, then you must be "thrilled" that it's still all I have to talk about a decade later, haha.

That is true about romance.  Poor Nick had such bad taste in women back then, and we just wanted him to be happy, so we created fictional women for him that were way better than Paris LOL.  I've always preferred romance as a subplot too.

I get having that one longterm project you keep coming back to.  Although Broken/BMS is not the best thing I've ever written, I still consider it my fanfic "magnum opus" because it was such an important piece of writing for me.  PBox is your magnum opus!

I think there's a difference between prettier/wittier/etcetera and prettiest/wittiest/etcetera. That's the Mary Sue line. I always like to think of Hitch with love interests/characteristics like that. I can't remember the movie star character's name off hand (Allegra? I know it was weird) but all the things she said she liked most about Albert were the things Hitch said to absolutely change. But then if you go too quirky, you might end up in "Manic Pixie Dream Girl" territory, which is also bad in its own way for a story.

That's a good point.  I looked up the Manic Pixie Dream Girl trope, which is pretty much what I thought it was.  Claire was definitely a bit of an MPDG.  But then again, so apparently is Jack in Titanic, Gus in The Fault in Our Stars, and any character played by Zooey Deschanel, who is one of my celebrity girl crushes, so I guess she's in good company LOL.

[RokofAges75]

If it doesn't grow on you, you're doomed! I like the name Keelie too! And I have used it for a cute, ditzy cheerleader type. I do sometimes like to give characters subversive names, but it really depends on the character.

I'm pretty sure I almost named Minako "Aya" instead, again for another character I really liked. I looked it up now and saw some of the meanings in various languages. I'm assuming I actively decided not to name my fluffy love interest "amazing and wonderful" to avoid Mary Sueism.

Poor Nick, drama constantly follows him, but I always root for him (whether that's fanfic or real life)!

Subversive names can be perfect sometimes.  I remember Kelly's Not Your Average Cinderella Story, where the female lead hated her Mary Sue name Cinderella and was the complete opposite of what you'd expect a Cinderella to be.  That was a good example.

Aya is a pretty name, but it does sound more Mary Sue than Minako.  It's too short to be a Mary Sue name though.

[nicksgal]

That is true about romance.  Poor Nick had such bad taste in women back then, and we just wanted him to be happy, so we created fictional women for him that were way better than Paris LOL.  I've always preferred romance as a subplot too.

I get having that one longterm project you keep coming back to.  Although Broken/BMS is not the best thing I've ever written, I still consider it my fanfic "magnum opus" because it was such an important piece of writing for me.  PBox is your magnum opus!

Such bad taste in women! Being single would have been a better choice than Paris Hilton. Although in recent years as she's mellowed out, I've thought a couple of times "maybe she's not that bad anymore?" And then I hate myself every time because that would be another thing that young Dee (and possibly all BSB fans) would be upset to hear.

I do enjoy that it still comes up in serious conversations (and not just leg chopping conversations), even though it's been so many years. I think you really hit your stride with it, perfected your researching skills, and created this whole little world from a tiny "what if Nick had bone cancer?" I'm totally fine that PBox et al. is my magnum opus. It earned it if the characters are still popping around in my head after 15 years.

Oh! Before I forget again, speaking of leg choppage... I had a conversation yesterday about the dangers of self diagnosing on google. One of my friends was talking about how when she injured her ankle and google said it might be bone cancer (it's not). And I said, "Yeah don't self diagnose on google, but you could totally have bone cancer in your ankle." (I assume because of Broken) Then she started talking about a time she fell while ice skating and bruised her ribs and google also said it was bone cancer and she said, "I was so worried that they would have to cut out a rib, but my doctor said bone cancer just isn't that common in ribs." And the first thing I said (which got some odd looks) was "Rib choppage! Oh noes!" But I laughed so hard. Then the second thing was, "I'm sure it's way less common than bone cancer in a limb, but I have a friend who I'm sure would know the answer." And she thought I meant my BFF who is a nurse and I said, "Oh her too. I meant another friend who likes medical drama, but you're right [BFF] might be the better person to ask." I'm still not convinced, I was sure you would know the answer off hand and my BFF would probably have to look it up, haha.

That's a good point.  I looked up the Manic Pixie Dream Girl trope, which is pretty much what I thought it was.  Claire was definitely a bit of an MPDG.  But then again, so apparently is Jack in Titanic, Gus in The Fault in Our Stars, and any character played by Zooey Deschanel, who is one of my celebrity girl crushes, so I guess she's in good company LOL.

She is in good company! I'm team trope no matter what the trope it is. Tropes are tools; it's when they're in excess for anything that it gets to be a bit too much. Unfortunately, that "too muchness" usually ends up squarely on the shoulders of protagonists, love interests, and original characters in fanfics. So you want your love interest to be a MPDG? Cool. Just make sure that's not all she is, basically. I'm sure you assumed that was a general you, of course.

[nicksgal]

Subversive names can be perfect sometimes.  I remember Kelly's Not Your Average Cinderella Story, where the female lead hated her Mary Sue name Cinderella and was the complete opposite of what you'd expect a Cinderella to be.  That was a good example.

Aya is a pretty name, but it does sound more Mary Sue than Minako.  It's too short to be a Mary Sue name though.

Yes, that's a great example! Plus the added lampshading, so funny. Kelly was great at those twist retells of stories.

Give a kid that Mary Sue baggage, not a character, haha. I wonder if all the "Mary Sue" characteristic s are the same or if they've changed over the years. I think there used to be general agreed upon things across fandoms and then some fandom specific ones, of course.

[RokofAges75]

Oh! Before I forget again, speaking of leg choppage... I had a conversation yesterday about the dangers of self diagnosing on google. One of my friends was talking about how when she injured her ankle and google said it might be bone cancer (it's not). And I said, "Yeah don't self diagnose on google, but you could totally have bone cancer in your ankle." (I assume because of Broken) Then she started talking about a time she fell while ice skating and bruised her ribs and google also said it was bone cancer and she said, "I was so worried that they would have to cut out a rib, but my doctor said bone cancer just isn't that common in ribs." And the first thing I said (which got some odd looks) was "Rib choppage! Oh noes!" But I laughed so hard. Then the second thing was, "I'm sure it's way less common than bone cancer in a limb, but I have a friend who I'm sure would know the answer." And she thought I meant my BFF who is a nurse and I said, "Oh her too. I meant another friend who likes medical drama, but you're right [BFF] might be the better person to ask." I'm still not convinced, I was sure you would know the answer off hand and my BFF would probably have to look it up, haha.

LOL!  Your friend sounds like me.  Cancer is always a possibility when you Google symptoms!  I don't think bone cancer is as common in ribs as it is in limbs.  I doubt it would start in the ribs, but it could probably spread there from other places.  Rib choppage, oh noes!  LMAO I love that you said that out loud!

She is in good company! I'm team trope no matter what the trope it is. Tropes are tools; it's when they're in excess for anything that it gets to be a bit too much. Unfortunately, that "too muchness" usually ends up squarely on the shoulders of protagonists, love interests, and original characters in fanfics. So you want your love interest to be a MPDG? Cool. Just make sure that's not all she is, basically. I'm sure you assumed that was a general you, of course.

Yep, absolutely!  I read the article about MPDG on TV Tropes, and it said it's mainly if the girl only exists to make the brooding protagonist happy and has no personal life goals herself.  In Broken, Claire pretty much did just exist to support brooding Nick, but when she got promoted to main character status in BMS, she had her own goals, especially after she broke up with Nick - but that's when some of my readers stopped liking her.  So maybe she was better off as a MPDG LOL. 

Fanfic is a little different, though, because most readers just want to read about the Boys and don't care about original characters, especially when they're not interacting with one of the Boys.  From a reader's perspective, I get it.  Even in stories where I really like the original female lead, I still prefer reading scenes with a BSB in them to scenes that are just about her.

I wonder if all the "Mary Sue" characteristic s are the same or if they've changed over the years. I think there used to be general agreed upon things across fandoms and then some fandom specific ones, of course.

I think the idea that Mary Sue is this unrealisticall y perfect female character who is adored by all the other characters is universal across fandoms, but each fandom has its own specific Mary Sue tropes.  In the BSB fandom, Mary Sue often has musical talent so she can become the opening act or backup dancer or band member, whereas in fantasy fandoms, she would have unique powers and be some kind of Chosen One.

[nicksgal]

LOL!  Your friend sounds like me.  Cancer is always a possibility when you Google symptoms!  I don't think bone cancer is as common in ribs as it is in limbs.  I doubt it would start in the ribs, but it could probably spread there from other places.  Rib choppage, oh noes!  LMAO I love that you said that out loud!

That was what I said, it can probably spread there, but probably doesn't start there. Also if you fell while ice skating and they didn't hurt before that, it's probably not cancer. I'd assume. I loved it and hated it, because it was a perfect time to say it, but for them it's noodle incident and not the perfect joke at the perfect time, haha.

Yep, absolutely!  I read the article about MPDG on TV Tropes, and it said it's mainly if the girl only exists to make the brooding protagonist happy and has no personal life goals herself.  In Broken, Claire pretty much did just exist to support brooding Nick, but when she got promoted to main character status in BMS, she had her own goals, especially after she broke up with Nick - but that's when some of my readers stopped liking her.  So maybe she was better off as a MPDG LOL.

Fanfic is a little different, though, because most readers just want to read about the Boys and don't care about original characters, especially when they're not interacting with one of the Boys.  From a reader's perspective, I get it.  Even in stories where I really like the original female lead, I still prefer reading scenes with a BSB in them to scenes that are just about her.

So rude of Claire to break up with Nick in his story! How dare she get character development! Just kidding! I say a character that grows is always better than a character who doesn't and it was better for Claire to have her own goals besides supporting brooding Nick.

Also true, we're all here reading and writing fanfic to care about the Boys in the story, but some stories just need other characters too. I almost think that's why the other characters need to be more interesting and not flat support characters if they're there. But I get that "when can we get back to the Boys" feeling too.

I think the idea that Mary Sue is this unrealisticall y perfect female character who is adored by all the other characters is universal across fandoms, but each fandom has its own specific Mary Sue tropes.  In the BSB fandom, Mary Sue often has musical talent so she can become the opening act or backup dancer or band member, whereas in fantasy fandoms, she would have unique powers and be some kind of Chosen One.

You're right on all of that, especially if she's a chosen one when there's already a chosen one in the source material.

I never stumbled on any, but now I'm wondering if there were ever any "sixth Backstreet Boy" Gary Stu stories. That would have been an adventure to read.

[RokofAges75]

Also true, we're all here reading and writing fanfic to care about the Boys in the story, but some stories just need other characters too. I almost think that's why the other characters need to be more interesting and not flat support characters if they're there. But I get that "when can we get back to the Boys" feeling too.

It wasn't until I tried writing a slash that I realized that may be one reason why slash is popular - it lets you read/write romance without original characters, thus making it totally BSB-centered.  (I agree that some stories do need original characters, though.)

I never stumbled on any, but now I'm wondering if there were ever any "sixth Backstreet Boy" Gary Stu stories. That would have been an adventure to read.

LOL!  I can't think of any offhand either.  I read some suspense stories back in the day where there was a guy trying to take out one of the Boys so he could replace him in the group, but those characters were villains, not Gary Stus.

[nicksgal]

It wasn't until I tried writing a slash that I realized that may be one reason why slash is popular - it lets you read/write romance without original characters, thus making it totally BSB-centered.  (I agree that some stories do need original characters, though.)

LOL!  I can't think of any offhand either.  I read some suspense stories back in the day where there was a guy trying to take out one of the Boys so he could replace him in the group, but those characters were villains, not Gary Stus.

That's definitely one of the reasons! When I was younger, I felt like I always had a hard time not adding original characters unless it was a shorter story. I fall victim so often to the "must have loads and loads of characters" plan for stories. I think that Nick is Brian's guardian angel story would be best as an all Boy one though. I might have a loophole idea that I'll need to pick your brain on later. I'll just do it now while I'm thinking about it.

I read a few of those too! I always wondered why the other guys would be like, "Oh, you killed our friend, yup, come join the band!" Like it's the secret entrance ticket or something...

[RokofAges75]

I might have a loophole idea that I'll need to pick your brain on later. I'll just do it now while I'm thinking about it.

I read a few of those too! I always wondered why the other guys would be like, "Oh, you killed our friend, yup, come join the band!" Like it's the secret entrance ticket or something...

Pick away!

LOL!  Well, in the ones I read, they didn't make it that obvious.  The one I remember best was "Trapped" by Jenna, where the guy's sister (who was a doctor) made Brian crash his car and then kept him sedated with drugs and convinced the other guys he had severe brain damage so they would need to replace him.  Then she suggested her brother as the replacement.

[nicksgal]

Pick away!

Did and did. Can't give away my ideas to too many people, you know. 

LOL!  Well, in the ones I read, they didn't make it that obvious.  The one I remember best was "Trapped" by Jenna, where the guy's sister (who was a doctor) made Brian crash his car and then kept him sedated with drugs and convinced the other guys he had severe brain damage so they would need to replace him.  Then she suggested her brother as the replacement.

"Since Brian has severe brain damage and you can't possibly go on with only four of you, my brother sings and dances." haha!

The heyday of fanfic was something else. Does it still get busier when the guys get busier or is it just increasingly quiet? I wonder if that happens to other fandoms. Like, do Harry Potter fanfic writers just stop writing fanfic now that it's been finished for however many years?

[RokofAges75]

Did and did. Can't give away my ideas to too many people, you know.  

Just messaged you back!  It sounds like my kind of story! LOL

"Since Brian has severe brain damage and you can't possibly go on with only four of you, my brother sings and dances." haha!

LMAO Sounds legit, right?

The heyday of fanfic was something else. Does it still get busier when the guys get busier or is it just increasingly quiet? I wonder if that happens to other fandoms. Like, do Harry Potter fanfic writers just stop writing fanfic now that it's been finished for however many years?

It used to get busier when the guys got busier.  This site was active during the TIU album and tour era, NKOTBSB, and IAWLT.  But I didn't notice that same surge here when DNA came out.  I think that may have more to do with many of the old AC regulars moving on and reviews being turned off than a general decline in fanfic writing across the fandom.  AO3 is a lot more active.  It's still not anywhere near what it was back in the 90s and early 2000s, but I think that is mainly the result of the fandom growing up and moving on.

As far as I know, Harry Potter fanfic is still alive and well.  That's a huge fandom.  I've never really gotten into the fanfic side of it, but the fandom in general is still going strong.

When I posted my BSB/ER crossover last year and included the ER character tags on AO3, I was surprised to see how many people are writing ER fanfic these days, 12 years since the show ended.  And the characters that are most popular to write about are not the characters I would have expected, not who I would have pegged as the fan favorites.  AO3 is a strange place LOL.

[nicksgal]

Just messaged you back!  It sounds like my kind of story! LOL

Oh, I know. Little column A, little column B here.

LMAO Sounds legit, right?

I think those are my favorite leaps in fanfic. The "well of course this makes sense" moments that do not make sense at all but just get kind of hand waved. I can't think of others right now, but I feel like it's the magic of fanfic.

It used to get busier when the guys got busier.  This site was active during the TIU album and tour era, NKOTBSB, and IAWLT.  But I didn't notice that same surge here when DNA came out.  I think that may have more to do with many of the old AC regulars moving on and reviews being turned off than a general decline in fanfic writing across the fandom.  AO3 is a lot more active.  It's still not anywhere near what it was back in the 90s and early 2000s, but I think that is mainly the result of the fandom growing up and moving on.

As far as I know, Harry Potter fanfic is still alive and well.  That's a huge fandom.  I've never really gotten into the fanfic side of it, but the fandom in general is still going strong.

When I posted my BSB/ER crossover last year and included the ER character tags on AO3, I was surprised to see how many people are writing ER fanfic these days, 12 years since the show ended.  And the characters that are most popular to write about are not the characters I would have expected, not who I would have pegged as the fan favorites.  AO3 is a strange place LOL.

I can see how the lack of reviews would have caused an exodus. Since they're not there, I do look at my little chapter counter for PNecklace and when I see a little "1" pop up next to the newest chapter, I know that Tracy's reading it and it makes me smile. I wonder if it happens more in the RPF fanfic circles than the fictional ones. Like are NKOTB fans still writing fanfic? What about NSYNC fans? Also now I want to know how many NSYNC fanfics has BSB as villains? I assume so many. Was it more or less than the ones where Lou Perlman was the villain?

I felt like they would, I mostly picked it because I knew you might have a straight answer for me rather than speculating.

That's interesting that it's still going strong! How did the ER fans feel about the BSB crossover? I would think it would be the original cast, but I'm guessing it's not?

[FrickingKaos]

Today's questions are all about characters!

How do you come up with character names for your stories? (Other than the obvious, "Well, Nick is "Nick.").  I usually don’t really put thoughts into names, but lets go with a example where I did. In Finding Carter, I chose Howie’s two cronies or “assistants” names from Pokémon. Brock is the one who follows Ash Ketchum on his adventures, and Gary is Ash’s rival in the series. Their frat was Phi Beta Kappa or “Pika” for short, another Pokémon reference to Pikachu. I don’t know if any of my readers caught onto that.

Crystal’s name came from the fact that I gave her blue eyes.

Nicks kids, Peter and Andrew were from Disney movies. It’s explained by Nick in the story but Peter was for Peter Pan because as Nick’s first child...having a child was part of Nick finally letting go of his childhood and growing up. So it was kind of a metaphor. Andrew was named after Andy from Toy Story, who also ended up growing up.

Nick’s wife Laura was directly inspired by Lauren.


I can’t really think of any other circumstance where names were chosen for a purpose. I usually use names of people that I know.

What are the essential characteristic s of a hero you can root for? Are there certain aspects of the Boys you play up if they're in the hero role?

Hm. Loyalty, bravery of course. Nick is usually my hero in my stories. I like that he’s so easy to write due to his history, and that he’s overcome and grown as a person.

What do you do to get inside your characters' heads?

I like to watch BSB interviews, read interviews, and other things that will get me into their personality off stage.

If you could be a character from one of your stories, who would it be and why?

I don’t really think any of my characters are like me, aside from Nick in If I Knew Then. He’s still navigating who he is and trying to figure his life out.

What's the trickiest thing about writing characters of the opposite gender?.

I don’t find it very trick to be honest.

Does one of your characters hold a special place in your heart? If so, why?

Nick in Finding Carter. He was on a journey in that story and it felt so good to see him find what he was looking for, which is his family.

Now describe that character in three words.

Loyal, determined, unsure.

Which of your characters do you relate to the most? Again, Nick in If I Knew Then for the same reason i stated before.

Do you often put aspects of yourself into your characters?.

Nick in the Nick and Amanda series is very much like me.

And just for fun:

Go back to that character you said holds a special place in your heart and think about the other characters in their story. They can only use each character once, so which character from their story would they pick to:

a. be trapped in the wilderness with? (can be frigid or tropical wilderness) Why?

Nick would probably want to pick Brian because Brian grew up on a farm and knows how to live off the land. So does Kevin. Kevin raised him. So maybe he would actually go with Kevin. Nick in Finding Carter would not be able to fend for himself, especially hunt for food. I just keep picturing the scene with him trying to milk a cow and thinking the rooster was going to kill him xD

b. spend the night in a haunted house with? Why?  Nick would most likely choose Brian. Brian is braver than he is. Well, except for when his daughter was born in the spin off called Finding Littrell.

c. have for a boss? Why? He’d choose AJ because AJ runs the fraternity and is good at leading.

d. pull off a heist with? Why? Nick would pick Howie, not because he would be good at it or anything but he would be great at distracting the police so he could get away.

e. be on the Amazing Race with? Why?   He’d choose Brian because he loves to go on adventures with Brian.

And because these are fun anyway, just answer for yourself with the Boys. You can only use each one once.

Which Boy would you pick to:

a. be trapped in the wilderness with? (can be frigid or tropical wilderness) Why?  I would choose Kevin too. Kevin lives in the mountains and shit half of the time anyway. He’s like a modern day Paul Bunyan. We’d be good.

b. spend the night in a haunted house with? Why?  Nick because he would be hilarious and find all the ghosts which I am really interested in. We would have a blast in there.

c. have for a boss? Why?  Howie because he has great business sense.

d. pull off a heist with? Why?  AJ because he’s resourceful, and can be a great distraction to everyone while I do the actual theft.

e. be on the Amazing Race with? Why?  I’d pick Brian because he’s athletic, and I think we could put our heads together to win.

[RokofAges75]

That's interesting that it's still going strong! How did the ER fans feel about the BSB crossover? I would think it would be the original cast, but I'm guessing it's not?

My story did well on AO3, but I'm not sure how many of the reviews I got from people I didn't know were from ER fans vs. BSB fans.

The most popular character in ER fanfic seems to be Kerry Weaver... who is almost an original cast member, but not quite (she came in during Season 2).  Still, I never thought of her as a fan favorite, so it was surprising to see so many stories about her and her various girlfriends from the later seasons of the show.  It would be like if BSB fanfic was dominated by Howie stories LOL.

[mare]

Oh and to answer your question from the first page, Dee about why otters? i love them! That's pretty much it. If I can't own one, having one as my spirit animal is the closest I'll ever get.