Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[nicksgal]

Kudos to you for this editing adventure you've embarked on!  The only time I've gone back to a story that was already posted online and drastically revised it (more actual rewriting than just fixing typos and other tiny mistakes) was with Code Blue, and that was a terrible experience.  I may have made the story a bit better, but it also killed my inspiration for it, which never really recovered.  The fact that it was a collaboration probably made it harder to keep the momentum going, but I vowed I would never do that again with a fanfic.  It would be different if I was trying to get a manuscript published, as I know there's a ton of significant editing required with that.

I've actually had the most fun when I hacked and slashed or wrote new things that I glossed over originally. It's the tiny editing that's killing me slowly because what's there is essentially what I wanted to say, but I want to say it better, cleaner, and more exciting than I did initially.

I think it would be hard to edit a collaboration all by yourself even if it's already been written for a while. It loses the feel of a collaboration at that point (the different perspectives and ideas), that would likely also improve the edit.

If I remember correctly, when you're publishing, something like 80% of what you write ends up being editing. At that point, you're more edits than original. I think there's an author (though can't remember who at this point) that said they write every novel twice. First they write it, then they erase the entire thing and rewrite it from memory. And then they edit that version. Though it might be chapter by chapter, not necessarily writing the whole novel and then rewriting it because that sounds like an exercise in torture.

I've never done that. Could be interesting for a shorter story, but not something I'd want to commit to for PNecklace or something like that!

I also agree that there's value in trying anything new, even if it doesn't pan out.  Experimenting helps us grow and gives us more experience to draw on in the future.  A history of BSB fanfic sounds cool, but I could see how that would get overwhelming!

Good luck with your sex scene!

That's me. Great at ideas, terrible at execution! Anybody wants them, take them.

Thanks! I will do my best to not laugh the whole time and not make it terrible. No promises.

[FrickingKaos]

 
See, I'm doing this right now for If I Knew Then. I've written about them on tour before. In Weird World. But this is the first time I've ever followed an actual timeline because most of the time I don't have outlines of what I want to happen in my story. With this one I'm using a real timeline of actual events and it's helping a little bit, but I just have to fill in the rest with dialogue and whatnot. I feel like the timeline has helped tremendously to make the story more realistic. I have a general idea of what I'd like to happen. It's just getting there lol.

It definitely required a lot of research, but it was a fun challenge for that story to see how much I could make my fictional storyline fit with real events.  I wouldn't want to do that all the time though.


That is probably a good way to plan.  Sometimes I wish my stories were more character-driven.  I tend to either gently guide my characters in the direction I want them to go or hurl obstacles at them until they're forced to go that way LOL.  They don't usually get to decide.


I definitely tend to focus most on Nick and Brian.  I've written stories where I alternate between different characters' point of view in a set way, or like in Song for the Undead, we made sure each character got a chapter within each ten-chapter arc, but in Bethlehem, I've just been trying to decide which perspective works best for each particular scene.  So it's not perfectly balanced, but each boy has had his moment in the spotlight.

Aww, This Is Us.  Yeah, Secrets was a little like the pilot of that show, where you don't realize the storylines are taking place in totally different time periods or how they'll connect until the end.  It was a hard story to write, but I'm happy with how it turned out.

[RokofAges75]

I think it would be hard to edit a collaboration all by yourself even if it's already been written for a while. It loses the feel of a collaboration at that point (the different perspectives and ideas), that would likely also improve the edit.

Yeah, it was a disaster.  I talked my original co-writer into revising it because I thought we could make it so much better than the original version, but she bailed on me shortly after we started.  So I recruited more co-writers to help me finish, and we basically wasted all our motivation on rewriting what was already there and then ran out of steam before we got around to continuing the story from that point.  This was my first time learning that huge collaborations don't last long, a lesson I would learn again with 00Carter LOL.  It might work out better if I was trying to revise one of my own stories by myself, but I just don't have the motivation.  If I ever did, it would be with one of my very old stories that had a good idea but poor execution.  I don't think I would ever try it with something like Broken that has flaws, but was well-liked by readers.  It would feel too much like George Lucas constantly going back and changing the original Star Wars trilogy.  Just leave it alone!  (I am not comparing Broken to Star Wars by any means. That is just the first example that came to mind of a writer taking something that people liked and messing with it much later.)

What I've found myself sort of unintentionall y doing instead is taking ideas from my very old stories and writing new stories that take that basic idea and twist it into something totally different.  That has been more fun for me because I can explore some of the same topics that interested me back then, but write about them with more depth and maturity than I could have as a teenager.

If I remember correctly, when you're publishing, something like 80% of what you write ends up being editing. At that point, you're more edits than original. I think there's an author (though can't remember who at this point) that said they write every novel twice. First they write it, then they erase the entire thing and rewrite it from memory. And then they edit that version. Though it might be chapter by chapter, not necessarily writing the whole novel and then rewriting it because that sounds like an exercise in torture.

That whole thing sounds like an exercise in torture to me! LOL  This is why I will never publish a novel unless I self-publish it because I can never see myself committing to that level of editing.

Mare, how much editing did you have to do with Mel's Tree, and what was that like?

Thanks! I will do my best to not laugh the whole time and not make it terrible. No promises.

I have written several sex scenes, and I think I laughed through every one.  Especially the slashy ones!  So much giggling.  And they're probably all terrible!  But I tried LOL.

[nicksgal]

Sure!  It wasn't like "Saw" leg choppage LOL; he lost his leg to bone cancer.  Nothing inappropriate about that.  Actually, Lurlene McDaniel, who was my favorite YA author as a tween, published a novel during that same time period when I was thinking of rewriting Broken about a swimmer who had his leg amputated due to cancer and later committed suicide.  Broken at least had a happy ending LOL.

Editing to add I also read a fantastic YA novel last year that I almost forgot about called "The Running Dream" that was about a track star who loses her leg after a car accident and learns to run again with a prosthesis.  It took me right back to researching for Broken.  But yeah, choppage can and has been done in YA fiction.

I guess I always want to remember it as "Saw" leg choppage, even though I know it's not. OMG, poor Nick if he had the cancer, then the leg choppage, then the car accident, then the lung transplant, and then committed suicide. I'm laughing, but it feels so mean!

I remember hearing that one was good! I always love a good YA novel even as an adult.

I think you could keep the characters in a band if you changed the names.  A boyband might still be too obvious, but a rock band or something would be less recognizable.  Personality traits and even physical descriptions would be less obvious, especially to readers who weren't BSB fans and didn't know it was originally written as a fanfic.  I think it'd be much easier to de-Backstreetize a story that doesn't revolve around them being famous and touring and stuff, so a fantasy might be more doable.  Is that what you're hoping to do with PBox?

I've toyed with it as it's spent more and more time in my head/heart, but especially after Nick came running back to gnaw at my brain and as I've been editing. Without giving too much away on my future plot plans, a lot of the entire story (PBox et al. if you will) and its central themes revolve around them actually being boy bands even though most of it's set in a fantastical world. Like PBox was actually about the idea [spoiler ahead, skip it if you care about being spoiled and don't want to know! If you don't care, go ahead and look at it.] [spoiler]"why does the media treat boy bands like 'your time is up and now you're locked up like monsters and no one really remembers you' even when that boy band says 'hey, as long as there's music, there's value in all music, even after it's forgotten'."[/spoiler] I give away a lot about PBox, but I feel like that might a spoiler more than who lives and dies at this point. And I know it's not your thing, so have all the spoils! That and a lot of the beginning has some suspicious seeming similarities with a manga that one of my friends handed me after I let them read some of PBox saying "I think you'll like this." And at the time I was like "Oh no!" and then "Oh well, it's a fanfic and I can always just say the truth, that I hadn't read it at the time." But if I did try to publish it, I would definitely have to overhaul some aspects of the beginning a lot for that reason. That and minimizing all the song imagery would be a hassle!

But as I've said, toyed. And I definitely thought about asking how it went for anyone who's done it. But again, I didn't want to derail my progress at this time and I also can't imagine Nick as anyone other than Nick and a "Nickolas" is a dead giveaway (versus a Nicholas). Also my poor husband would be so confused why my published novel has his name for the main character, not even considering Nick Carter... But I think if I did, I'd go for his appearance over name, since as I said both simultaneously seems suspect.

[RokofAges75]

See, I'm doing this right now for If I Knew Then. I've written about them on tour before. In Weird World. But this is the first time I've ever followed an actual timeline because most of the time I don't have outlines of what I want to happen in my story. With this one I'm using a real timeline of actual events and it's helping a little bit, but I just have to fill in the rest with dialogue and whatnot. I feel like the timeline has helped tremendously to make the story more realistic. I have a general idea of what I'd like to happen. It's just getting there lol.

I love it!  I've always enjoyed realistic fanfics that incorporate a lot of real life BSB events, and this one being such a throwback to 1998 makes it really fun to read.  I know stories that aren't set in a specific time period can seem more timeless, but I love the nostalgia of reading a story set in the past.

[nicksgal]

See, I'm doing this right now for If I Knew Then. I've written about them on tour before. In Weird World. But this is the first time I've ever followed an actual timeline because most of the time I don't have outlines of what I want to happen in my story. With this one I'm using a real timeline of actual events and it's helping a little bit, but I just have to fill in the rest with dialogue and whatnot. I feel like the timeline has helped tremendously to make the story more realistic. I have a general idea of what I'd like to happen. It's just getting there lol.

I see that you might be a pantser, circling back to a previous question. I think different things work for different people! So if it helps you, then I think it's worthwile.

Also, welcome to the thread Tracy! Good to see someone joining besides just Julie and I catching up on several years of discussion about writing. And the occasional Mare pop in.

[RokofAges75]

I guess I always want to remember it as "Saw" leg choppage, even though I know it's not. OMG, poor Nick if he had the cancer, then the leg choppage, then the car accident, then the lung transplant, and then committed suicide. I'm laughing, but it feels so mean!

I remember hearing that one was good! I always love a good YA novel even as an adult.

That may be because of my avatar.

LOL That sounds more like something from 1000 Ways to Kill Nick Carter... which, if you haven't come across yet, is a round robin Rose started back in 2011 that could always use new contributors.  http://absolutechaos.net/viewstory.php?sid=10669  We're still 930 deaths short of our goal!

Yeah, The Running Dream was a great read!

That and a lot of the beginning has some suspicious seeming similarities with a manga that one of my friends handed me after I let them read some of PBox saying "I think you'll like this." And at the time I was like "Oh no!" and then "Oh well, it's a fanfic and I can always just say the truth, that I hadn't read it at the time." But if I did try to publish it, I would definitely have to overhaul some aspects of the beginning a lot for that reason. That and minimizing all the song imagery would be a hassle!

But as I've said, toyed. And I definitely thought about asking how it went for anyone who's done it. But again, I didn't want to derail my progress at this time and I also can't imagine Nick as anyone other than Nick and a "Nickolas" is a dead giveaway (versus a Nicholas). Also my poor husband would be so confused why my published novel has his name for the main character, not even considering Nick Carter... But I think if I did, I'd go for his appearance over name, since as I said both simultaneously seems suspect.

I just read a thread on Reddit the other day about that - the OP was worried his/her idea was too similar to other books/movies/whatever.  The basic advice that other posters gave was that no idea is truly original, and we all (published authors included) draw inspiration from other sources.  It's only plagiarism if you directly copy one source.  If you write something that is sort of similar to several other things combined, no problem!  That was reassuring to me because I am definitely inspired by what I read and watch.  But if you never even read that manga before writing PBox, then you definitely didn't copy anything.  You and that author just had a similar idea, and that's okay.

I don't think Nickolas is a dead giveaway, unless the other characters are named Brian, AJ, Howie, and Kevin.  Carter is not the only one who spells his name with a K instead of an H.  Also, I love that you married a Nick!

[nicksgal]

Yeah, it was a disaster.  I talked my original co-writer into revising it because I thought we could make it so much better than the original version, but she bailed on me shortly after we started.  So I recruited more co-writers to help me finish, and we basically wasted all our motivation on rewriting what was already there and then ran out of steam before we got around to continuing the story from that point.  This was my first time learning that huge collaborations don't last long, a lesson I would learn again with 00Carter LOL.

Was that back in the original days of Code Blue or more recently? Oh 00Carter. You always made me laugh. Wish I could go back to 2008 and write some more of that again.

I don't think I would ever try it with something like Broken that has flaws, but was well-liked by readers.  It would feel too much like George Lucas constantly going back and changing the original Star Wars trilogy.  Just leave it alone!  (I am not comparing Broken to Star Wars by any means. That is just the first example that came to mind of a writer taking something that people liked and messing with it much later.)

Go ahead and compare Broken to Star Wars, haha! That was my fear with PBox, but I feel like I haven't messed with it too much in a bad way? Maybe I have. Yo Tracy, you read the original PBox and said it was a favorite, have I messed with it in a bad way? I'm asking and I don't know if I'll care if the answer is "yes." I think it's especially weird that he continues to mess with them when he's not even writing or directing any of it anymore. I think I'd mind less if he was as heavily involved with it as he was with the original trilogy. Confession time, Attack of the Clones was so bad, I have seen none of them since.

What I've found myself sort of unintentionall y doing instead is taking ideas from my very old stories and writing new stories that take that basic idea and twist it into something totally different.  That has been more fun for me because I can explore some of the same topics that interested me back then, but write about them with more depth and maturity than I could have as a teenager.

That whole thing sounds like an exercise in torture to me! LOL  This is why I will never publish a novel unless I self-publish it because I can never see myself committing to that level of editing.

I have written several sex scenes, and I think I laughed through every one.  Especially the slashy ones!  So much giggling.  And they're probably all terrible!  But I tried LOL.

I think that's a great way to do it because there's always more than one was to tell a similar story.

I think self publishing versus publishing house publishing would depend on the story for me. I honestly don't know if I'd want to put the effort into self publishing? All the other product distribution type things that go into that sound like the headache to me.

You tried! Maybe I'll laugh about it without regrets then!

[nicksgal]

I love the nostalgia of reading a story set in the past.

Same! Especially for BSB fanfics. Take me back to the time when we all thought they lived in the same house in Florida together a la Big Brother.

OMG, hilarious story idea. Big Brother, but it's only the Backstreet Boys. You could call it Backstreet Brothers, haha. Someone must have done that already.

[nicksgal]

That may be because of my avatar.

LOL That sounds more like something from 1000 Ways to Kill Nick Carter... which, if you haven't come across yet, is a round robin Rose started back in 2011 that could always use new contributors.  http://absolutechaos.net/viewstory.php?sid=10669  We're still 930 deaths short of our goal!

You know, I think that has something to do with it and the fact that someone once said you were "she likes to chop people" instead of just "she writes Broken/BMS," haha. So in my head, it's always more intense chopping, even though, again, I know it's not.

I love that it's called "1000 Ways to Kill Nick Carter" and there's only 70 of them. At this point, might "100 Ways" be more achievable? haha Is a way included that I've done that isn't there already? Because coming up with a whole new way sounds like a challenge...

I just read a thread on Reddit the other day about that - the OP was worried his/her idea was too similar to other books/movies/whatever.  The basic advice that other posters gave was that no idea is truly original, and we all (published authors included) draw inspiration from other sources.  It's only plagiarism if you directly copy one source.  If you write something that is sort of similar to several other things combined, no problem!  That was reassuring to me because I am definitely inspired by what I read and watch.  But if you never even read that manga before writing PBox, then you definitely didn't copy anything.  You and that author just had a similar idea, and that's okay.

I don't think Nickolas is a dead giveaway, unless the other characters are named Brian, AJ, Howie, and Kevin.  Carter is not the only one who spells his name with a K instead of an H.  Also, I love that you married a Nick!

You're right on that which was part of my "oh well" with it at the time, like Star Wars is basically samurais in space. I think publishing though, there's too many similarities that I would feel bad doing that to one of my favorite manga artists, and worse yet on the whole copyright infringement biz. Poor PBox, I'd feel so sad if I got sued over it, especially having read it now and knowing that it has the potential to be an issue.

Yeah, but a blond haired blue eyed Nickolas in a boy band would be a dead giveaway, I think, even without running around with AJ, Brian, Kevin, and Howie. Especially if he had luscious locks of 90's hair.

My MOH said at my bridal shower, "The universe works in mysterious ways. If you really wanted to marry Nick Carter, you should have stopped being on a first name basis with him and been more specific." haha

[RokofAges75]

Was that back in the original days of Code Blue or more recently? Oh 00Carter. You always made me laugh. Wish I could go back to 2008 and write some more of that again.

It was a long time ago.  Code Blue's original run was like 2002-2003.  Then I went on to write Broken and got better at writing medical drama, so when I came back to Code Blue, I was like, "Oh, we can totally improve this."  I think the big rewrite started in 2006, and the story was last updated in 2007.

I miss 00Carter too.  That one has never been officially discontinued.  The last episode we posted was a Christmas one in 2012, which I think ended up being written by just Rose, Lore, and me because everyone else had bailed by then.  We have two more episodes started, but I think it just got to a point where we got frustrated with it and let it fizzle out as we moved on to other projects.  But I have such fond memories of the good old days with that story.

I think it's especially weird that he continues to mess with with when he's not even writing or directing any of it anymore. I think I'd mind less if he was as heavily involved with it as he was with the original trilogy. Confession time, Attack of the Clones was so bad, I have seen none of them since.

I hope he's not still messing with them, but he made a bunch of changes after the prequel series came out that a lot of people hated.  For example, at the end of Return of the Jedi (which is my favorite SW movie), Darth Vader does a really cheesy "No... noooo!" as he turns on the Emperor to save Luke.  It's so cringe-worthy and ruins an otherwise great moment.  They also replaced the original Ewok "yub nub" song at the end with instrumental music and added scenes of people celebrating around the galaxy, which is not necessarily bad, but I miss the Ewok song.  And then when Luke sees Obi-Wan, Yoda, and Anakin as Force Ghosts at the end as he's burning his dad's body, it's now Hayden Christensen instead of the old Anakin.  That is the change I mind the least because at least then Anakin is recognizable.

The only SW movie I really can't stand is The Phantom Menace.  Between annoying Jar Jar Binks and the bad acting of young Anakin, it's hard to watch.  Attack of the Clones has terrible, cheesy dialogue, but I found it entertaining.  I actually love Revenge of the Sith; that is the best of the prequel trilogy by far.  I liked the sequel trilogy too, but the originals will always be the best.

[RokofAges75]

Same! Especially for BSB fanfics. Take me back to the time when we all thought they lived in the same house in Florida together a la Big Brother.

OMG, hilarious story idea. Big Brother, but it's only the Backstreet Boys. You could call it Backstreet Brothers, haha. Someone must have done that already.

Yes!  I don't know how closely you followed them in 2012, but do you know they rented a house in London and lived together for a month that summer to write for IAWLT?  It was so fanfic of them! LOL

[RokofAges75]

You know, I think that has something to do with it and the fact that someone once said you were "she likes to chop people" instead of just "she writes Broken/BMS," haha. So in my head, it's always more intense chopping, even though, again, I know it's not.

I think the avy came after that horror challenge story I wrote in like 2008 where they all lost limbs or heads.  That was definitely more Saw level choppage, and that's what gave me the title of Choppage Queen.

My MOH said at my bridal shower, "The universe works in mysterious ways. If you really wanted to marry Nick Carter, you should have stopped being on a first name basis with him and been more specific." haha

LOL!

[nicksgal]

It was a long time ago. I think the big rewrite started in 2006, and the story was last updated in 2007.

I miss 00Carter too.  That one has never been officially discontinued.  The last episode we posted was a Christmas one in 2012. But I have such fond memories of the good old days with that story.

I would say I was surprised Rose roped you into 00Carter (other than her being so convincing, so I'm not) because didn't it start right around that time? I'm sure the collaboration-based frustration would have been high.

Four to five years? That's a pretty good run for a collaboration. I guess the nice thing about either of those are that they're only vaguely episode to episode plot so if the urge to jump back in ever struck, it wouldn't be too hard. I say that not knowing how many chapters 00Carter ended up with.

I hope he's not still messing with them, but he made a bunch of changes after the prequel series came out that a lot of people hated.  I liked the sequel trilogy too, but the originals will always be the best.

Didn't he add a bunch of weird CGI to the originals too? I always liked Return of the Jedi.

[nicksgal]

Yes!  I don't know how closely you followed them in 2012, but do you know they rented a house in London and lived together for a month that summer to write for IAWLT?  It was so fanfic of them! LOL

I did not follow them that close in 2012 because I was at a point of trying to separate the Boys from being active in the fandom and it was a bit hard to reconcile, so we took a tiny break from each other until the album came out. But, I think I remember them saying that in the documentary? I know I knew it from somewhere because I for sure tiny squeed when I found that out whenever that was.

I wonder how many other things they've done that are more fanfic of them?

I think the avy came after that horror challenge story I wrote in like 2008 where they all lost limbs or heads.  That was definitely more Saw level choppage, and that's what gave me the title of Choppage Queen.

You had to live up to your reputation eventually and amoeba Nick needed to exist! Chop all their body parts.