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[RokofAges75]

I don't really have a line per se. I've covered death and suicide in my stories. Just about everything... I guess my line would be killing children too. Other than that nothing is off limits. I don't think I've ever killed a BSB in one of my stories except on the round Robin for Nick.

I had to edit this because I did kill off people in my story Take Me Home. I won't say who In case anyone decides to read because hello spoilers.

LOL How quickly we forget.

I think my only line at this point is killing real BSB kids.  I'm okay with killing wives and fictional children, and I will even give one of the real ones an incurable illness if it serves the plot, but actually killing them is crossing the line for me.  That's really all I've got; any other line I used to have has already been crossed LOL.

As long as you know what your line is, that's what's important. I was just trying to come up with examples.

Killing of the Boys is a fun adventure. I think anyone who says they're part of Team Dark has to do it at least once in a serious story. Unless that's your line!

I'm not opposed to killing off the Boys, but I understand why some authors are, for the same reason some people consider writing fanfic about real people in the first place crossing a line.  What if you put something like that out in the universe, and then it actually happened in real life?  That would be horrible.  I am not superstitious enough to believe anything we write could somehow curse the Boys in real life - at the end of the day, even if we are writing about real people, it's still fiction.  But then why would it bother me to kill off their real kids in a fictional story?  Maybe I am a little bit superstitious, or maybe it's just because they're innocent children and that seems worse than killing adult characters.

Have you guys ever crossed a clear line that you used to have?

[nicksgal]

Wow, good answer!

Glad you enjoyed it! I can justify just about any decision I've ever made with diatribes like this.

When I kill characters, I always have a reason besides wanting to make readers cry, and it feels like the right thing to do, even if it's depressing.  If it doesn't feel right for the story, I don't do it.

I'd venture to say that if anyone's only motivation for writing dark things is the reader reaction, then they are not Team Dark, they are Team Masochist. haha

I've always been a member of Team Dark, and my readers know it, but even I have written disclaimers for stories or chapters that I feel are particularly dark.  Nothing specific enough to be a spoiler, usually just a general warning that things are going to get heavy. I'm more likely to give a warning when my toes are on a line I haven't crossed before and I personally feel uncomfortable with what I'm writing.  But again, I think anyone who has read enough of my stories should not be too shocked by what I write at this point LOL.

That's interesting, I've never thought to give warnings on specific chapters because I don't want to spoil things. How do you go about giving a non-spoilery warning? I just kind of figure people know to except dark and depressing things from me, so nothing should be surprising. I tend to think that feeling uncomfortable is a good thing. It means you're doing something new.

In my current situation, both new stories I've started begin with something really bad happening that sets the events of the story in motion.  There may have been other options, but none that worked as well or had the same impact as what I ultimately went with.  The one I was working on this weekend is super depressing in the beginning, but will become more uplifting as it goes on... to the point that, as I realized today, I don't even know yet what the climax of the story will be.  I know how it will end, but the point when the problem is at its worst and about to be resolved seems like it will come too early in the story to be considered a climax.  So that's something I need to think more about, or maybe I will just keep writing what I do have planned and see where my characters take it from there.  That almost makes me feel like a plantser LOL.

Julie's considering becoming team Plantser and letting the characters decide? I am intrigued! I say keep on writing and see what happens. It's a fun new adventure for you. 

In seriousness, I wrote a whole story about how there's always hope in the dark. Sometimes things have to start from rock bottom to get to a good place and that's okay. Go with what has impact.

[nicksgal]

LOL How quickly we forget.

Time gets muddled together.

I'm not opposed to killing off the Boys, but I understand why some authors are, for the same reason some people consider writing fanfic about real people in the first place crossing a line.  What if you put something like that out in the universe, and then it actually happened in real life?  That would be horrible.  I am not superstitious enough to believe anything we write could somehow curse the Boys in real life - at the end of the day, even if we are writing about real people, it's still fiction.  But then why would it bother me to kill off their real kids in a fictional story?  Maybe I am a little bit superstitious, or maybe it's just because they're innocent children and that seems worse than killing adult characters.

What if Nick dated a decent lady instead of Paris Hilton? Glad we as a fandom didn't superstitiousl y summon that into the universe. Phew!   In all seriousness, I get it. You want to make sure you don't put bad juju on anyone, especially people you like/love/etcetera, but I like to save my superstitions for my football teams and not my writing. A story is just a story, unless you physically go out there and try to get real life to reenact said story. That's the line for me.

It's the innocent children thing for sure. That and they didn't decide to have a Backstreet Boy for a parent, it just happened. At least the wives chose to have a Backstreet Boy for a husband, though I don't like writing about them either.

On a side note, I would be stoked as hell if the Boys turned out to be demons with magic powers. Stoked. As. Hell.

Have you guys ever crossed a clear line that you used to have?

Probably? I'm sure when I was younger, I thought many times that whatever was too sad and decided not to write it. Then as I got older, I decided sad was more interesting. I can't think of anything specific though! I'd say I shy away from mental health things more than physical things. I'm thinking of that "BSB is all in Nick's head in a psychiatric ward" idea, but then PBox Nick is basically an amnesiac with PTSD, so...   Just gotta think long and hard about whatever it is first. Team Story!

Are they spoilers for PNecklace or a future story?

PBox/PNecklace/etcetera

Julie, was this your offer to contribute to my list as long as it wasn't something you were interested in reading down the line, btw?

[RokofAges75]

I'd venture to say that if anyone's only motivation for writing dark things is the reader reaction, then they are not Team Dark, they are Team Masochist. haha

LOL I definitely have my moments of being in Team Masochist too, as AJ can attest to (since he's apparently been living in my brain lately).  I appreciate shock value, but it still needs to make sense and serve a purpose.

That's interesting, I've never thought to give warnings on specific chapters because I don't want to spoil things. How do you go about giving a non-spoilery warning? I just kind of figure people know to except dark and depressing things from me, so nothing should be surprising. I tend to think that feeling uncomfortable is a good thing. It means you're doing something new.

Usually it's just a vague "This chapter's going to be intense" (or sad or dark or gross or weird or whatever adjective makes the most sense).  Just something to suggest that maybe this isn't one you want to read at work or around other people LOL.  Sometimes I give tissue warnings or "dangerously cheesy" warnings too.  No spoilers though.

I agree about feeling uncomfortable. Sakabelle/Steph has a quote on her signature here by Rainbow Rowell that I love.  “Write a lot. Write something you’re scared to write. That’s the best advice I can give: If you have an idea, and you can’t stop thinking about it, but something about it scares you half to death–WRITE THAT.”  My favorite stories I've written are the ones that pushed me out my comfort zone and that I was a little afraid to post.

Julie's considering becoming team Plantser and letting the characters decide? I am intrigued! I say keep on writing and see what happens. It's a fun new adventure for you. 

In seriousness, I wrote a whole story about how there's always hope in the dark. Sometimes things have to start from rock bottom to get to a good place and that's okay. Go with what has impact.

LOL That's my thought too.  It's not like there won't be plenty of other problems along the way, so maybe I don't need a dramatic climax.  Or maybe I'll come up with something when I get closer to that point.  I'm sure I will figure it out well before I get there, but it's kinda fun not knowing... gives me something to think about.  I like having things to think about when I can't actually sit down and write, like when I'm trying to fall asleep at night, getting ready for work in the morning, or driving to/from.  It helps to keep me inspired and takes my mind off real life problems.

[nicksgal]

LOL I definitely have my moments of being in Team Masochist too, as AJ can attest to (since he's apparently been living in my brain lately).  I appreciate shock value, but it still needs to make sense and serve a purpose.

You know, I don't think I've ever done anything just to be masochistic. Or where I thought being masochistic was a happy by-product. So now that AJ's living in your brain, what are you going to do with that?

Usually it's just a vague "This chapter's going to be intense" (or sad or dark or gross or weird or whatever adjective makes the most sense).  Just something to suggest that maybe this isn't one you want to read at work or around other people LOL.  Sometimes I give tissue warnings or "dangerously cheesy" warnings too.  No spoilers though.

I agree about feeling uncomfortable. Sakabelle/Steph has a quote on her signature here by Rainbow Rowell that I love.  “Write a lot. Write something you’re scared to write. That’s the best advice I can give: If you have an idea, and you can’t stop thinking about it, but something about it scares you half to death–WRITE THAT.”  My favorite stories I've written are the ones that pushed me out my comfort zone and that I was a little afraid to post.

Interesting. Do you put it in the body of the chapter or in an Author's Note?

I love that quote too. That's kind of how I felt about coming back to fanfic after so long (not necessarily scared to death about the content of the story, but scared to death about it in a different way), but I'm glad I did it.

LOL That's my thought too.  It's not like there won't be plenty of other problems along the way, so maybe I don't need a dramatic climax.  Or maybe I'll come up with something when I get closer to that point.  I'm sure I will figure it out well before I get there, but it's kinda fun not knowing... gives me something to think about.  I like having things to think about when I can't actually sit down and write, like when I'm trying to fall asleep at night, getting ready for work in the morning, or driving to/from.  It helps to keep me inspired and takes my mind off real life problems.

I'm sure you say that now and you'll still have a dramatic climax.

I love having something to think about as I'm driving to work or blow drying my hair. Unless there's a BSB song on with a lyric belting part, then I just want to belt out the lyrics and think about nothing, haha.

[RokofAges75]

What if Nick dated a decent lady instead of Paris Hilton? Glad we as a fandom didn't superstitiousl y summon that into the universe. Phew!  

LMAO!

A story is just a story, unless you physically go out there and try to get real life to reenact said story. That's the line for me.

LOL I had an idea for a suspense story a long time ago about a fanfic author (or a group of them) who took BSB fanfic tropes like the bus crash or Brian having heart problems and tried to make them come to life.

It's the innocent children thing for sure. That and they didn't decide to have a Backstreet Boy for a parent, it just happened. At least the wives chose to have a Backstreet Boy for a husband, though I don't like writing about them either.

Yes, I do think that's it.  I don't like writing about the wives either, but sometimes it's unavoidable.  I have no problem getting rid of them if it serves the plot.

On a side note, I would be stoked as hell if the Boys turned out to be demons with magic powers. Stoked. As. Hell.

LOL Hey, you never know!  Howie seems to have some magic power that prevents him from aging.  Either he's discovered the Fountain of Youth down in Florida, or he may be some sort of supernatural creature after all.

Probably? I'm sure when I was younger, I thought many times that whatever was too sad and decided not to write it. Then as I got older, I decided sad was more interesting. I can't think of anything specific though! I'd say I shy away from mental health things more than physical things. I'm thinking of that "BSB is all in Nick's head in a psychiatric ward" idea, but then PBox Nick is basically an amnesiac with PTSD, so...   Just gotta think long and hard about whatever it is first. Team Story!

"BSB is all in Nick's head in a psychiatric ward" is an incredibly depressing idea, but also an interesting one.  Like you said, sad is more interesting.  At the end of the day, we all know it's just fiction, even if we are writing about real people.  That's how I justify it.

I have a harder time writing stuff that seems too close to reality, even if I know I'm making it up or exaggerating it for the sake of a dramatic story.  For example, when Nick's People article came out in 2009 about his weight loss and substance abuse issues, I wondered if that would spark a trend of people writing stories about his cardiomyopathy the way they used to write about Brian's heart condition.  We talked about it on a thread here, and I was like, "Personally, I wouldn't touch that topic with a ten-foot pole" because it felt too real and kind of scary.  Well, that trend never happened, and leave it to me to be the one to eventually go there like ten years later LOL.  That was the last time I've crossed one of my lines.

Julie, was this your offer to contribute to my list as long as it wasn't something you were interested in reading down the line, btw?

Sure!

[RokofAges75]

So now that AJ's living in your brain, what are you going to do with that?

I don't know...  He better not start arguing with me the way Nick argues with you guys, or I'm gonna evict his ass!  Luckily AJ usually gets off pretty easy in my stories, so he shouldn't have too many complaints.

Interesting. Do you put it in the body of the chapter or in an Author's Note?

Usually it's in my update posts on my site, so people that read my stories elsewhere don't get any kind of warning.  I used to do little author's notes on some chapters on AC, but I haven't done that in years because I don't like the way it looks on the chapter index.  Nowadays if I do an author's note, it's always at the end of the chapter or story.

I love that quote too. That's kind of how I felt about coming back to fanfic after so long (not necessarily scared to death about the content of the story, but scared to death about it in a different way), but I'm glad I did it.

I'm glad you did too!

Has anyone ever posted something they were scared to post and actually ended up regretting it?

I'm sure you say that now and you'll still have a dramatic climax.

I love having something to think about as I'm driving to work or blow drying my hair. Unless there's a BSB song on with a lyric belting part, then I just want to belt out the lyrics and think about nothing, haha.

Knowing me, probably!  I have plenty of time to figure it out.

Very true; I can't brainstorm and listen to BSB or Hamilton at the same time because of the need to sing along.

[nicksgal]

LOL I had an idea for a suspense story a long time ago about a fanfic author (or a group of them) who took BSB fanfic tropes like the bus crash or Brian having heart problems and tried to make them come to life.

Creepy. Do it.

LOL Hey, you never know!  Howie seems to have some magic power that prevents him from aging.  Either he's discovered the Fountain of Youth down in Florida, or he may be some sort of supernatural creature after all.

He and Paul Rudd are in the Illuminati, obviously.

"BSB is all in Nick's head in a psychiatric ward" is an incredibly depressing idea, but also an interesting one.  Like you said, sad is more interesting.  At the end of the day, we all know it's just fiction, even if we are writing about real people.  That's how I justify it.

I have a harder time writing stuff that seems too close to reality, even if I know I'm making it up or exaggerating it for the sake of a dramatic story.  For example, when Nick's People article came out in 2009 about his weight loss and substance abuse issues, I wondered if that would spark a trend of people writing stories about his cardiomyopathy the way they used to write about Brian's heart condition.  We talked about it on a thread here, and I was like, "Personally, I wouldn't touch that topic with a ten-foot pole" because it felt too real and kind of scary.  Well, that trend never happened, and leave it to me to be the one to eventually go there like ten years later LOL.  That was the last time I've crossed one of my lines.

Exactly. When it's all fiction, it's just a story with recognizable characters.

Maybe it's that things like that feel less real and scary as time goes on? Like Brian's heart condition, I doubt anyone was writing "but what if he died during surgery" until after it was perfectly clear that he lived. Then it's just "what if" speculative fiction after the fact. But I'm glad Nick's cardiomyopathy didn't become a huge thing at the time, we had to keep putting positive vibes out into the universe for his quest to get and keep the girl.

That's part of why I like writing fantasy, you shove away pesky and scary reality when you like.

Sure!

Sweet!

[nicksgal]

I don't know...  He better not start arguing with me the way Nick argues with you guys, or I'm gonna evict his ass!  Luckily AJ usually gets off pretty easy in my stories, so he shouldn't have too many complaints.

It's really only PBox Nick for me. Every other Nick is fine, or hasn't gotten to the point where he has time to be opinionated. Does anyone have that problem with all Nicks? Or just a Nick in particular? I hope AJ does start arguing with you, so you can enjoy the fun with us! 

Usually it's in my update posts on my site, so people that read my stories elsewhere don't get any kind of warning.  I used to do little author's notes on some chapters on AC, but I haven't done that in years because I don't like the way it looks on the chapter index.  Nowadays if I do an author's note, it's always at the end of the chapter or story.

I prefer notes at the end these days, but I loved having that little box to ramble on about whatever in PBox's original run. I deleted all of them in the edit, but man some of the things I talked about. I don't know that I would want "this is a graphic chapter" to be on the chapter index forever, that's why I asked how you do it.

I'm glad you did too!

Has anyone ever posted something they were scared to post and actually ended up regretting it?

 

Nope! I can't think of a single thing I ever shared that I actually regretted, especially things I was scared about. I don't know if that has more to do with figuring silence means it's all good or what, but I figure if I felt fine about writing it and sharing it, then it was all fine.

Knowing me, probably!  I have plenty of time to figure it out.

Very true; I can't brainstorm and listen to BSB or Hamilton at the same time because of the need to sing along.

Haha, to thine own self be true indeed.

Facts. My rapping has not improved at all despite all of my practice singing along. Yours? I'll be Burr or Eliza.

[RokofAges75]

Creepy. Do it.

LOL It's one of those ideas that sat around on my list of ideas forever (I think I first came up with it in like 2002) and never quite panned out, but I ended up using elements of it in another story, which was definitely creepy.  Another example of combining ideas to come up with something even better.

He and Paul Rudd are in the Illuminati, obviously.

Obviously!

Maybe it's that things like that feel less real and scary as time goes on? Like Brian's heart condition, I doubt anyone was writing "but what if he died during surgery" until after it was perfectly clear that he lived. Then it's just "what if" speculative fiction after the fact. But I'm glad Nick's cardiomyopathy didn't become a huge thing at the time, we had to keep putting positive vibes out into the universe for his quest to get and keep the girl.

I think that's it.  I always wondered why I was fine reading and writing Brian heart problem stories, but the thought of writing one about Nick really bothered me.  The difference was, I didn't become a fan until right after Brian's heart surgery, so I never had that experience of worrying about the "What ifs?"  It was always history for me.  And I guess we've gotten to that point with Nick now too, since he's kept his shit together for the most part in the years since then and seems to be doing well.  I guess all our positive vibes for his love life eventually worked!

[RokofAges75]

Nope! I can't think of a single thing I ever shared that I actually regretted, especially things I was scared about. I don't know if that has more to do with figuring silence means it's all good or what, but I figure if I felt fine about writing it and sharing it, then it was all fine.

I feel the same way.  I've never gotten a flame review that was like, "WTF is wrong with you?!" so I figure either people are fine with it or just quietly click the X without saying anything, which is fine too.

Facts. My rapping has not improved at all despite all of my practice singing along. Yours? I'll be Burr or Eliza.

LOL I know, I still don't have the whole thing down either.  I can sing/rap every word of "Alexander Hamilton" spot on, which was an accomplishment, but that one's not very fast.  I've got "Yorktown" pretty much down too - that's my favorite song.  I'm still working on "My Shot" and "Guns and Ships."  The non-rapping songs are definitely easier!

[nicksgal]

LOL It's one of those ideas that sat around on my list of ideas forever (I think I first came up with it in like 2002) and never quite panned out, but I ended up using elements of it in another story, which was definitely creepy.  Another example of combining ideas to come up with something even better.

I'm glad you sit on your ideas if they don't pan out, because they seem to be working for you eventually in a different form as time goes on. I wish I'd kept better track of my ideas in some form like that!

I think that's it.  I always wondered why I was fine reading and writing Brian heart problem stories, but the thought of writing one about Nick really bothered me.  The difference was, I didn't become a fan until right after Brian's heart surgery, so I never had that experience of worrying about the "What ifs?"  It was always history for me.  And I guess we've gotten to that point with Nick now too, since he's kept his shit together for the most part in the years since then and seems to be doing well.  I guess all our positive vibes for his love life eventually worked!

Worrying about the what ifs is nerve wracking for anything like that, since we're all on a first name basis and it feels like worrying about a friend or a family member. When it becomes history, then it's just that, shared fact and history. I feel like I remember when it happened, but I was not quite at teeny stage yet where I would have obsessed about it. I think it was just on the news or something? It's all a little vague. Ask me about when I decided Nick was the best instead, I remember that.

I was very busy all those years sending out "Marry me" and "Be so happy" positive vibes. I'm pleased that one of them worked: the more important one.  

[nicksgal]

I feel the same way.  I've never gotten a flame review that was like, "WTF is wrong with you?!" so I figure either people are fine with it or just quietly click the X without saying anything, which is fine too.

That's what I figure is happening with me, people quietly click the little x. It's cool. I'll keep writing anyway.

LOL I know, I still don't have the whole thing down either.  I can sing/rap every word of "Alexander Hamilton" spot on, which was an accomplishment, but that one's not very fast.  I've got "Yorktown" pretty much down too - that's my favorite song.  I'm still working on "My Shot" and "Guns and Ships."  The non-rapping songs are definitely easier!

My favorite is Non-Stop, which is also not too fast on the rap. Though, I gotta appreciate "Wait For It" because Burr puts Hamilton on par with uncontrollable things like life/death, love, his past, and forces of nature, haha. Also have to appreciate the "chick-a-plao" in Stay Alive, since the Boys taught me to love random stuff like that!

[RokofAges75]

My favorite is Non-Stop, which is also not too fast on the rap. Though, I gotta appreciate "Wait For It" because Burr puts Hamilton on par with uncontrollable things like life/death, love, his past, and forces of nature, haha. Also have to appreciate the "chick-a-plao" in Stay Alive, since the Boys taught me to love random stuff like that!

"Chick-a-plao" - yes!!  I love stuff like that too.  Non-Stop is great, especially at the end when it combines all the different musical motifs.  Wait for It is one of my favorites as well - such a pretty song, and it reveals so much about Burr's back story and motivation.

I've been listening to BSB in my car lately, but I put Hamilton on today in honor of George Washington's birthday.

[nicksgal]

"Chick-a-plao" - yes!!  I love stuff like that too.  Non-Stop is great, especially at the end when it combines all the different musical motifs.  Wait for It is one of my favorites as well - such a pretty song, and it reveals so much about Burr's back story and motivation.

I've been listening to BSB in my car lately, but I put Hamilton on today in honor of George Washington's birthday.

I love when a song combines musical motifs and the layered melody it creates, as I already mentioned with "One Day More" from Les Mis. I wonder if LLM is working on anything new or is just still busy with In the Heights and Hamilton stuff.

Aw, I forgot it was GW's birthday. Good first President. I listened to the Boys today as is typical lately.