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[RokofAges75]

I was doing the same, but most of the ones I've seen pop up anywhere are all things we've discussed.

Yep, and most of the fanfiction subreddit just seems to be threads about ships, kudos, and comments.  Not as much actual writing talk there, whereas the writing subreddit focuses more on writing craft and habits, but leans toward original fiction and publishing. 

Team wordiness! Like you, I feel like I am wordy already. I don't think I make it through a whole chapter before I start editing it. If I stop writing in the middle of a chapter, I always go back and reread anything I'd written before continuing. As far as major revisions... It's a little bit of both. Sometimes I add and sometimes I hack. I think which one I do varies based on how I'm feeling about the chapter when I go to edit it. Being able to let the chapters sit for... what... five months for this week's update? I feel like it helps take away some of the freshness and gives me a different feeling for it. The earlier ones I posted were a lot less removed, but the removal has only grown over time.

This doesn't mean that my hacks don't turn into hacking and replacing, because they do that also. I'd say in general, my chapters do get slightly longer after an edit, but usually in the 50-200 word range more than major additions after the fact.

I do think that feeling of removal is important for really being able to revise.  It allows you to look at your writing with fresh eyes and see more of the big picture.  Part of the reason I don't hack as much as I add or replace is that it's hard to just delete something I spent time writing, unless I absolutely hate it.  But when it's not newly written, it's easier to take a step back, look at it more objectively, and make changes where they're needed.

Sorry you got sick! But I'm glad it wasn't majorly sick that you could still write and catch up on sleep! That's awesome that you're inching toward 3000 words for the two days! I always consider that a productive weekend. And now you get a whole other potentially productive weekend ahead of you. Congrats!

But... did you pass your slump on to me? haha I wrote about 400 words on Monday, which isn't too bad, but lower than the average Monday. And then only three words yesterday. I wrote a little this morning (about 62 words), so the streak lives, but I'm hoping to be semi-productive either now or after the Masked Singer tonight. However, as you all know, I'm pretty useless on update day. On the plus side, my writing speed is now eight words per minute, lol. And I'm just shy of two weeks ahead of myself, so... baby steps. Nano says I'll be done on June 8th, but I doubt that's true. I see this chapter taking a little longer, so at best, I'll be finished around June 20th or so. Which is still good.

Thanks!  Now if I could just stop violently sneezing and needing to blow my nose, that would be great.  Other than that, I feel fine.

I hope I didn't pass my slump on to you!  400 words on a weeknight really isn't bad.  In a normal week, I tend to write less each day until I hit the weekend and catch up on sleep.  Your writing speed is still more than double mine - I got mine up from 2 words a minute to 3 LOL.  Are you at a tough part of the story like I was last week, or are you just feeling uninspired?  It's so frustrating when the latter happens and you don't know why, but it was bound to happen to both of us at some point.  I hope you'll have a productive weekend!

[nicksgal]

Yep, and most of the fanfiction subreddit just seems to be threads about ships, kudos, and comments.  Not as much actual writing talk there, whereas the writing subreddit focuses more on writing craft and habits, but leans toward original fiction and publishing.

I feel like the focus on ships is so weird, but I don't know if that's because ships didn't used to be as big, or probably more realistically because we write in a fandom that doesn't really have ships... as much anyway.

Imagine if you had to find an agent to post fanfic on the internet, haha. I guess Ash is our publishing house?

I do think that feeling of removal is important for really being able to revise.  It allows you to look at your writing with fresh eyes and see more of the big picture.  Part of the reason I don't hack as much as I add or replace is that it's hard to just delete something I spent time writing, unless I absolutely hate it.  But when it's not newly written, it's easier to take a step back, look at it more objectively, and make changes where they're needed.

Exactly! Part of me wishes that I had been a little more removed from writing the beginning chapters as there's a couple of things I would change now that I didn't back then and couldn't at this point.

I think hacking doesn't bother me as much because if I truly want to hack, then I feel like it's unnecessary. I probably do more hack and replace than true hacking, but I'll let you all know after I edit next week's chapter. I'll keep track of what I got rid of too, just to experiment.

I love my update schedule, but I've been thinking of trying to catch AO3's posting up to where AC is, but I'm not sure how to do that... Post twice a week for a hot second? Post two chapters a week when it makes sense? I don't know. Anyone have thoughts?

Thanks!  Now if I could just stop violently sneezing and needing to blow my nose, that would be great.  Other than that, I feel fine.

I hope I didn't pass my slump on to you!  400 words on a weeknight really isn't bad.  In a normal week, I tend to write less each day until I hit the weekend and catch up on sleep.  Your writing speed is still more than double mine - I got mine up from 2 words a minute to 3 LOL.  Are you at a tough part of the story like I was last week, or are you just feeling uninspired?  It's so frustrating when the latter happens and you don't know why, but it was bound to happen to both of us at some point.  I hope you'll have a productive weekend!

Have you stopped violently sneezing and needing to to blow your nose as of today? Did you end up going back to work today? How was it? Did you get lot more written yesterday and feel inspired today still?

I think it's okay. I ended up leaving myself a note last night to the effect of "Brian in the Everybody video" and then wrote about 450 words this morning, so I'm feeling a bit better about it! I think I was just really exhausted and needed to give my brain a break so it could continue to brain. But the streak is still alive and I've made it halfway to my goal (in word count anyway)! Yay!

I'm not sure how my writing speed is eight words per minute. It definitely does not feel like it! lol Oooh, up a whole word per minute. Celebration!

It's not really a tough part necessarily, I just had inspiration on Sunday, then lost it over the last three days.   That was kind of a bummer. I hope we both have productive weekends! I'm glad you got through your slump and hopefully mine is over too!  

Edited to add: In the most unexciting fashion, my 23,000th word was "can't," lol! However, I think we should all take a moment and be proud of me that it wasn't "Nick."  

[RokofAges75]

I feel like the focus on ships is so weird, but I don't know if that's because ships didn't used to be as big, or probably more realistically because we write in a fandom that doesn't really have ships... as much anyway.

Imagine if you had to find an agent to post fanfic on the internet, haha. I guess Ash is our publishing house?

Yeah, it's hard to relate to a lot of the threads on the Fanfic subreddit because our real person fandom is different in so many ways.  Although I did come across a thread wondering if fanfic awards were still a thing, and that was relatable - apparently awards cause drama across all fandoms LOL.  I do miss the Felix Awards though.  Mare and Julilly always did a great job running them.

LOL I guess he is!  I do remember the days when you had to find someone to host your fanfic.  I don't know when ff.net was created, but it wasn't on my radar yet when I started reading and writing fanfic.  Everything I read was on smaller, personal websites.  I remember how nerve-racking it was to submit my first story to be hosted on one.  I guess that's the fanfic equivalent of finding an agent or publisher LOL.  It's nice we can just self-publish everything on these archives now, although I do still enjoy maintaining my own site.

I love my update schedule, but I've been thinking of trying to catch AO3's posting up to where AC is, but I'm not sure how to do that... Post twice a week for a hot second? Post two chapters a week when it makes sense? I don't know. Anyone have thoughts?

I think it would be better post twice a week for a while, one chapter at a time, then post two chapters at once.  It would be easy for someone who was reading your weekly updates to click to the last chapter and miss the one before it.

Have you stopped violently sneezing and needing to to blow your nose as of today? Did you end up going back to work today? How was it? Did you get lot more written yesterday and feel inspired today still?

I feel so much better today!  I busted out the big guns to go back to work today:  meth-making generic Sudafed.  That stuff always does the trick.  I had a good day.  My kids were excited to see me back, which was nice.  I did not write any more yesterday after posting here, but I did write a little bit before school this morning.  I am exhausted, but hopefully will get a bit more written tonight.  I'm in the middle of a conversation, which is usually a good place to leave off because it's easy to pick it back up.

I think it's okay. I ended up leaving myself a note last night to the effect of "Brian in the Everybody video" and then wrote about 450 words this morning, so I'm feeling a bit better about it! I think I was just really exhausted and needed to give my brain a break so it could continue to brain. But the streak is still alive and I've made it halfway to my goal (in word count anyway)! Yay!

I'm not sure how my writing speed is eight words per minute. It definitely does not feel like it! lol Oooh, up a whole word per minute. Celebration!

It's not really a tough part necessarily, I just had inspiration on Sunday, then lost it over the last three days.  That was kind of a bummer. I hope we both have productive weekends! I'm glad you got through your slump and hopefully mine is over too! 

Edited to add: In the most unexciting fashion, my 23,000th word was "can't," lol! However, I think we should all take a moment and be proud of me that it wasn't "Nick." 

450 words this morning!  What a great start!

The post-Sunday slump happens to me almost every week.  I'm usually still pretty inspired on Monday, but then the work week wears me down and the inspiration dies until I can fire it back up again the following weekend.  I think it's just a part of adulting and having a day job that isn't writing, unfortunately.  But I hope yours is over too.  It's almost the weekend again!

Aww... "can't."  Sad trombone.  "Nick" is a much better word.  But congrats on hitting 23,000 words!

[nicksgal]

Yeah, it's hard to relate to a lot of the threads on the Fanfic subreddit because our real person fandom is different in so many ways.  Although I did come across a thread wondering if fanfic awards were still a thing, and that was relatable - apparently awards cause drama across all fandoms LOL.  I do miss the Felix Awards though.  Mare and Julilly always did a great job running them.

I even find the kudos posts hard to relate to, haha. I miss when the most complicated thing here was the star rating system, lol. After that, it was just easy. Aw, the Felix Awards. I always wish I'd won one, but I was happy just to be nominated. Mare and Julilly are great mods; they've done a great job taking care of this place, especially when they're not writing anymore.

LOL I guess he is!  I do remember the days when you had to find someone to host your fanfic.  I don't know when ff.net was created, but it wasn't on my radar yet when I started reading and writing fanfic.  Everything I read was on smaller, personal websites.  I remember how nerve-racking it was to submit my first story to be hosted on one.  I guess that's the fanfic equivalent of finding an agent or publisher LOL.  It's nice we can just self-publish everything on these archives now, although I do still enjoy maintaining my own site.

Yes! It was so nerve-wracking! I feel like ff.net was early, but I never ended up over there either. It was just asking to be hosted, then stumbling onto AC and going, "Oh, I can manage my own stuff? Okay great." Then I never looked back!

I do enjoy your little update blogs you've shared over here. What's your favorite part of still maintaining your site?

I think it would be better post twice a week for a while, one chapter at a time, then post two chapters at once.  It would be easy for someone who was reading your weekly updates to click to the last chapter and miss the one before it.

Good point! Maybe I'll make it like a "sizzling seven weeks of summer" type thing, lol. Here's my other one. So on AO3, you can say the story is "___ of ____ chapters" pretty much from the beginning. If you're all updating weekly, but you finish writing it, do you change the second number to the total chapters or leave it as the question mark until you post the last chapter?

I feel so much better today!  I busted out the big guns to go back to work today:  meth-making generic Sudafed.  That stuff always does the trick.  I had a good day.  My kids were excited to see me back, which was nice.  I did not write any more yesterday after posting here, but I did write a little bit before school this morning.  I am exhausted, but hopefully will get a bit more written tonight.  I'm in the middle of a conversation, which is usually a good place to leave off because it's easy to pick it back up.

Glad you're feeling better! Hubs swears by sudafed too when he's feeling under the weather and will just preemptively take it the first day and just continue carrying on. Glad the kids were excited to see you. Sending you good writing vibes! Hopefully you can write a little more this evening!

450 words this morning!  What a great start!

The post-Sunday slump happens to me almost every week.  I'm usually still pretty inspired on Monday, but then the work week wears me down and the inspiration dies until I can fire it back up again the following weekend.  I think it's just a part of adulting and having a day job that isn't writing, unfortunately.  But I hope yours is over too.  It's almost the weekend again!

Aww... "can't."  Sad trombone.  "Nick" is a much better word.  But congrats on hitting 23,000 words!

I was pretty excited.  I had like half an hour to myself this morning and a good flow going.

Yeah, that's probably exactly it. If only we could get paid to write. I feel like I usually don't hit the slump until post-updating on Wednesday, but I had a really long day on Tuesday. We can make it to Saturday! Drink our coffee! Go nowhere! lol

Don't worry, "Nick" was my 23,109th word, so I continue to be predictable as always, lol.

[RokofAges75]

I even find the kudos posts hard to relate to, haha. I miss when the most complicated thing here was the star rating system, lol. After that, it was just easy. Aw, the Felix Awards. I always wish I'd won one, but I was happy just to be nominated. Mare and Julilly are great mods; they've done a great job taking care of this place, especially when they're not writing anymore.

LOL Same.  I clicked on one yesterday with a poll about how many subscriptions your longfic had.  The choices ranged from under 10 to over 200.  I looked up my stats, and the most subscriptions any of my stories had was 6.  And that was my ER crossover, so it was across two fandoms LOL.  I felt better when I saw that the most popular choice on the poll results was under 10, but the third most popular choice was over 200.  What a range!  I'm sure that has a lot to do with what fandom you write for and what "ships" you're writing.

Technically you did win a Felix Award for 00Carter.  But I know what you mean... it's nice to win one for a solo story too!

Yes! It was so nerve-wracking! I feel like ff.net was early, but I never ended up over there either. It was just asking to be hosted, then stumbling onto AC and going, "Oh, I can manage my own stuff? Okay great." Then I never looked back!

I don't remember visiting ff.net until 2001.  I think I had just started posting my stories there when the real person fanfic purge happened.  I read more Harry Potter fanfic there than BSB... which was not much, but that was at the beginning of my HP obsession, so I did give it a try.  I even have the beginning of a Harry Potter fic posted there under a different account I created for the HP fic I thought I was going to write.  But that only lasted a few days before I lost interest.  I just looked up my HP account, and OMG... I sound just as weird and obnoxious as the teenagers on Reddit LOL.  https://www.fanfiction.net/u/202471/Luscious-Lucius  I was also still in the "I just got a story idea and sat down and wrote a chapter without any sort of outline or plan, and now I'm going to post it!" phase, which is probably why said story only has two chapters LOL.

I also looked my BSB account there, and it says I joined in March 2001.  So yep.  I have exactly two stories favorited, both of which are Voldemort humor stories.  That was about as far as I got into HP fanfic - Voldemort humor stories and Marauder MSTs.  I'm cracking up at one of them, "Voldemort Goes to Zimbabwe."  https://www.fanfiction.net/s/601906/1/Voldemort-Goes-to-Zimbabwe  Take a look at this... is this not Dr. Rough or what?!  This was written in 2002, so well before 00Carter's conception, but I've always said my Dr. Rough is inspired by Voldemort, and there it is LOL.

I do enjoy your little update blogs you've shared over here. What's your favorite part of still maintaining your site?

Thanks!  I like having my own little corner of the web to post my stuff and make it look the way I want it.  I like being able to share more about my stories through the little update blurbs and author's notes I post there, which I don't usually post other places.

Good point! Maybe I'll make it like a "sizzling seven weeks of summer" type thing, lol. Here's my other one. So on AO3, you can say the story is "___ of ____ chapters" pretty much from the beginning. If you're all updating weekly, but you finish writing it, do you change the second number to the total chapters or leave it as the question mark until you post the last chapter?

Perfect!

Hm... I know when I started posting old novels that were finished years ago, I did set the number of chapters from the beginning, hoping it would help people realize the story was already finished and would be posted in its entirety.  I can't remember if I changed it once I finished Bethlehem and Heroic Measures, or if I left it as a question mark until the last chapter.  I wanna say I did change it, but I'm not positive.

Glad you're feeling better! Hubs swears by sudafed too when he's feeling under the weather and will just preemptively take it the first day and just continue carrying on. Glad the kids were excited to see you. Sending you good writing vibes! Hopefully you can write a little more this evening!

It really does work the best!  And it has to be the real kind you can only get from the pharmacy counter, not the PE crap.  I've learned it is worth signing my life away and risking being put on some kind of watch list to have a box on hand when I need it.  I'm about out of my stash, so I need to get some more.

I have not written anything this evening.  I meant to, but then I sat down at the computer and came here instead LOL.  Good thing I wrote some this morning.

Yeah, that's probably exactly it. If only we could get paid to write. I feel like I usually don't hit the slump until post-updating on Wednesday, but I had a really long day on Tuesday. We can make it to Saturday! Drink our coffee! Go nowhere! lol

Don't worry, "Nick" was my 23,109th word, so I continue to be predictable as always, lol.

I wish!  But would that make it feel like work?  I don't ever want writing fanfic to feel like work.

One more day!  We've got this!

LOL I'm relieved Nick's name came up soon.

[nicksgal]

LOL Same.  I clicked on one yesterday with a poll about how many subscriptions your longfic had.  The choices ranged from under 10 to over 200.  I looked up my stats, and the most subscriptions any of my stories had was 6.  And that was my ER crossover, so it was across two fandoms LOL.  I felt better when I saw that the most popular choice on the poll results was under 10, but the third most popular choice was over 200.  What a range!  I'm sure that has a lot to do with what fandom you write for and what "ships" you're writing.

Technically you did win a Felix Award for 00Carter.  But I know what you mean... it's nice to win one for a solo story too!

I saw that one too, and I was like 200 subscribers? So many! I don't think any of my stories have subscribers on AO3, but I have 2 user subscriptions, I think? (Confirmed, two user subscriptions.) I dug back into my AC stats and 19 people list me as a favorite author, PBox has 18 people who favorited it, and PNecklace has 1. Very grateful for you always, Tracy, because I think you're one of each of those numbers I just listed.

I think it probably does have a lot to do with what (and who?) you write, just like we always talked about certain genres being more popular than other ones. I also wonder if the people with higher subscriber numbers are writing in very busy fandoms or quieter ones? I feel like it's a lot easier to keep up with our front page over the course of a week than a fandom where hoards of people are updating every day.

Sweet! You know I love a technical loophole. I will take it. I'm a winner! Thanks readers of AC back in the late '00s/early new 10s!

I don't remember visiting ff.net until 2001.  I think I had just started posting my stories there when the real person fanfic purge happened.  I read more Harry Potter fanfic there than BSB... which was not much, but that was at the beginning of my HP obsession, so I did give it a try.  I even have the beginning of a Harry Potter fic posted there under a different account I created for the HP fic I thought I was going to write.  But that only lasted a few days before I lost interest.  I just looked up my HP account, and OMG... I sound just as weird and obnoxious as the teenagers on Reddit LOL.  https://www.fanfiction.net/u/202471/Luscious-Lucius  I was also still in the "I just got a story idea and sat down and wrote a chapter without any sort of outline or plan, and now I'm going to post it!" phase, which is probably why said story only has two chapters LOL.

I also looked my BSB account there, and it says I joined in March 2001.  So yep.  I have exactly two stories favorited, both of which are Voldemort humor stories.  That was about as far as I got into HP fanfic - Voldemort humor stories and Marauder MSTs.  I'm cracking up at one of them, "Voldemort Goes to Zimbabwe."  https://www.fanfiction.net/s/601906/1/Voldemort-Goes-to-Zimbabwe  Take a look at this... is this not Dr. Rough or what?!  This was written in 2002, so well before 00Carter's conception, but I've always said my Dr. Rough is inspired by Voldemort, and there it is LOL.

LMAO! I want to say the RPF purge was in 2001? 2002? I wasn't quite ready to post on ff.net, but I remember it happening. I think Rose is the ff.net expert? I couldn't even tell you what my account was if I had one.

I mean, I came back here and cringed at things I'd written... in my late teens/early twenties. So I think you're allowed to sound obnoxious at fifteen. And omg, yes, that does remind me of Dr. Rough! Parodies are the best.

Also, I just can't picture you sitting down to write an idea without a plan, lol. That's dangerous Dee territory you're walking into (and Rose, I think?). I say all of this in the most loving way possible, of course.

Thanks!  I like having my own little corner of the web to post my stuff and make it look the way I want it.  I like being able to share more about my stories through the little update blurbs and author's notes I post there, which I don't usually post other places.

I think that's awesome! I'm sure readers other places would like your little update blurbs and author's notes too. I always wonder if I should do more author notes at the end of the text, rather than just here.

Hm... I know when I started posting old novels that were finished years ago, I did set the number of chapters from the beginning, hoping it would help people realize the story was already finished and would be posted in its entirety.  I can't remember if I changed it once I finished Bethlehem and Heroic Measures, or if I left it as a question mark until the last chapter.  I wanna say I did change it, but I'm not positive.

I did that with PBox for the same reason. I think it makes sense when it's an old story and you do already know for sure. I guess we're in a weird spot now because we write so far ahead of what we're posting that we know it's done much sooner than we did in the past when we may have decided it would be x chapters, but could never technically be sure until we physically wrote "the end" and then maybe held on to it for a week or two.

It really does work the best!  And it has to be the real kind you can only get from the pharmacy counter, not the PE crap.  I've learned it is worth signing my life away and risking being put on some kind of watch list to have a box on hand when I need it.  I'm about out of my stash, so I need to get some more.

I have not written anything this evening.  I meant to, but then I sat down at the computer and came here instead LOL.  Good thing I wrote some this morning.

If I learned anything from Breaking Bad, it's that teachers have the power to make drugs. Or Chemistry teachers, at least, lol. If you go through the effort of going to the pharmacy counter and being on a watch list to heal, then I feel like you're less likely to go Walter White. So you have a stash, is it on refillable prescription or something? haha

Here is equally fun! I feel like once a week, we end up here rather than writing. But the streak lives!

I wish!  But would that make it feel like work?  I don't ever want writing fanfic to feel like work.

One more day!  We've got this!

LOL I'm relieved Nick's name came up soon.

It might. It's better that we keep doing it for free.

I ended up writing a little more this evening, but pushed it back for a walk and some ice cream since it's getting hot. I stopped in the middle of an argument and know the next little bit of the scene, so I think I'll be able to get it finished tomorrow and then I can go back to my Brian scene.

That's why Nick's name only appeared the one time, lol. Contrast today's scene that is a Nick scene and I wrote "Nick" ten times in an hour, lol.

[RokofAges75]

I saw that one too, and I was like 200 subscribers? So many! I don't think any of my stories have subscribers on AO3, but I have 2 user subscriptions, I think? (Confirmed, two user subscriptions.) I dug back into my AC stats and 19 people list me as a favorite author, PBox has 18 people who favorited it, and PNecklace has 1. Very grateful for you always, Tracy, because I think you're one of each of those numbers I just listed.

I think it probably does have a lot to do with what (and who?) you write, just like we always talked about certain genres being more popular than other ones. I also wonder if the people with higher subscriber numbers are writing in very busy fandoms or quieter ones? I feel like it's a lot easier to keep up with our front page over the course of a week than a fandom where hoards of people are updating every day.

I'm your other subscriber on AO3.  I wish it would tell you who subscribes to you or your stories, just because I'm always curious about that kind of stuff.  

I think who you write is definitely part of it.  The "ships" and, in our fandom, just which Boy(s) you write.  In general, I tend to get more feedback on Nick stories than stories that focus on the other guys.  And while the readers of AO3 love slash, they do not seem to love Nowie slash.  So if I wanted to cater to them and see how many more subscribers/kudos/comments I could get, I would write a kinky but angsty Frick/Frack slash with lots of tags.

I wondered the same thing about if the people with lots of subscribers write for popular or less popular fandoms.  In popular fandoms, there's obviously a larger base of readers, but there's also more competition/less chance of your story standing out in the crowd.  Whereas in quieter fandoms, there may be fewer people reading, but a decent writer who updates consistently would have a pretty good chance of building a loyal following.  Without actually checking stats, it seems like BSB is somewhere in the middle.  We're not a popular fandom anymore compared to some, but there are plenty of smaller, quieter fandoms.

LMAO! I want to say the RPF purge was in 2001? 2002? I wasn't quite ready to post on ff.net, but I remember it happening. I think Rose is the ff.net expert? I couldn't even tell you what my account was if I had one.

I mean, I came back here and cringed at things I'd written... in my late teens/early twenties. So I think you're allowed to sound obnoxious at fifteen. And omg, yes, that does remind me of Dr. Rough! Parodies are the best.

Also, I just can't picture you sitting down to write an idea without a plan, lol. That's dangerous Dee territory you're walking into (and Rose, I think?). I say all of this in the most loving way possible, of course.

I thought it had to be one of those years too, but Wikipedia says it was 2003.  Apparently they've also banned NC-17 stories, CYOAs, songfics, and lists.

LOL That just goes to show how much I've changed since then, at least in some ways.  I always had some kind of plan in my head, but I never wrote it down.  The first story I remember making a partial outline for was You'll Never Walk Alone in 2002.  I didn't start it with an outline, but because it was a mystery, it got hard to keep track of when and how I wanted to reveal certain plot points, so I made an outline partway through.  That was the last solo novel I wrote before Broken, which I started with an outline.  That's part of the reason Broken is where I divide the phases of my fanfic career, because my whole writing process changed with that story.

I think Rose has become more of a planner/outliner, at least partly because of me LOL.  We've always used outlines when we write together.  I wish she'd come weigh in on this!

I think that's awesome! I'm sure readers other places would like your little update blurbs and author's notes too. I always wonder if I should do more author notes at the end of the text, rather than just here.

Yeah, I dunno... I guess I could post them in my update thread here instead of just saying I updated, but I try not to overdo it on author's notes in the actual story.  I sometimes do one at the end of a novel or after a big moment, but not before or after every chapter.

If I learned anything from Breaking Bad, it's that teachers have the power to make drugs. Or Chemistry teachers, at least, lol. If you go through the effort of going to the pharmacy counter and being on a watch list to heal, then I feel like you're less likely to go Walter White. So you have a stash, is it on refillable prescription or something? haha

I love Breaking Bad!  And yes... teachers can do anything! LOL  I'm exaggerating; my "stash" is just one box (the largest size box I could find), so now I need to go buy a new box.  I buy it less than once a year, so I'm not likely to be flagged for anything.  But I teach in a town with a meth problem, and that is one way the cops make their drug busts.

Here is equally fun! I feel like once a week, we end up here rather than writing. But the streak lives!

It might. It's better that we keep doing it for free.

I ended up writing a little more this evening, but pushed it back for a walk and some ice cream since it's getting hot. I stopped in the middle of an argument and know the next little bit of the scene, so I think I'll be able to get it finished tomorrow and then I can go back to my Brian scene.

That's why Nick's name only appeared the one time, lol. Contrast today's scene that is a Nick scene and I wrote "Nick" ten times in an hour, lol.

LOL It's probably Thursday nights, when we're too tired to focus on writing.  I actually did add a little bit more late last night, and then I wrote a little this morning.  I left off midsentence so I will hopefully be able to pick it back up tonight.  I'm close to finishing this chapter already - thanks, cold!  I'm glad you were able to write more last night too!

I wonder what the record is for most "Nicks" in a story...

Edited to add: I was curious, so I looked this up for BMS, which has to feature the most occurrences of Nick's name in one of my stories due to its length and the fact that Nick is the main character.  I wrote "Nick" 7,517 times.

[nicksgal]

I'm your other subscriber on AO3.  I wish it would tell you who subscribes to you or your stories, just because I'm always curious about that kind of stuff.

Well thanks to you both for supporting my comeback! Same, because then you could say thank you specifically.

I think who you write is definitely part of it.  The "ships" and, in our fandom, just which Boy(s) you write.  In general, I tend to get more feedback on Nick stories than stories that focus on the other guys.  And while the readers of AO3 love slash, they do not seem to love Nowie slash.  So if I wanted to cater to them and see how many more subscribers/kudos/comments I could get, I would write a kinky but angsty Frick/Frack slash with lots of tags.

I think it's always felt that way? Though didn't AJ feature in the most stories for a while on AC? I wonder if that's still true. I feel like in the same way that we all feel like Nick is easier to write about because he feels versatile and authentic, maybe readers feel like he's easier to read about because he feels versatile and authentic.

I saw another Nowie on the feed the last time i looked. There's some Nowie support! Even though you know I love experiments, I don't think I have a kinky, but angsty Frick/Frack in me, lol.

I wondered the same thing about if the people with lots of subscribers write for popular or less popular fandoms.  In popular fandoms, there's obviously a larger base of readers, but there's also more competition/less chance of your story standing out in the crowd.  Whereas in quieter fandoms, there may be fewer people reading, but a decent writer who updates consistently would have a pretty good chance of building a loyal following.  Without actually checking stats, it seems like BSB is somewhere in the middle.  We're not a popular fandom anymore compared to some, but there are plenty of smaller, quieter fandoms.

I could see reasons for both leading to higher stats, just like you said. I think the sweet spot is probably a newer, but growing fandom or an established fandom that sees a lot of "new blood" cycle in. So in order to have higher stats, we need some new BSB fans (or a time machine to go back to 1996, but that seems less likely). If Mariah Carey has taught me anything, it's that lots of people like catchy and well sung Christmas music, lol. Now we wait.

I thought it had to be one of those years too, but Wikipedia says it was 2003.  Apparently they've also banned NC-17 stories, CYOAs, songfics, and lists.

I'm surprised it's that late! I thought for sure it was when I was in middle school. I could see banning lists, but I wonder why the other three? I never understood why they banned RPF either. Like I know their reasons, but plenty of other places didn't and nothing's happened.

LOL That just goes to show how much I've changed since then, at least in some ways.  I always had some kind of plan in my head, but I never wrote it down.  The first story I remember making a partial outline for was You'll Never Walk Alone in 2002.  I didn't start it with an outline, but because it was a mystery, it got hard to keep track of when and how I wanted to reveal certain plot points, so I made an outline partway through.  That was the last solo novel I wrote before Broken, which I started with an outline.  That's part of the reason Broken is where I divide the phases of my fanfic career, because my whole writing process changed with that story.

I think Rose has become more of a planner/outliner, at least partly because of me LOL.  We've always used outlines when we write together.  I wish she'd come weigh in on this!

That's me, lol. It's easier now that I'll just write whatever when the mood strikes. I think a mystery is a good story to craft an outline with, because you do need to follow exact threads to a T. Do you think you would have had an outline for Broken if you hadn't made one at the end of You'll Never Walk Alone?

Yeah, I dunno... I guess I could post them in my update thread here instead of just saying I updated, but I try not to overdo it on author's notes in the actual story.  I sometimes do one at the end of a novel or after a big moment, but not before or after every chapter.

I always wonder if people love or hate author's notes, lol. Like, do they actually want to have a conversation with me about the story? My update thread says no, haha. But that might have been different if that was how I structured my update thread in 2006-2008 during PBox's initial run. I've been doing them mostly for "here's a fun callback to PBox in this chapter, you can reread the original moment in x chapter." I've always done one at the beginning and the end of a whole story. Though having a "story notes" section now helps with the beginning one.

I love Breaking Bad!  And yes... teachers can do anything! LOL  I'm exaggerating; my "stash" is just one box (the largest size box I could find), so now I need to go buy a new box.  I buy it less than once a year, so I'm not likely to be flagged for anything.  But I teach in a town with a meth problem, and that is one way the cops make their drug busts.

I enjoyed it too. Hubs was rewatching it this time last year and it was fun to revisit. Of course we can! We're jacks of all trades, really. I appreciate and enjoy your use of hyperbole here. Interesting! I didn't think they actually flagged people's purchases, but that would make it easier to identify people if need be.

LOL It's probably Thursday nights, when we're too tired to focus on writing.  I actually did add a little bit more late last night, and then I wrote a little this morning.  I left off midsentence so I will hopefully be able to pick it back up tonight.  I'm close to finishing this chapter already - thanks, cold!  I'm glad you were able to write more last night too!

You're right, it probably is Thursdays, lol. Great work! I did write a little this morning, then got hungry this evening and couldn't focus. Now I'm hoping to get back into it, but it's already 8:30. We'll see what happens.

Was your picking up midsentence productive?

I wonder what the record is for most "Nicks" in a story...

Edited to add: I was curious, so I looked this up for BMS, which has to feature the most occurrences of Nick's name in one of my stories due to its length and the fact that Nick is the main character.  I wrote "Nick" 7,517 times.

I know! We need more data!

That's a lot of Nicks! I decided to check through PNecklace and I'm already up to 2,247 times with about 8 1/3 chapters to go still. That's only slightly more than PBox? (About 250 more times.) I guess Nick's name will forever be 1% of PBox & Co, lol.

[RokofAges75]

I think it's always felt that way? Though didn't AJ feature in the most stories for a while on AC? I wonder if that's still true. I feel like in the same way that we all feel like Nick is easier to write about because he feels versatile and authentic, maybe readers feel like he's easier to read about because he feels versatile and authentic.

I saw another Nowie on the feed the last time i looked. There's some Nowie support! Even though you know I love experiments, I don't think I have a kinky, but angsty Frick/Frack in me, lol.

Yeah, there used to be a lot of AJ fans around here.  I think it boils down to Nick being the favorite, but I'm sure there's something to him being more versatile as a character too.

Well hey, maybe I should start posting SAMS!  I meant to post SAMS last summer or fall, but after I posted its one-shot predecessor, Unsuspecting Sunday, and it got zero response, I held off, thinking if no one wanted to read a Nowie one-shot, they're definitely not going to want to read an 80-chapter Nowie novel.  Maybe I'll get around to it this summer.

I wouldn't be opposed to writing an angsty Frick/Frack slash - if I ever wrote another slash, it probably would be Frick/Frack - but I don't do kinky.  But hey... I used to think I didn't do slash either LOL.

I could see reasons for both leading to higher stats, just like you said. I think the sweet spot is probably a newer, but growing fandom or an established fandom that sees a lot of "new blood" cycle in. So in order to have higher stats, we need some new BSB fans (or a time machine to go back to 1996, but that seems less likely). If Mariah Carey has taught me anything, it's that lots of people like catchy and well sung Christmas music, lol. Now we wait.

I have noticed younger (like late teens/early twenties) fans popping up lately!  Actually, the only one who is consistently commenting on my MBK is a younger fan, and this is the first story of mine she has followed (or at least left feedback on as I was writing it).  So there is hope!  I'm not sure if the new music of the DNA era has attracted new fans, or if it's the 90s nostalgia trend making them cool in a vintage way to the Gen Z kids.  Either way, good for them!

I'm surprised it's that late! I thought for sure it was when I was in middle school. I could see banning lists, but I wonder why the other three? I never understood why they banned RPF either. Like I know their reasons, but plenty of other places didn't and nothing's happened.

Yeah, I agree.  If certain celebrities had that big a problem with people writing fanfic about them, they could request that category be removed, but I doubt most of them know or care that much about it.

That's me, lol. It's easier now that I'll just write whatever when the mood strikes. I think a mystery is a good story to craft an outline with, because you do need to follow exact threads to a T. Do you think you would have had an outline for Broken if you hadn't made one at the end of You'll Never Walk Alone?

Maybe, because I had also started collaborating on Code Blue in between YNWA and Broken, which also had an outline, but then, would we have done an outline for CB if I hadn't done one for YNWA?  I had written two other stories with the same author, and we never used an outline before.  But I remember thinking that if I was going to write another cancer story, I better step up my game and make it good... so I tried to act more like a "serious writer" with my outlining and research, and it really did help raise the quality of my writing.

I always wonder if people love or hate author's notes, lol. Like, do they actually want to have a conversation with me about the story? My update thread says no, haha. But that might have been different if that was how I structured my update thread in 2006-2008 during PBox's initial run. I've been doing them mostly for "here's a fun callback to PBox in this chapter, you can reread the original moment in x chapter." I've always done one at the beginning and the end of a whole story. Though having a "story notes" section now helps with the beginning one.

I like learning behind-the-scenes stuff about stories.  I love author's notes in published fiction.  Besides yours, I don't see too many of those in fanfic, but I'm fine with them.  I don't usually do lengthy author's notes mid-story, but I'm actually am planning to post one tomorrow with my MBK update that tells where the idea for it came from.  I'm not sure how many people actually read them, but sometimes I feel the need to explain myself.  They are fun to write!

I enjoyed it too. Hubs was rewatching it this time last year and it was fun to revisit. Of course we can! We're jacks of all trades, really. I appreciate and enjoy your use of hyperbole here. Interesting! I didn't think they actually flagged people's purchases, but that would make it easier to identify people if need be.

It's a great show to binge watch and definitely holds up on rewatches.  Yeah, they have some kind of database where they can track who's buying way more Sudafed than one person should need.  That's why you have to show your license now to get it from behind the pharmacy counter.  It's a pain in the ass, but worth it when you actually need it.

You're right, it probably is Thursdays, lol. Great work! I did write a little this morning, then got hungry this evening and couldn't focus. Now I'm hoping to get back into it, but it's already 8:30. We'll see what happens.

Was your picking up midsentence productive?

LOL No.  I'm in the same boat as you.  I opened the story (it's still open, actually), but then I got distracted by Nick getting on Twitch, then getting off again five minutes later to go help Lauren with the baby and promising to be back in 15 minutes... then 30... and then I got hungry and wandered away from the computer, and now I'm too tired and have a headache.  But I'll finish that sentence tomorrow morning for sure! LOL  Good luck writing more tonight!  I'm probably going to bed soon.

[nicksgal]

Yeah, there used to be a lot of AJ fans around here.  I think it boils down to Nick being the favorite, but I'm sure there's something to him being more versatile as a character too.

Well hey, maybe I should start posting SAMS!  I meant to post SAMS last summer or fall, but after I posted its one-shot predecessor, Unsuspecting Sunday, and it got zero response, I held off, thinking if no one wanted to read a Nowie one-shot, they're definitely not going to want to read an 80-chapter Nowie novel.  Maybe I'll get around to it this summer.

I wouldn't be opposed to writing an angsty Frick/Frack slash - if I ever wrote another slash, it probably would be Frick/Frack - but I don't do kinky.  But hey... I used to think I didn't do slash either LOL.

And they were all really active here on the forums too. It was nice talking about some things that didn't involve Nick every now and again, lol. You're right, it probably has nothing to do with him being a great character and more to do with his regular following, lol.

There's always someone who will read it! That's part of the beauty of fanfic. I wonder if the longer one would be more popular than the shorter one? More Nowie to enjoy? When you re-post your older fanfics, what do you do? Chapter every day? Chunks on a certain day?

Just make one of them have a medical fetish of some sort. Boom! In your wheelhouse and kinky, lol.

I have noticed younger (like late teens/early twenties) fans popping up lately!  Actually, the only one who is consistently commenting on my MBK is a younger fan, and this is the first story of mine she has followed (or at least left feedback on as I was writing it).  So there is hope!  I'm not sure if the new music of the DNA era has attracted new fans, or if it's the 90s nostalgia trend making them cool in a vintage way to the Gen Z kids.  Either way, good for them!

That's awesome! Now we just have to convince them to write fanfics, lol. I'm glad you have a brand new follower (or a less shy follower). Maybe it's a bit of both? Happy our Boys were able to bridge the age gap. I wonder if younger fans have favorites or if they just like the group collectively?

Yeah, I agree.  If certain celebrities had that big a problem with people writing fanfic about them, they could request that category be removed, but I doubt most of them know or care that much about it.

I feel like if they know, they try to avoid thinking about it too much, lol.

Maybe, because I had also started collaborating on Code Blue in between YNWA and Broken, which also had an outline, but then, would we have done an outline for CB if I hadn't done one for YNWA?  I had written two other stories with the same author, and we never used an outline before.  But I remember thinking that if I was going to write another cancer story, I better step up my game and make it good... so I tried to act more like a "serious writer" with my outlining and research, and it really did help raise the quality of my writing.

So you were very much into outlining by the time Broken came around! I think having some sort of plan, whether that's an outline or something else, is important when writing with other people, that way everyone is on the same page. I get wanting to make sure that your "another x story" needs to stand out in quality from the ones before it, so it makes sense that research would be the key there. As a non-outliner (for the most part), I can see it helping in quality too, but I don't want to say it definitely makes a story better (because then what am I doing with my writing 90% of the time? lol) If anything, I'd say I'm a post-outliner, then I can go back and easily remember where I last referenced something or the last time a character dealt with whatever. That's not to say that I have no plan, but... I'd rather just write and see what happens. Nick always changes my plans anyway, lol.

I like learning behind-the-scenes stuff about stories.  I love author's notes in published fiction.  Besides yours, I don't see too many of those in fanfic, but I'm fine with them.  I don't usually do lengthy author's notes mid-story, but I'm actually am planning to post one tomorrow with my MBK update that tells where the idea for it came from.  I'm not sure how many people actually read them, but sometimes I feel the need to explain myself.  They are fun to write!

Me too! That's why I wish more writers shared things like that. It's interesting getting in someone's head. I don't typically add them to the story itself either, but maybe I should start adding truncated ones... Like you said, though, I don't know how many people actually read them either, lol. And ooh, fun! Those ones are great.

It's a great show to binge watch and definitely holds up on rewatches.  Yeah, they have some kind of database where they can track who's buying way more Sudafed than one person should need.  That's why you have to show your license now to get it from behind the pharmacy counter.  It's a pain in the ass, but worth it when you actually need it.

Crazy!

LOL No.  I'm in the same boat as you.  I opened the story (it's still open, actually), but then I got distracted by Nick getting on Twitch, then getting off again five minutes later to go help Lauren with the baby and promising to be back in 15 minutes... then 30... and then I got hungry and wandered away from the computer, and now I'm too tired and have a headache.  But I'll finish that sentence tomorrow morning for sure! LOL  Good luck writing more tonight!  I'm probably going to bed soon.

I wrote 140 words, then was tired, then laid on the couch and started falling asleep, then realized I could just go to bed, lol.

I love how Nick's trying to schedule his job when he has a one month old and two other children. You should know better, Nick, lol.

I hope you finished your sentence this morning!

I think Rose has become more of a planner/outliner, at least partly because of me LOL.  We've always used outlines when we write together.  I wish she'd come weigh in on this!

I meant to comment on this part yesterday and forgot. I think the tired was setting in... But I wish she'd weigh in too! I think our efforts to summon her like Beetlejuice are not working, lol.

And now for Saturday...

How's writing going today? (I'm guessing well since you haven't updated yet.)

I finished my Nick and Brian scenes for this chapter and started the Kevin one, then really wanted to take a shower, then sort of thought about the chapter and switched to my ideas for my next author talk, then came back to write, then wanted lunch, and now I'm here, lol.

Why do I always procrastinate on Kevin scenes? I'm sorry, Kevin! It would be a much shorter novel if I only focused on Nick, lol. I might just go set myself a timer and make myself word sprint and focus on Kevin...

[RokofAges75]

And they were all really active here on the forums too. It was nice talking about some things that didn't involve Nick every now and again, lol. You're right, it probably has nothing to do with him being a great character and more to do with his regular following, lol.

Yeah, while I don't mind talking mostly about Nick, the variety was nice!

There's always someone who will read it! That's part of the beauty of fanfic. I wonder if the longer one would be more popular than the shorter one? More Nowie to enjoy? When you re-post your older fanfics, what do you do? Chapter every day? Chunks on a certain day?

Yeah maybe.  It would at least get noticed more by being among the recently updated stories for longer.  I try to post a chapter a day of the older ones because they're so long that if I only did a chapter a week, they would take over a year to post.  I don't see the point of drawing them out that long when anyone who wants to read them for the first time could just browse on over to my site or AC and read the rest at any time.

Just make one of them have a medical fetish of some sort. Boom! In your wheelhouse and kinky, lol.

LOL Now there's an idea.  Which one do you think is more likely to have a medical fetish?  Nick seems to have an interest in medical science and technology lately (before he switched to cryptocurrency, anyway), but I feel like Brian could have some secret kinks we don't know about.

That's awesome! Now we just have to convince them to write fanfics, lol. I'm glad you have a brand new follower (or a less shy follower). Maybe it's a bit of both? Happy our Boys were able to bridge the age gap. I wonder if younger fans have favorites or if they just like the group collectively?

I dunno... all I know is the younger fan giving me feedback seems to be a Nick girl and does not like Brian.  So maybe they do still have favorites.

I feel like if they know, they try to avoid thinking about it too much, lol.

LOL Yes, exactly.  Much like "Don't Google yourself."

So you were very much into outlining by the time Broken came around! I think having some sort of plan, whether that's an outline or something else, is important when writing with other people, that way everyone is on the same page. I get wanting to make sure that your "another x story" needs to stand out in quality from the ones before it, so it makes sense that research would be the key there. As a non-outliner (for the most part), I can see it helping in quality too, but I don't want to say it definitely makes a story better (because then what am I doing with my writing 90% of the time? lol) If anything, I'd say I'm a post-outliner, then I can go back and easily remember where I last referenced something or the last time a character dealt with whatever. That's not to say that I have no plan, but... I'd rather just write and see what happens. Nick always changes my plans anyway, lol.

Yeah, I guess so.  I had done it for part of two stories, anyway LOL.  I do think outlines of some kind are even more important for a collab.  I don't think it definitely makes a story better; that all depends on the writer and what kind of story it is.  With some stories, I need an outline to keep track of the timeline and how different pieces of the plot are going to fit together.  With others, I could probably just write with a plan in my head like I used to and be fine.  I don't think outlining is the only thing that helped my writing mature; I think reading and researching and life experience and age all helped with that too.

I get what you mean about post-outlining too.  Many of my outlines, especially for my medical dramas and stories that take place in a specific BSB time period, take on the form of a timeline so I can keep track of when things happened... how long it's been since a certain event or when an upcoming event needs to happen.  That is super helpful so I'm not constantly searching back through the story to piece together the timeline.

I love how Nick's trying to schedule his job when he has a one month old and two other children. You should know better, Nick, lol.

LOL I know.  It's nice of him to come on at all.  He eventually did get back on Twitch for about half an hour.

I hope you finished your sentence this morning!

I meant to comment on this part yesterday and forgot. I think the tired was setting in... But I wish she'd weigh in too! I think our efforts to summon her like Beetlejuice are not working, lol.

And now for Saturday...

How's writing going today? (I'm guessing well since you haven't updated yet.)

I finished my Nick and Brian scenes for this chapter and started the Kevin one, then really wanted to take a shower, then sort of thought about the chapter and switched to my ideas for my next author talk, then came back to write, then wanted lunch, and now I'm here, lol.

Why do I always procrastinate on Kevin scenes? I'm sorry, Kevin! It would be a much shorter novel if I only focused on Nick, lol. I might just go set myself a timer and make myself word sprint and focus on Kevin...

I did!  I finished my chapter!  So yes, it was going well, and that's why I didn't update until afternoon.

I'm glad you finished your Nick and Brian scenes!  I would probably procrastinate on Kevin too unless his part was more interesting than theirs.  In my current story, I've been enjoying the Kevin chapters more because his storyline is more interesting to me than Nick's.

Good luck with your word sprint!  I would sprint with you, but I have to get ready.  My mom just retired, so my family's going out to dinner to celebrate tonight!

[nicksgal]

Yeah maybe.  It would at least get noticed more by being among the recently updated stories for longer.  I try to post a chapter a day of the older ones because they're so long that if I only did a chapter a week, they would take over a year to post.  I don't see the point of drawing them out that long when anyone who wants to read them for the first time could just browse on over to my site or AC and read the rest at any time.

I think to really get shorter stories noticed, especially on AO3 where it's part of the culture, you really have to utilize the tags. Which is harder for us that are in the "tags are for genres" camp. I think the more searchable you make it, the easier it is for people to find it. Though I'm thinking now what tags I would use for PBox and all the ones that come to mind are not useful to the story and just me making jokes, like "I once thought it was out of the norm for me to write fluffy romance, has anyone read this?" Or "Nick overreacts to everything in the most animated way!" Or "I chose not to use warnings because I hate spoilers, but y'all are in for a treat." Or "#TeamDark." Or "I will tell you more than you ever wanted to know about this fanfic, just ask!" Or "Nick's name is lovingly 1% of the words painstakingly written in this story," obviously. When realistically, I could probably just tag it "demons," "crazy worldbuilding," "portal fiction," "wordy," and "character development" and all those things are probably more accurate descriptors of the story and my writing style, lol.

Edited to Add: Speaking of tags, I just a story tagged "non-consensual stabbing" and now I'm wondering... isn't most stabbing non-consensual? I think I'd rather know if it was consensual stabbing, lol.

If it's a long one, just updating it regularly would give people time to see it. I think all of our current stories have been on the first page since we started posting them. I did the same thing for PBox, but just posted chunks of 5-10 chapters for seven weeks (plus my holiday story week), which is ironically the exact same amount of time as if I had just posted one chapter per day, which would've given me longer to edit the later chapters, lol. Should have done that. Oh well. Yeah, I don't think something old should take a year or longer to post either. I'm sure people could find our old stuff elsewhere if they really tried to look.

LOL Now there's an idea.  Which one do you think is more likely to have a medical fetish?  Nick seems to have an interest in medical science and technology lately (before he switched to cryptocurrency, anyway), but I feel like Brian could have some secret kinks we don't know about.

Here's my crazy take: Brian has the fetish (as he has some secret kinks for sure), but Nick is fascinated by his fetish due to his interest in medical science, lol. Obviously Nick's fetish is cryptocurrency . If only there was a way to combine the two. Brian buys specialized medical equipment with cryptocurrency? lmao

I dunno... all I know is the younger fan giving me feedback seems to be a Nick girl and does not like Brian.  So maybe they do still have favorites.

Interesting! It's easy to enjoy Nick and he's the most accessible, so I get it. However, this younger fan needs to read some 90's fanfic Brian, because he is a gem! Not that I feel like you write even present day Brian as a total dick, just slightly more flawed.  : DBADLEKYA! Oh, there's guardian angel Nick popping by! lol

LOL Yes, exactly.  Much like "Don't Google yourself."

Sound advice! You know, I haven't googled myself since getting married, but in the past, I was very lucky to share a name with someone much more famous than I, so I never came up unless you deep scrolled, lol.

Yeah, I guess so.  I had done it for part of two stories, anyway LOL.  I do think outlines of some kind are even more important for a collab.  I don't think it definitely makes a story better; that all depends on the writer and what kind of story it is.  With some stories, I need an outline to keep track of the timeline and how different pieces of the plot are going to fit together.  With others, I could probably just write with a plan in my head like I used to and be fine.  I don't think outlining is the only thing that helped my writing mature; I think reading and researching and life experience and age all helped with that too.

An outline is probably hugely important with a timeline and it would definitely make keeping track of what to plan for event-wise in the pacing. I think it's probably a combination of a lot of things, but I'd say all of those are helpful for better writing, especially personal life experience, then there's more background knowledge to draw from and specific feelings or reactions.

I get what you mean about post-outlining too.  Many of my outlines, especially for my medical dramas and stories that take place in a specific BSB time period, take on the form of a timeline so I can keep track of when things happened... how long it's been since a certain event or when an upcoming event needs to happen.  That is super helpful so I'm not constantly searching back through the story to piece together the timeline.

Exactly! I use it for plot elements or character development things for the most part, but I have a general chapter-by-chapter, scene-by-scene outline that I refer to fairly often since I like making callbacks or having someone remember a direct quote.

I can see where a timeline would be helpful for a medical drama, especially if you need something like "recovery from surgery" or "lots of doctor visits." And I've already mentioned how in awe I am of y'all keeping track of BSB time.

LOL I know.  It's nice of him to come on at all.  He eventually did get back on Twitch for about half an hour.

It is. I would totally understand if he took a break from social media for a while.

I did!  I finished my chapter!  So yes, it was going well, and that's why I didn't update until afternoon.

One more chapter done! That's so exciting! Isn't that two this past week? Or is that three now? You're on a roll just in time for summer to hit! One more week! (Unless y'all go past memorial day this year.)

I'm glad you finished your Nick and Brian scenes!  I would probably procrastinate on Kevin too unless his part was more interesting than theirs.  In my current story, I've been enjoying the Kevin chapters more because his storyline is more interesting to me than Nick's.

Good luck with your word sprint!  I would sprint with you, but I have to get ready.  My mom just retired, so my family's going out to dinner to celebrate tonight!

You know, they were all equally interesting, I just wasn't as sure on exact details for Kevin's (having not started writing it at that moment), but I ended up finishing it without the word sprint once I really sat down to write and starting the next chapter! So now I only have eight chapters left to write and so far this chapter is writing itself. I'm still laughing at Nick so much.

Congratulation s to your mom! That's so exciting!  

[RokofAges75]

I think to really get shorter stories noticed, especially on AO3 where it's part of the culture, you really have to utilize the tags. Which is harder for us that are in the "tags are for genres" camp. I think the more searchable you make it, the easier it is for people to find it. Though I'm thinking now what tags I would use for PBox and all the ones that come to mind are not useful to the story and just me making jokes, like "I once thought it was out of the norm for me to write fluffy romance, has anyone read this?" Or "Nick overreacts to everything in the most animated way!" Or "I chose not to use warnings because I hate spoilers, but y'all are in for a treat." Or "#TeamDark." Or "I will tell you more than you ever wanted to know about this fanfic, just ask!" Or "Nick's name is lovingly 1% of the words painstakingly written in this story," obviously. When realistically, I could probably just tag it "demons," "crazy worldbuilding," "portal fiction," "wordy," and "character development" and all those things are probably more accurate descriptors of the story and my writing style, lol.

Edited to Add: Speaking of tags, I just a story tagged "non-consensual stabbing" and now I'm wondering... isn't most stabbing non-consensual? I think I'd rather know if it was consensual stabbing, lol.

Yeah, I think you're right about the tags.  I wondered if I included more tags that revealed more about the subject matter of my stories (like "Cancer" for Curtain Call), would it attract more readers?  But then I tried searching by said topics, and there are literally no other BSB stories (or very few, in some cases) with that tag.  The best I found was "hospitals" or "medical" - there are 23 and 13 BSB stories for those tags, respectively.  I just don't think my kind of drama - or fantasy - or longfics in general - are popular there.  And that's okay.  At least it allows the few people who do read to leave reviews.

It would be interesting to do an experiment with the same story posted twice, once with everything tagged and once with nothing but the bare minimum, and see if there's a drastic difference in the response it gets.  But I'm not sure how one would do that without spamming by posting the same story twice.

I did look under Additional Tags in the Sort By box to see what came up, and it looks like the most popular tags among BSB stories are:

Romance (130)
Drama (127)
Alternate Universe (124)
Anal Sex (122)
Angst (112)
Oral Sex (72)
Sex (68)
Hurt/Comfort (66)
Fluff (63)
Slash (52)

That about says it all right there... genres and sex.  Lots of sex LOL.

Edited to Add: Speaking of tags, I just a story tagged "non-consensual stabbing" and now I'm wondering... isn't most stabbing non-consensual? I think I'd rather know if it was consensual stabbing, lol.

There's a fetish for everything, so maybe some people like being stabbed?  When I was researching choppage for Broken back in the day, I learned that there are not only amputee fetishists, but there are also people that want to BE an amputee and will go so far as to beg doctors to cut off limbs or hurt themselves to make it happen.  So I guess there could be such a thing as consensual stabbing, crazy as it sounds LOL.

Here's my crazy take: Brian has the fetish (as he has some secret kinks for sure), but Nick is fascinated by his fetish due to his interest in medical science, lol. Obviously Nick's fetish is cryptocurrency . If only there was a way to combine the two. Brian buys specialized medical equipment with cryptocurrency? lmao

LOL!  Having written a story about medical fetishes somewhat recently, I'm going to stay far away from that one for now.  Also, there are zero BSB fics with the "Medical Kink" tag, so I don't know that that would even help.  Maybe I'll just start tagging all my stories with "Anal Sex" instead.

Interesting! It's easy to enjoy Nick and he's the most accessible, so I get it. However, this younger fan needs to read some 90's fanfic Brian, because he is a gem! Not that I feel like you write even present day Brian as a total dick, just slightly more flawed.  : DBADLEKYA! Oh, there's guardian angel Nick popping by! lol

I know, it's sad that these young ones didn't get to enjoy Brian at his peak.  I could never write Brian as a total dick because I don't see him that way.  I just don't see him as a perfect angel anymore either.  But that has probably actually been good for my writing because it gives Brian more character flaws and a different perspective from the other boys.  In my current story, his belief in God and miracles and the power of prayer has kept him in denial about something that the other guys have accepted, which has caused some tension.  But he would probably listen to whatever Guardian Angel Nick says.  "INAOYA!"

Exactly! I use it for plot elements or character development things for the most part, but I have a general chapter-by-chapter, scene-by-scene outline that I refer to fairly often since I like making callbacks or having someone remember a direct quote.

I can see where a timeline would be helpful for a medical drama, especially if you need something like "recovery from surgery" or "lots of doctor visits." And I've already mentioned how in awe I am of y'all keeping track of BSB time.

Yep, I have started doing more of the chapter-by-chapter outline as I go, too.  For MBK, I try to plan chapter by chapter a few chapters ahead, and then I just have a list of general ideas and events I want to include later in the story that I add to the chapter-by-chapter outline as they come up.

The most elaborate timeline I ever had was for Curtain Call, in terms of keeping track of a treatment schedule and an entire leg of the This is Us tour.

I was just looking back at some of my old outlines as I was writing this.  I keep them all even after I finish the story.  I have all of them from BMS on; I lost Broken's outline when my laptop died in college.  Anyway, looking back at some of the old ones, I realize they have gotten much more organized over time.  My MBK outline is nicely organized with bolded headings and bullet points and even a couple of tables.  My BMS outline is a hot mess.  It starts with a 19-page list of ideas, which include things like:
Jacuzzi -> sex
Gamecube fun
Nick goes to Cali, meets up with guys – cute parts here
Nick and Aaron part

Then I started keeping track of what happened in each chapter at Chapter 89, and that continues until the end.  Then there's a timeline that spans almost five years.  Then some random notes about the characters.  The whole outline is 30 pages long LOL.  My outlining skills have definitely gotten better over the years.

One more chapter done! That's so exciting! Isn't that two this past week? Or is that three now? You're on a roll just in time for summer to hit! One more week! (Unless y'all go past memorial day this year.)

I guess technically this was my second chapter finished this week, since I finished the Nick one I was having a hard time with on Sunday or Monday... I don't even remember now.  This latest one went a lot better!

Nope, Friday's my last day, so I'm definitely heading into summer with some momentum.  I love that because I usually spend the first week or two of June battling WADD as I try to get back into the writing groove.  That shouldn't be a problem for me this year.

You know, they were all equally interesting, I just wasn't as sure on exact details for Kevin's (having not started writing it at that moment), but I ended up finishing it without the word sprint once I really sat down to write and starting the next chapter! So now I only have eight chapters left to write and so far this chapter is writing itself. I'm still laughing at Nick so much.

Congratulation s to your mom! That's so exciting! 

Good!  You're so close to the end!!  I'm glad you're having fun with it tonight.

Thanks!

[nicksgal]

Yeah, I think you're right about the tags.  I wondered if I included more tags that revealed more about the subject matter of my stories (like "Cancer" for Curtain Call), would it attract more readers?  But then I tried searching by said topics, and there are literally no other BSB stories (or very few, in some cases) with that tag.  The best I found was "hospitals" or "medical" - there are 23 and 13 BSB stories for those tags, respectively.  I just don't think my kind of drama - or fantasy - or longfics in general - are popular there.  And that's okay.  At least it allows the few people who do read to leave reviews.

I don't know. We've talked about the spoilery nature of it, so the part of me that doesn't like spoilers says you should not tag it "cancer," but yes, if people were looking for BSB cancer stories, it would be easier to find if it were tagged. Pros and cons.

It seems like these days novel-length fanfics just aren't the norm in general, especially on AO3. And the ones that are there aren't updated regularly. Now I cannot judge people who write novel-length fanfics and don't update regularly as... well, I took a six month hiatus once four chapters from the end, so... that would be the pot calling the kettle black, lol. And I think the last year of updating was spent on twenty chapters where I probably updated twice in once week and then not at all for a month and half, so... Can't judge them at all. Really writing ahead has saved me from my own bad habits, lol. On your "or fantasy" note, I don't know that fantasy is popular in BSB fanfic land anywhere, lol. It's cool. Unlike in the past where I hated being lumped in with Sci-Fi, I'll cozy up to it and we'll have a rad party that you're all invited to with swords, dragons, and mythical tech! lol

It would be interesting to do an experiment with the same story posted twice, once with everything tagged and once with nothing but the bare minimum, and see if there's a drastic difference in the response it gets.  But I'm not sure how one would do that without spamming by posting the same story twice.

I think you'd have to make the summary different so people don't notice it's two versions of the same story? That or post a few chapters of SAMS as you would normally tag and track the engagement over a couple weeks or so, then add all the other tags and see if there's a spike in engagement after the tags are added. Happy to make you a spreadsheet, lol.

I did look under Additional Tags in the Sort By box to see what came up, and it looks like the most popular tags among BSB stories are:

Romance (130)
Drama (127)
Alternate Universe (124)
Anal Sex (122)
Angst (112)
Oral Sex (72)
Sex (68)
Hurt/Comfort (66)
Fluff (63)
Slash (52)

That about says it all right there... genres and sex.  Lots of sex LOL.

The top three are genres! It's not all sex, lol. There's probably crossover in some of those too and the numbers for "slash" are probably not accurate given the number of "anal sex" tags, lol.

There's a fetish for everything, so maybe some people like being stabbed?  When I was researching choppage for Broken back in the day, I learned that there are not only amputee fetishists, but there are also people that want to BE an amputee and will go so far as to beg doctors to cut off limbs or hurt themselves to make it happen.  So I guess there could be such a thing as consensual stabbing, crazy as it sounds LOL.

Oh, I know. I did actually start writing that as "I'm wondering if there's consensual stabbing," but then I thought, well sure, there's probably consensual stabbing? And then my bigger question was if the majority of stabbing was non-consensual, like I assumed, or not, lol. I did know that there were amputee fetishists, actually; I've heard some horror stories from a friend. I did not know that people would beg doctors to cut off their limbs though, but I'm hoping that the doctors did not follow through on that request unless it was medically necessary.

LOL!  Having written a story about medical fetishes somewhat recently, I'm going to stay far away from that one for now.  Also, there are zero BSB fics with the "Medical Kink" tag, so I don't know that that would even help.  Maybe I'll just start tagging all my stories with "Anal Sex" instead.

Nothing says you can't have a medical kink and enjoy anal sex! Really, you'd be doing readers a service if you included and tagged both in this hypothetical Frick/Frack medical kink story, then it would be easier to find. 

I know, it's sad that these young ones didn't get to enjoy Brian at his peak.  I could never write Brian as a total dick because I don't see him that way.  I just don't see him as a perfect angel anymore either.  But that has probably actually been good for my writing because it gives Brian more character flaws and a different perspective from the other boys.  In my current story, his belief in God and miracles and the power of prayer has kept him in denial about something that the other guys have accepted, which has caused some tension.  But he would probably listen to whatever Guardian Angel Nick says.  "INAOYA!"

I don't see him as a total dick either, just someone with some very different political views from me. And character flaws and different perspectives lead to character growth opportunities for everyone in fictionland (and in real life, I guess), so I think it's better with have a new perspective on Brian's full character. Unless we're Mare. Mare always knew. Ooh, fascinating! I really need to catch up on my fanfic reading, I've just been very focused on finishing PNecklace and not wanting to fall too far astray from it.

I'm having a moment where I can't remember what "INAOYA" is... Help! lol I'd listen to Guardian Angel Nick too, he's got good points and neat tricks!

Yep, I have started doing more of the chapter-by-chapter outline as I go, too.  For MBK, I try to plan chapter by chapter a few chapters ahead, and then I just have a list of general ideas and events I want to include later in the story that I add to the chapter-by-chapter outline as they come up.

I usually do at the end, especially now with the divergent plotlines. I saw another picture of Charlie and the strings today with the caption "how I outline" versus "how other people outline" with a picture of an organized document and it hit a little too close to home, lol. I had been following my outline accurately, but I added a scene today and it was 100% worth it.

The most elaborate timeline I ever had was for Curtain Call, in terms of keeping track of a treatment schedule and an entire leg of the This is Us tour.

I'm imaging how difficult that would be for real Nick while on tour! Did he fly back to his regular doctor every time? I can't imagine he'd have one in every city, that would make even less sense. Those frequent flier miles he would rack up!

I was just looking back at some of my old outlines as I was writing this.  I keep them all even after I finish the story.  I have all of them from BMS on; I lost Broken's outline when my laptop died in college.  Anyway, looking back at some of the old ones, I realize they have gotten much more organized over time.  My MBK outline is nicely organized with bolded headings and bullet points and even a couple of tables.  My BMS outline is a hot mess.  It starts with a 19-page list of ideas, which include things like:
Jacuzzi -> sex
Gamecube fun
Nick goes to Cali, meets up with guys – cute parts here
Nick and Aaron part

Then I started keeping track of what happened in each chapter at Chapter 89, and that continues until the end.  Then there's a timeline that spans almost five years.  Then some random notes about the characters.  The whole outline is 30 pages long LOL.  My outlining skills have definitely gotten better over the years.

LMAO! I love all of your notes, especially "jacuzzi --> sex" and "cute parts here." This sounds more like how I outline, except I don't think any of it has ever gotten to 30 pages... Though I do keep them in Google Keep with each note labeled about the subject. So it's more like "Character Arcs" then a list of each major character and the overall theme of their arc. And nothing else. I think there's a few times I wrote unrelated ramblings, but they're a couple of sentences at most.

Bolded headings and tables are much more organized than random musings, but I think there's value to random musings too. I say, whatever works for the story. Also BMS was 200 chapters long, so it makes sense that it would have 30 pages of outlining and ideas.

I guess technically this was my second chapter finished this week, since I finished the Nick one I was having a hard time with on Sunday or Monday... I don't even remember now.  This latest one went a lot better!

Nope, Friday's my last day, so I'm definitely heading into summer with some momentum.  I love that because I usually spend the first week or two of June battling WADD as I try to get back into the writing groove.  That shouldn't be a problem for me this year.

One chapter in five or six days! Awesome! Glad it went better than the Nick one! Your sick days really helped out. I love those ones where you're just sick enough where you would be unproductive at work, but you can still do little things around the house. Obviously I'd rather not be sick, but in the scale of being sick, those ones are good.

I wonder how much you'll crank out without WADD. I hope that means you'll be really productive!

Good!  You're so close to the end!!  I'm glad you're having fun with it tonight.

I know, it's crazy! It was fun, but my dinner getting delivered derailed me; it's my fault for watching tv while eating.

My Saturdays have been less productive this month and my Sundays have been really productive, so I'm hoping that maybe that means tomorrow will be crazy productive if I already had a good Saturday.

[RokofAges75]

I don't know. We've talked about the spoilery nature of it, so the part of me that doesn't like spoilers says you should not tag it "cancer," but yes, if people were looking for BSB cancer stories, it would be easier to find if it were tagged. Pros and cons.

It seems like these days novel-length fanfics just aren't the norm in general, especially on AO3. And the ones that are there aren't updated regularly. Now I cannot judge people who write novel-length fanfics and don't update regularly as... well, I took a six month hiatus once four chapters from the end, so... that would be the pot calling the kettle black, lol. And I think the last year of updating was spent on twenty chapters where I probably updated twice in once week and then not at all for a month and half, so... Can't judge them at all. Really writing ahead has saved me from my own bad habits, lol. On your "or fantasy" note, I don't know that fantasy is popular in BSB fanfic land anywhere, lol. It's cool. Unlike in the past where I hated being lumped in with Sci-Fi, I'll cozy up to it and we'll have a rad party that you're all invited to with swords, dragons, and mythical tech! lol

Yeah, that's my issue with those kinds of tags too.  I hate spoilers.  This is why we just need to enjoy writing for ourselves, and if anyone else wants to read our stuff, bonus!

I've been there with the regular updates in the beginning, followed by months of no updates when life gets too busy.  Writing ahead and hoarding chapters has really helped me too.

I think you'd have to make the summary different so people don't notice it's two versions of the same story? That or post a few chapters of SAMS as you would normally tag and track the engagement over a couple weeks or so, then add all the other tags and see if there's a spike in engagement after the tags are added. Happy to make you a spreadsheet, lol.

That's probably the way to go if I want to try it - start with normal tags and then add on later and see if it makes a difference.

The top three are genres! It's not all sex, lol. There's probably crossover in some of those too and the numbers for "slash" are probably not accurate given the number of "anal sex" tags, lol.

Yeah, I'm guessing most of the slash writers don't feel the need to actually include the slash tag because they already have the character tag that implies it's a slash, like Nick Carter/Brian Littrell.  The anal sex tag is also a giveaway LOL.

Nothing says you can't have a medical kink and enjoy anal sex! Really, you'd be doing readers a service if you included and tagged both in this hypothetical Frick/Frack medical kink story, then it would be easier to find. 

LOL Very true.

I don't see him as a total dick either, just someone with some very different political views from me. And character flaws and different perspectives lead to character growth opportunities for everyone in fictionland (and in real life, I guess), so I think it's better with have a new perspective on Brian's full character. Unless we're Mare. Mare always knew. Ooh, fascinating! I really need to catch up on my fanfic reading, I've just been very focused on finishing PNecklace and not wanting to fall too far astray from it.

I'm having a moment where I can't remember what "INAOYA" is... Help! lol I'd listen to Guardian Angel Nick too, he's got good points and neat tricks!

Yes, same.  We may not agree politically, but I still love him as a person.  I just don't love everything about him.

INAOYA = "I'm not afraid of you anymore!"  I was just trying to think of what else Nick says in that scene LOL.

I usually do at the end, especially now with the divergent plotlines. I saw another picture of Charlie and the strings today with the caption "how I outline" versus "how other people outline" with a picture of an organized document and it hit a little too close to home, lol. I had been following my outline accurately, but I added a scene today and it was 100% worth it.

Outlines should be flexible!  I change and add stuff in mine too.

I'm imaging how difficult that would be for real Nick while on tour! Did he fly back to his regular doctor every time? I can't imagine he'd have one in every city, that would make even less sense. Those frequent flier miles he would rack up!

Yeah... you'd have to read the story to see how he did it, because that was a big part of the story.

LMAO! I love all of your notes, especially "jacuzzi --> sex" and "cute parts here." This sounds more like how I outline, except I don't think any of it has ever gotten to 30 pages... Though I do keep them in Google Keep with each note labeled about the subject. So it's more like "Character Arcs" then a list of each major character and the overall theme of their arc. And nothing else. I think there's a few times I wrote unrelated ramblings, but they're a couple of sentences at most.

Bolded headings and tables are much more organized than random musings, but I think there's value to random musings too. I say, whatever works for the story. Also BMS was 200 chapters long, so it makes sense that it would have 30 pages of outlining and ideas.

Yeah, absolutely.  I have evolved to writing more in complete sentences, but when I look back at that BMS outline, I can still make sense of most of that stuff and remember what part of the story it refers to, so it definitely still worked for me.  It's fine for an outline to be a rambling mess because no one sees it except you.

One chapter in five or six days! Awesome! Glad it went better than the Nick one! Your sick days really helped out. I love those ones where you're just sick enough where you would be unproductive at work, but you can still do little things around the house. Obviously I'd rather not be sick, but in the scale of being sick, those ones are good.

I wonder how much you'll crank out without WADD. I hope that means you'll be really productive!

Agreed, those are the best kind of sick days!  Sometimes it is nice to be a little bit sick because it gives you an excuse to stay home and do nothing except what you feel like.  I'm usually not super productive when I'm sick, but every once in a while it seems to help.  I wrote my first pandaskunk story in 2012 over the course of a couple sick days and a weekend when I had the flu and was in some sort of delirious fever- or drug-induced state of heightened creativity.

I know, it's crazy! It was fun, but my dinner getting delivered derailed me; it's my fault for watching tv while eating.

My Saturdays have been less productive this month and my Sundays have been really productive, so I'm hoping that maybe that means tomorrow will be crazy productive if I already had a good Saturday.

Ugh, I do the same thing, and it usually derails me too.  Last night I was going to try to get started on my next chapter, but I watched SNL and went to bed instead.

I'm with you on Saturdays vs. Sundays too.  Of course I like Saturdays better, but Sundays have been more productive for me.  Not so much today, but finishing a chapter is usually easier than starting a new one.  I did start my Nick chapter and wrote 700 some words before I took a break... hoping to add some more this afternoon.  I hope you're having a productive day!